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House | May 6, 2015 | Committee Room | Commerce and Job Development

Full MP3 Audio File

Okay we're going to go ahead and we call the commerce committee. In order we want to recognize our sergeant at arms today. We have Young Bey[ Bill Morris, Jane Marian, and Corey Brinson thank you so much first serving. We have our pages today Sophie from Wake county sponsored by Representative Jacqueline Shaper, we have Cody Moore from North Hampton sponsored by Michael Ray and we have Julius [xx] from [xx] sponsored by Sarah Stevens, and we have Charity big terms county and whole county sponsored by representative Brady. Thank you so much Okay and we have Senator Brown yes you are up. Thank you Madam Chairman, let's see this one is pretty straight forward what the bill does is it will require corporations, insurance companies and limited liability companies, to include information on the number of veterans thy employ in annual report to the Secretary of State. The bill also directs the Secretary of State to compile and publish summary information about the number of veterans employed in the state by this corporations and LOC's on its websites on and before October one of each year. I've worked with the Secretary of state office may probably have someone here today and have the okay with the bill. This came out of the Military Affairs Commission to really, I think, try to promote how many veterans in the state are being employed by include the state in trying to make it a priority to capture some of those military personnel that are getting out of the service and trying to keep them in the state as employees. Okay we have some representatives who have got questions. Representative Shepherd.  Thanks Mrs. Chair Senator Brown I appreciate you bringing the bill forward to us, and the question I have and was brought to me and I'll ask you and you would respond to i. T Do you think we need to include any appropriation for sectors that resolve us to initiate this program [xx]. We're going to share Mr. Arnold from the Department had talked to me about this issue and we had discussed it. It's something we'll watch and but I don't think they need it at this point to be quite honest. Okay, Representative Hugo[sp?].  Thank you Mum Chair. Representative Brown I actually want to make rough time I think it's a great bill, appreciate you doing it Okay, more discussion representative Richardson Thank you, Madame Chair my question was in line with representative Shepherd but I also if will this not create a need probably to have people working on this and tile up some of the man power that's already there so you still don't see a need for at least putting some funds there to help this started of initially, and you've answered it but that was my question I would just like for you to consider it when this bill moves forward again, I'll try and stay in contact with the department and see how this plays out if that becomes an issue then we'll try to address it Thank you Representative Abeler Thank you Madame Chair, my issue also involves but I'm not looking at it from the side of the state government I'm looking at it the side of business, if we're going to include everybody in this that's going to mean time away, and also I've got this funky issue every time we want to start helping people in the state, we have to gather information and stick it somewhere and I have issues, in terms of gathering data in order to help people in there some way around that in the sense that we can accomplish the same thing without increasing the size of our database, and possibly incurring cost on the side a business? Representative Abeler, I'm one of those businesses I have about 120 employees so I understand that concern, and I thought through that and to be quite [xx] should be pretty simple process, it's just a matter of counting how many employees you've got [xx] and submitting a report I just can't imagine that, that can take much more than a few minutes to do, and I just don't see how

it's going to be that [xx] to handle. A follow up on that if I may because when I looked at the information that you wanted to gather you are going to have to spend some time getting the information from the veteran of when he served, how he served, and things of that nature, is that still something that you feel like is going to be handled easily through, starting to work issue, or point, or exactly how do you envision any company say you've got 120, there're some companies in this state that has several thousand, so how are we differentiating? Or are we differentiating? And are we burdening some and not others. You know again I just think this is important information, the basis in this stage are very, very important, what it means to our economy I don't think I've got to tell anybody, the process now that's going on in Washington would cut back particularly in the military, I'd say all of our bases are under some kind of stress to either be reduced or in some cases possibly eliminated, so any information that we can get to help protect those bases I think is important, I think this is just a small piece employers can add to help us protect those basis, I know  I can but we never hear about it, but we're losing about 7000 marines in Camp Missouri in the Jacksonville area nobody talks about it, it's not on the front page of news and business goes out and 300 jobs are laid and that's front page news, almost 7000 jobs and nobody says anything so that's just how vital some of this information is. Pardon me, I have a different instead of the state gathering information, could businesses not go o the military and notify them that we won't our veterans kind of like recruiters come to college when you get ready to graduate. That's already taking place Representative