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House | April 29, 2015 | Committee Room | House: Agriculture, Environment, and Natural Resources

Full MP3 Audio File

Caroline Gorman from Newburn's sponsored by Senator Sanderson,  thank you for being here, Heily Hughes, from Trent wood, also sponsored by Senator Sanderson, thank you for being here. Courtney Thomas from Clayton, sponsored by Senator Van Duyn, she used to chair the pages this week because she put starts beside her name, and overly a battle from Riley, also sponsored by Senator Van Duyn. Our sergeant at arms are Terry Burnham, Jim Hamilton thank you all for being here today, the first bill we'll take up today is senate bill, that's what I'm doing. Alright then,  I'm sorry. Sorry my senior chair was telling me what to do. Centre bill 132, Carteret Fox traffic. Senator Sanderson. There's a PCS, Senator Jackson moves for a adoption of PCA's. All those in favour will say I, I I's have it, senator [xx] Thank you Mr. Chairman, I say that you're a wise man, by listening to you general counsel. Members of committee, this is a bill that you've seen many times before in different counties. I'm running this bill as it's so a request resolution by our county commissioners. I don't mean I agree with it or disagree with it but they'e requested it. A little thing different abut this bill is first that it will not allow trapping and sealing of boxes and also it has a two year sunset. They wanted to try this for a couple of years to see if it caused any things that they weren't thinking about and so it ended two years of the sunset, so I ask for you support and I would be glad to answer any questions. Senator Bingham. Thank you Mr. Chairman. SenatorSanderson, I assume this will be considered a local bill. Yes sir it is local. I move for favourable report. I hold that, any other questions from the committee? Senator Jackson. Thank you. Senator Sanderson, how many angry emails I'm I going to get over this trapping bill because your last one just about broke my inbox. I don't think you're going to get any over this Representative Jackson and I apologized to the last one, and I think we've got that worked out so that all those people who were angry will now not be angry any more. Senator Jackson, if you have a problem with email, Senator Bingaman will instruct you how to handle those emails. Any other question before the committee? Anybody from the audience who wishes to speak, if not the motion by Senator Bingaman to adopt the PCS favor to the original. All those in favor will say aye. Aye! Opposed no. Aye's have it. Thank you Senator. Thank you Mr. Chair. Next bill up, senate bill 546 by Senator Harrison Thank you Mr. Chair and members of the committee. This is a relatively unusual venue for me to be in and dealing with issues of this sort, it arose from a conversation actually a meeting I had with a local medical doctor he's a surgeon, in the presence of the local health director at, called at the director for quest. It seems that there are hunters out there, and there is no organization, they want to donate the wild deer, venison to food banks but food banks can't accept it unless there are some kind of inspection process, which is understandable. What the bill does and I have an amendment I need to run Mr. Chair, I think its being a process of being distributed. OK Is to limit that to the gist of the amendment is to limit this to a white tailed deer, and authorizes the establishment, a fee to be established by the department associated with the inspection of restaurant of sorts. It's largely designed to be quite candid just to keep the bill alive, there's a lot of work that's probably needs to be done and we worked, I tried to work with the department of EGG and HSS to try to deal with this if the amendment is adopted which I would hope it would be Mr. Chairman, that would mean that not only will this bill don't have to go to health, it would have to go to finance and we will be in the process working on some other things in the meantime.