Abler. That's going on through out many communities. Representative Hoe. Thank you Madam Chairman the senator Brown I appreciate the bill coming forward and just want to ask the issue about contracting any veterans who provide contracting services and whether or not there is something that may be helpful to be captured maybe not in this bill but sometime down the road and one follow up. Follow up. Again federal business in this state, they will have to provide that information just like any business, so I think you will get some of their information that you are referring to. Follow up madam Chairman, and also as they put this together this is going to be a form, it may be in the other self, but it is just a specific form that is going developed by the secretary state someone to solicit  this information. I think those details still will have to be worked up, but that's what I envision as a form of some time. Representative Boles, no question, okay, Representative Floyd This may be for the bill sponsor or the staff out there. On line, on page two line 27 it has E the following definition apply to this section and on page three I'm sorry on page one continue over to page two. It list the definition and then page two, line 27 it does the same thing so is that somewhat, why is that. It has E and then it has the definition listed twice is there a reason for that? I'll let staff maybe answer that one but.   Yeah Madam Chairman and representative Floyd to answer your question this bill would pertain to corporations which are governed under section 55-16 of the general statute, and also appkies to limited liability companies which are tackle 57D and so we had her do conforming changes under both sections of the statute so it is intentional. Follow up. Follow up. And e on line 47. Representative Floyd again for

the same reason those definitions for a number of full time equivalent employees and qualifying service and veterans are just carried through our both sections of the statute to provide clarification and information to folks who will be having to comply. I think it's a good bill senator let me say that, but I'm just wondering e is set aside on line 47 when it closes to that is on line seven, just a question. Okay representative Brian Brown. Thank you Madam chair senators welcome to the house hope you are doing well. Thank you for the bill and I understand where you are coming from on this and I guess 30000 [xx]. I support but to a degree I do have some heart burn over it I do not, as a small business owner of myself I don't see where this will motivate me to hire additional veterans I hire venders quit frankly because they are hard workers, they have strong values, they bring a different dimension to my organisation. I have the harbor in that is that as a small business I just fundamentally don't want to share any additional data with any government agency as that my hiring practices the ability for them to make assumptions as to why or how I hire that's really where my heart burn comes from I understand what I think trying to accomplish here which is to truly provide a statistical outline as to veterans who remain in the state and create a strong case as to why base needs to stay open and the fundamental needs here in North Carolina I just pay the additional reporting requirements from a small business perspective. I understand fully, Representative [xx] you had another question I did the question I have got kind of goes with Representative Brown and that is if it's just to put out numbers other than the cost that it could not cost to business, my concern is where it may moth are we going to find that some companies don't hire are we going to have to establish quotas or pass down additions to this legislation of requirements of business in the future that would come in a direction we might not envision right now, Representative Amber, that is surely not the intent. Again, it's so competitive right now on base re-alignment, foreclosures are taking place, how your base is viable, compared to a base in another state. We are trying to find a way to make North Carolina as military friendly as possible. And I think these statistics showing that we take care of our veterans, we hire veterans, being able to substantiate that with numbers is another way that North Carolina can hopefully separate itself from a Virginia or South Carolina or Texas that also has strong military presence. I don't see it getting any easier, I see it getting tougher as far as trying to maintain our basis[sp?] for example, Cherry Point right now, you have the depot there, 4000 civilian jobs that is a server threat to Cherry Point right now for that could be closed, and I can tell you what kind of impact it would have on that take in our community Cherry  Point in itself, the 35s were scheduled to arrive in about 2020, so try to find different way to keep them from possibly being closed is a key face Simon Johnson only one run way in Wayne county, a threat for them as well as far as that Airforce base goes. Again this is just a small piece of a bigger piece that we're trying to put together to come up with a plan to protect our bases any way we possibly can because of the impact that they have in East and North Carolina. Follow up. Just sitting here thinking about your answer to the question I ask about the recruitment approach and you said is currently being done. Could wont in a better direction of your bill be to work with business in terms of beefing up that program rather than just waiting for them to send you numbers that they have gathered from hiring and I think as far as perception goes of what North Carolina it's doing for its veterans would look a lot better if it's the businesses going after them in some nebula sort of way forcing the veterans on the businesses.

Again I don't know that this's forcing veterans I businesses this's more for informational material I think to show North Carolina is military friendly and show how we try to put I place ways we can have veterans I know the governor as got a main priority through Comers of hiring veterans that one of his pushes he's working on now many of you know that have skills and I think most business need and want try to put a recruiting effort in place to recruit someone exiting military personnel I think it's important again this's more statics in a part of a bigger plan to try to protect their basis I think it's just answer for our business community I just don't say again I've got 120 employees I don't think it's a big ask of me to provide this information. Very short, it's simply a comment usually when I vote against a really good sounding bill I'd like to given a reason for that. Your statement that we want to show that North Carolina is a business friendly state to the military I feel like could be implemented in a much more open way beef up your recruitment every time a veteran gets hired make a personnel play it up that way I don't a bunch of statistics on a page is going to make a lot of difference to a number of people primarily some businesses that don't hire, are not interested in improving their statistical numbers or anything of that nature and I just have issues with that particular approach anyway. We'll make a difference as department of defense when they're deciding on what basis to close those types of stats do make a difference when they make those decisions. Representative Brady. Thank you senator, I'm looking on page three line number nine when you define veterans an of course young forces, army, navy, air force, marine and coast guard but then you go on further and you say a commissioned officer in the public health service in my environmental science service administration or the National oceanic and atmosphere goes ministration. Could you tell me that they don't seem to fit and maybe you can explain why you included those in the definition of veteran. To be honest I'll ask Duff because the definition was something I didn't really work on is something I think has been in place for a while so I'll ask Stanford for that one. Representative Broody I can't speak to the reason why those entities were included but I can tell you my own the Public Health Service is a part of the commissioned service. I can certainly look into NOA and the Environmental Science Services and administration if that is of concern to the senator. Representative Sanberg. Thank Mr. Chairman, Senator Brown good to see you today as always. I like you bill and I realize how unfortunate military is to those of us in the East. They reign supreme and we need to do whatever we can to ensure that we can keep their presence here. I'm inclined to for this school, but I have a couple of questions for you. Number one, are there any other states that are doing this? That would be my first question, and I would follow that up with as to whether you personally might think that, in terms of recruiting other businesses to come to North Carolina, if this could be something that might turn them off. Could you address both of those for me Sir, please? I feel pretty certain other states are doing it, and I think it will probably help recruit other businesses because in my opinion it shows what type of workforce we have as a state. The skills that these military personnel have when they exit the military, those skills are hard to find, getting harder and harder to find. So I think it's a recruiting tool, not a detriment. OK, Representative Horne. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Senator Brown, I'm very pleased with this I want to tell my colleagues why I'm pleased with this bill. First of all I understand the fight, the fight is to keep our military strong and in North Carolina. I understand the concerns about small business but small business is going to be hurt a whole lot more if we lose some of this basis than if we keep them. [xx] I understand the concern about a camel's nose under the tent, we talk about that a lot but I'm looking at this bill as, as to it's purpose is to keep military in North Carolina. They are great resource for our small business employees as well as customers, as Representative Brown said that it's critical, that veterans represents are stable from the standpoint of generally, socially stable they are hard working, they are well trained, they are motivated, they are good employees we need to keep them here they are great asset to any small business in particular to all business in general. We need to be able to make a case to this folks in Washington are making the decisions, now we here in the legislature consistently ask for well, give me the debt[sp?], give me this statistics, show me some proof about the impact of these data or the other. The purpose of this bill is to gather that data so it seems to me it's in the best interest of businesses to participate because they are going to help keep good customers and good employees right here in North Carolina. It's good not just for the Eastern part of the State, this is good for the entire State of North Carolina it's going to put tax money in our coffers, it's going to put quality service on the street, and in business, and it's going to help us retain these people over a long period of time if we lose some of these basis, some of these qualified people such as Cherrypoint in particular, we lose these people, we are going to be in a bad position. We got to do everything I think most small businesses understand that this plays right to that. We need this information so we can make our case, so I urge my colleagues to support this bill. Thank you Thank you. Representative Yorber Okay. Representative Rob Brian Thank you madam chair, thank you senator and frankly I'm inclined to as Representative Horne nicely said it to support this, I did want to ask just on the penalty side and maybe related to Representative Brown's concerns, have we thought about either just making this a good faith