I would recommend it to you, let me send forward the amendment. Senator [xx] send forward the amendment. That amendment is what in illegal note they, I have on this member stricken farrow deer and red deer and it's limited to white tailed deer which are wildlife as opposed to the others which are livestock, and as I would commend the amendment to you and I would move the adoption of the amendment as a member of the committee [xx] Senator [xx] has a technical clarification on that amendment. Thank you Mr. Chairman just thought on what senator Hudson was just saying about his amendment to clarify any confusion that you all might be having looking at the amendment and before you, we printed this down and subsequented that, the decision was made to strike though the terms, fallow deer, red deer and the word or and so that would be done as a perfecting amendment to the amendment before you so, the only deer that would be subject to the provisions of this bill will be white tailed deer. questions for the committee. Senator Jackson. Thank you Mr. Chairman, Senato Hudson, what's the purpose of deleting the fallow and the red deer, you might have said [xx] They are livestock, they are considered as I understand, livestock white tail or not, white tail is wildlife, and what we're talking about about is wildlife as opposed to livestock and I don't want to create any confusion with anybody about anything, there are actually are inspection facilities is to deal with [xx] deer and red deer, and this is in consultation with the department too senator [xx] Thank you Mr Chairman, Senator Hudson what is the establishment the process to me is not an individual that goes out and kills a deer they can donate but the general is picking these institutions can't accept unless it is inspected and certified [xx] and what we are trying to do is create a program that would create a degree inspection and certification.   Follow up. Sir, there is a [xx] in a real establishment, so there is a place name that actually does the inspection, we don't have to actually make a place to inspect them, is that what your're saying, so there be a cause? There are folks, we have to have somebody to create, I'm not very particular in this situation because am not a hunter and I really acknowledge that, , although I did find, I never [xx] Proud of you. Thank you. Thank you. You the man, you are the man. We just don't have, there is no certification or inspection process in place in any for action for worldwide. There is for lifestock and that's maintained by the department of [xx], and they do some of that. There's nothing for and there's now regular, but the fact is we're not talking about selling it, we're talling about being able to donate it because, the entities in many cases the food parties, for instance, cannot accept or do not accept uncertified unprocessed and inspected, can some thank of the facilities, or just try to come up what to address you, so that they can donate How long? How long?  So we're seeing, we have to establish an apartment to, like the FDA, inspect the meter, whatever we do at the state level essentially what was proposed is the local health department will do the inspection. Follow up. Follow up. Well to my knowledge the local health department don't do the remaining inspections, is the FDA. They do restaurant inspections, and they do grocery inspections and these other things, we're talking about, small local organizations who what this does is set a phase so they can do that or get an opportunity to do that we are getting the opportunity there. Follow up. Follow up.

We will be in veterinarian I know the FDA theirs is on health inspection the local health department does not do those, so I think it would be a special program, but you are working through that, right? That's what we are trying to do, is work through that and we are in both HSS and Agrihear we've been trying to work with them, it's just been short term trying to come up with something This still has to go to health, and with this amendment we would have to go to finance as well OK Senator Turker,   Apologies for being late Senator Jackson's LA tried to open the door on the elevator and left me stuck in the elevator and you chairman Buck[sp?] would find humor in that I know so I go ahead and get that out of the way. Take the fade elevator next time. Senator Hatson[sp?], what are we trying to fix here? I mean people donate meat all the time but wherever generally Dr. Wayne[sp?] Senator Wayne[sp?] is talking about is everything is packaged at the health department inspects. You're talking about deer processing coolers that have deer hanging and with blood dripping on concrete floors, and they wash them down with the hoes, and process the meat, which is where I take mine if we are so fortunate enough to kill one for the freezer for the winter, what are we trying to fix here? I just don't we're going to try and start inspecting the process and facilities that old bubbles got with cooler with a deer hanging in it and I don't know, I'm just trying to understand Okay. Let me try it again. There are such facilities who do just this thing for in fact fowl deer and red deer, basically species that are not considered wildlife. There's no inspection program for all he said adopt her at the moment for livestock, is what I should begin with. There's no such program for wildlife, we're talking solely about, now, that being the case, any number of the large food banks, if you as a hunter choose to donate the venison of a white-tailed deer to a food-bank which number of folks want to do. The food-bank can't accept it, unless it's inspected in some fashion at some point in time. These are generally small entities. Unless and until you have somebody who wants to donate it to them, even if you wanted to donate, they can't accept it unless there's some kind of inspection program, out there. What we're trying to do is to create limited form of inspection program that is optional, that if in fact you are able to, you kill a deer, it is processed and you want to donate to a food bank, the food bank can accept it because they can't accept it, unless it's inspected in some fashion. Just trying to create a limited program limited situations and may need to deal with some other things. That's all sir. We're trying to work through the process of creating that possibility. Senator Jackson. I think we're discussing the bill when there are amendments before us I was going to look, because we are talking about different deer, the type of deer that is being processed with twin fallow, that's where I saw well that latitude on this one and some I could judge, it's pretty good. The questions before the committee, are there questions? Senator McInnis[sp?], looks like you're contemplating one. Thank you Mr. Chair. I assume we're on the amendment, what we're talking about. Yes sir. And it says to inspect the establishment once annually, I'm kind of like Senator Tucker I frequently these establishments to do this for a living and I don't have an annual inspector as [xx] to [xx] at the end of the day that's all the things I got to say, and we got, God bless anybody who wants to give anything to the feed bank to help those who are less fortunate I'm all four, I know in some of the states that I participate in handing in exercises, that there is a program whereby they feed the hungry and that sort of stuff, I'm not sure how they get along about it and all the intricacies of it but I do know this is a viable program and I complement anybody that would participate in it.