effort or even voluntary cause I imagine that most folks would gladly put it on especially to highlight that they have veterans and I think we'll probably collect the bulk of the data from a voluntary process and maybe staff can confirm what exactly is the penalty because I could see a good thing business senator saying why even in your case, senator if you [xx] I think I have got 10 guys who've marked it you may not be defendant about that number and you have employees coming in and out can anyone maybe address that question for me. I'll understand. Of the top of my head Representative Brian I don't have the answer to you but I'm happy to format for you. I'm not sure there's a penalty at this point so. Representative Soca. Thank you Madam Chair, originally I had intended on speaking because voice impaired today, so I keep my comments short. I probably have a very unique perspective on this because in the former life I was the operation officer for the United States formerly  recruiting command and had interface on a daily and weekly basis with the Department of the Army office of personnel I think so. I've got more than a passing knowledge of how these decisions are made in the Pentagon. First of all to Representatives Brody's question on the definition of [xx] comes straight from federal definitions, don't ask me to quote which one it is but that's where it comes from. Addressing Representatives Avila's  concern about recruiting. There are already multiple recruiting efforts that are now happening in before I can't loss on the other parts and we've got community colleges involved in that. We've got the department of veteran affairs here, I mean that is massive and on-going. What that never collects though is, how many veterans are actually hired because you can have

this job first and a veteran will show up, and that's it. You don't know the result of that, there is no mechanism to capture that, and the last point I'd like make is that the Senator's is exactly deed on, and Representative Horn said it very well well from the Department of Defense and the department of whatever service it is view in my opinion we have to do every single thing we can to showcase North Carolina as the most veteran-friendly State in the country. It's one thing to say it, it's another thing to back it up with statistics. This will give us statistics to show that. Right now we can say it, but we don't have the stats to show it. When they're making force reduction decisions in the Pentagon, there's lots and lots of factors. That each military service will come up with their recommendations based purely on strategic goals, but then when it gets to the political side of things, our State's been compared to other states, and if we don't have the numbers to back it up and other states do, we're going to be out of luck, and frankly [xxx] you can't afford to hit 6000 people. Fort Bragg, it would be similar to a nuclear bomb going off over Fort Bragg if we lost a brigade out of the 82nd Rider Course Fort Command we need to do every single thing we can to do and if it's a little convenient for a small businessman for the five or ten minutes it takes to collect that, I would hope that every small business person in the state would be willing to put up with that to protect our investment in the military and to keep the military here. Thank you, Representative Adams. Yes my accommodates isn't about the technicalities I want to thank you for this bill. I grew up in a family with a father who flew 28 combat missions over Europe and was shot down and spent 16 months in a drummer prison camp and I just want to say that anything we do to affirm our veterans I will support, and I thank you for this bill. Thank you, Representative Malone. Thank you for the bill, just one quick question that has been texted to me, does this include merchant marines? I don't think it does at this point, probably should. Representative Bradford. Thank you Madame Chair Senator Brown thank you most certainly like everyone I understand the spirit of legislation and general support of others, I will say I'm a small business owner probably like many of us I think I have probably like 40 full time W2 workers and probably another 25 or 30, 1099 workers I'm in an industry that tends to be very heavy with 1099 as in the field of real estate people get licenses and they tend to be independent contractors, I guess my question to you is the legislation specifically talks about employees which I assume as W2 is there any considerations for companies that may have a lower employee count but a higher number of 1099 because 1099 is very much part of the organization and I think has equal merit so the spirit of what you're looking for to show that these folks are gainfully with work. You know that may be something we need to tweet honestly I can seat here thinking through your concerns, I can see it I've tried to make this simple as I can to be quite honest and I hope this ain't a burden and I hope it's something pretty simple because again I have to do it so I surely don't want to be a burden But I do think like Representative Zucker said, I think this information will be important moving forward. Follow up. I'm sorry, thank you, again I agree with you and I appreciate your own estimate to look at that because I fearful have done attended consequences and I can assure you, I've a father and a father-in-law who are military, and I'm not even certain how many employees I've that have a veteran background, we just are out looking for good hard working people, right? And I would not want to have any implication whatsoever of any business owner, that truly is trying to create jobs, and in many times I live in the Mecklenburg area, and I don't know the concentration of military retired,  but it's going to be a lot different than maybe East or North Carolina we've very much active bases which make it somehow inequity of the available pool. So, if there is a consideration to somehow consider 1099s I will tell you there're a lot of employers, and probably just not real estate though that's what I'm closest to, that have a high1099 count and I think that information would really be important to justify that they're helping in this effort Good point. Okay, thank you. We've one speaker I'm just going to let her speak and I know that Representative Horn has got an amendment just barely two minutes. Thank you very much madam

Chairman, my name is Connie Wilson, I represent the employers correlation of North Carolina and I've talked to Senator Brown about his bill, we've about 2000 employers across the state for profit and non profit, and we deal with human Resource issues like workers compensation and unemployment, and also anything like this that will have another report that's required, in looking at this bill I called the veterans affairs department because from what I can tell this is where it was coming from and it was brought to my attention by the deputy director there, because of the job fairs that Representative Soko had mentioned there are some employees across the state and we've some of our members who participate in those job fairs who're out there trying to recruit veterans. And the reason why this person mentioned the bill was necessary was to see if from those job fairs if people are really hiring folk and veterans from these job fares and in doing additional research after talking to this nice gentleman, I asked him the question, how many other states do this, he said I don't know I've checked for the surrounding states around us, nobody has additional requirement it's actually very boiler plate almost like a template. With an annual report you're asking for extremely basic information, I'm sure many of you filled that out. So we're now venturing into a totally new area where we're going to be asking for additional information. There are 400, 000 of these forms filled out a year, so if we're only going after maybe a few hundred employers trying to figure out who's really hiring this veterans, this maybe a big umbrella that we're trying to capture everything when there's actually a smaller number that we're working with. I guess the final question that I'll leave and appreciate the time is if this really is the best way to collect this data and as has been question before is it the most accurate because once you start saying we're going to start opening up annual reports for serving employers All of you know how creative the general assembly is and you're always looking for data, everybody can say yes, we're always looking for data and this maybe an easy lift down the road to expand what's coming in the future. So we would ask that, we're not saying don't support a bill like this, but if there's was a way it could be restructured so it's not an additional requirement on employers that may not be as accurate we would really appreciate the committee looking at some other options Thank You! Thank you very much! Representative Floyd did you have another? Yes Madam Chair, I am from a military community the home with the 80sec the 911 caller, when we look at the military from a national stand point of view, military is going to downsize 450, 000 military personnel, the question is, we're all trying to save our military persons we have a that's going to loose 1200, a lot of money spent but we're going to loose those personnel, we're in this general assembly in the last session to support military especially those who have [xxx] licence as an example of who are going into the trucking industry. This is, when we look at Central North Carolina and we look at Eastern North Carolina, and we look at this state economy, this is the third engine that drive the state, the third engine for economic that drive the state. So I'm in favor to look at these kinds of things that will support our military personnel, and we have about just four [xxx] is only 98 billion dollars that it provides for our community, and if we lose anything from [xxx] like we did in Desert Storm where we had 25, 000 military personnel shipped out in two weeks, two weeks we had 25, 000 military personnel, we had a desert city. So anything that we can do to demonstrate the will, Military Friendly, as Congress begin to do base alignment, we can have statistical data [xxx] that we are truly a Military Friendly state and I support your bill. Thank you, And we've got limited amount of time have one amendment from Representative Ford that they're going to read Thank you Madame Chairman, Representative [xx] had requested to add the matching of means into the definition of veterans and so what his amendment would do will be on pages two and three both on lines of 11 respectively would add the word [xx] matching marines after the word guard. Representative Szoka. Thank you Madam Chair, those of you who were here last session recall resolution specifically talking about match marine than I apply the effort to add them, how I would request that the amendment be withdrawn until we

check Federal Law to see if match marine category and if they are I myself will offer this amendment on a house, but I believe that we are over stepping the definition of veteran according the Federal Law. could be, it's possible. Senator Brown, what do you? Put it on house floor, OK. Representative Shephard. Madam Chair, just for a question, it maybe for you all. Is this bill going to be referred to Military Affairs Committee in the House? No, I don't think it has any referral. OK, we'll just go ahead and vote on the bill, all in favor. Madam Chair, can I make a motion for a favorable?   Yes, please do. Madam Chair, I move for a favorable for Senate Bill 105. Thank you very much, and all in favor? Aye. All opposed? The bill passes. Senator Brown, who's going to handle your bill on the floor?   Representative Shepard, can you handle it? OK, thanks so much. OK, thank you. OK, we have a few minutes, we are going to discuss House Bill 482. House Bill 680 was removed from today's agenda. So, Representative Pendleton and there's a motion for the PCS before the committee. Representative Brown [xx]  we hear the PCS. All in favor for the PCS, aye, all opposed? Alright, you have it. Alright go ahead. We are not set in stone of this bill. We've had a number of changes as we go along with this bill, but let me give you a little history about it. First of all, I am an independent contractor I have about 30 insurance companies that I work for, I know even the contractor inside and out. My client seem to think I'm an employee of an insurance company but that's not so, so I understand it has been a contract. While I was running for office observer, the news and observer did five different articles on how relaxed we're on independent contract or status in North Carolina were the worth in the south and a lot of people that abuse this are moving into North Carolina because our punishment is none existent. The media said I haven't asked revenue to look at it, the media said we're losing about, in state income taxes about $400 million in a year and the IRS is losing about $400 million a year on this also. There are a number of reasons that we're doing this. We're doing it for business and industry so we have fair competition and we're doing it for the workers that work for the company, and there's all kinds of horror stories of people getting killed on the job we are getting hard on the job this are uneducated people they don't realize that they are independent contractors some fancy Attorney might try to say Wale, instead of game, thank you attorney. He was talking about him. Yeah but they might say that they should know better, but these people don't know better Who has a question,  you ready for question already, Madam Chair at the appropriate time We're not vetting on this this is for discussion only. Yeah good you want some [xx]. We have about five minutes. Okay, but one fellow guy got my attention, after I read those articles I have a good friend that's in the concrete business he sells concrete, and he told me the harsh story going on away county, that a guy moved here from Florida, and where they have 5, 000 fully employed penalty, and we have nothing. And they moved here and he now and an year and a half has 80% of the concrete furnishing business, and he's put so many people out of I've heard over 400 employers state worth in favour of this bill. I haven't heard anybody unfavourable the're some people that want some

changes in it, and we will do whatever you all want to do Speaker Blue Baker contacted one of the members of this committee today, and he's got the issue on one thing on the definition of independent contractor we can change that, it doesnt matter. I primarily dealt with Drew Hiss, who is an attorney and chairman North Carolina Industrial Commission, and thir urge with enforcing these types of things, He and his people along with our building and rafting put this ravage together laws that we came up with. I have worked extensively with Senator Talker over in the senate where they introduced the bill to do this, but their bill puts the shop that requires fatal term employers. Put their shop in the state budget alters the office, and you don't want it there because it needs to be in industrial commission because they're already working on this thing it doesn't provide any appropriation, if we're not going to have anybody to enforce it then there's no sense for doing it. Rep Pembleton, we have only one question, unless we've got a few minutes, Rep Bradford. Thank you Madam Chair woman. I don't want to answer your question. Thank you Rep Pembleton. So, in light of my last question, I was pleased to see that the section here retaliation prohibited and then as I was reviewing it, I saw that it was really retaliation from the employer to the employee. I just want to bear with you that as a small business owner, I can absolutely see where an independent contractor through ICAA contract agreement and employer may sever that I can see almost retaliation the other way and I would encourage the bill sponsors to make sure that there are some provisions that Innocent until proven guilty if you will. In other words, how do you make sure that just because you have one complaint from someone who thinks that classified that you don't send the troops right? so whatever you need to do because that will happen. And we will be glad to work with you on that. Representative Brown Thank you, Madam Chair. Quick question, comment from a question perspective, do we have or do we think we might need an incarceration note on this bill? Incarceration? Yes, do you think there'd be, food for thought and then secondly in terms of the appointments of the director of this new task force, there's language in here that essentially says the governor appoints but most do so in a timely manner if he doesn't do so in a timely manner, the General Assembly would have the authority to appoint. Those of you who were here last year will recall the manageable I suppose disagreement we had over the definition of timely manner and the governor employement I'd just urge the bills sponsors to tighten that up with a very specific date certain as to when that appointment would need to be made. we need to change and I'm glad you brought that up because this person would be hired by the chairman of the industrial commission and this person would be about a $50 000 a year person, the end about $40 000 a year employed. it's not going to be kind of half hour job, they're going to be getting workers policies, going to the North Carolina department labor for the quarterly wage and earning statement and then compare them looking for fraud that's all they going to be doing it's not going to be any half [xxx].  And to the last question we have representative Catren very short we're going to take a minute. Thank you, a very short question, does this have anything to do 1099 independent employees? Oh sure it does yes sir. We're good then I'd like to talk to you about that. Alright I'm more open and one thing and I'll wrap it up. Is this OK? Barely. Alright, the North Carolina chamber, the Association general contract factors in FIB, hundreds of churches, the media statewide, hundreds of businesses and a North Carolina home bill version in favor of this, so. OK, thank you very much Representative, and this meeting is adjourned.