Mr. Chairman. Senator Jackson. Just to move this forward, I make a motion we exempt this amendment. OK. Amendment is on the floor. Actually I want to ask if HHS and Department of Ag would want to comment on this section. Amendment Senator Ford because you're looking at establishing fee for this establishment and if while we're discussing that part of the provision of the bill, we need to make sure we discuss that while it's before us. If Alphabetical order, [xx] bask there, would you come approach the mic and state your name, rank, serial number and comments on the amendment. Mr. Chairman. Joy Higgs, Legislative Liaison for the Department of Agriculture, I would like to thank the bill sponsor for working with us to address our concerns, to provide a little bit of clarity, what we've talked about today, is non-amenable species, and the Department of EGG is in charge of inspecting amenable species to the Meat and Poultry Inspection Act, and that is what he was to deeming livestock. But there're 52 inspected processing facilities across the state that also as private facilities, have contracted with the hunters for the hungry and do inspect [xx] white tailed deer, but they're only 52 of them, there are 39 of those that are inspected on a daily basis, and then there are 13 of those that are inspected quarterly, that their cut, considered custom slaughters, but we're so very awared that that there's probably over 100 facilities out there that do only non amenable species, white tail deer, and that are currently not under regulartory authority, and we the department of agriculture do not have the regularory authority, to go in and inspect their facilities. And so that is the issue, the issue that he's brought forward to you is because a non profit does not, want to take the liability of accepting a product, that does not have a mark of inspection. Under our Meat and Poultry Inspection Act, a non-amenable species will never have a mark of inspection because we don't have the authority to do so. So, that is the cattle here, of the issue for the department of the agriculture and so we are willing to work with the bill sponsor of any of you all to try to address this issue as we can we think that there always been a clear delineation between us and public health on who inspects meat in the state, and it has always fallen to us, what we do when we inspect meat is we are looking there at both before and after slaughter, to make sure the animal is healthy and safe to enter into the food chain, and that's why I'm mark of inspection is given because this inspection has taken place. This is a different situation where wherever there's a deer slaughter you are not there to inspect and sometimes you don't get to see the entire animal and so that is some of the hurdles that we the department see as we move forward to this but we certainly appreciate the time they continued to work on this with the senator and appreciate his willingness to work with this on this issue. Also I might add have division director Allan Weird with us and he can answer any of technical question about any of our meat and poultry inspection process and any questions or concerns that he might have and trying to set up our inventory process. Senator Weird. Joan could you remain there just a minute, I have a quick question, thank you Mr chairman. I'm I wrong in USDA there's all the inspection federaly and they can allow the state to do some it as their acting agent that's the way it works. Mr President, senator Weird honest. We work under a cooperative agreement, and in this state it's a 50/50 cost share, and so, we're acting agents of, and doing inspection equal to the federal requirements. We also work with meat handlers that's a little bit different, and those are the ones that are doing the processing of chicken on the farm up to a certain amount, and that is not totally 50/50 split, but that is that's what we're doing, It's not federal government. The only thing that the federal government is doing, I guess it's a little bit complicated. They are doing chicken slaughter. W're doing chicken further processing. But when it comes to red meat slaughter, that's all done under Meat Inspection department of North Carolina Department of Agriculture, not FDA. Follow up, But, does it come under the USDA by giving me permission to do this? Because my understanding is, all meat inspection is done at the very levels but didn't make contract for the states to inspect. Is that not right?

Senator wait, technically, yes, we are acting agents through that cooperative agreement. But, it is our state inspectors who they're inspecting it. And we are, through that a corporate of agreement, working on behalf of FSIS to so, I would still say that it's our state inspectors, but we are in a cooperative agreement. And so, that's the issue we do not through that, a cooperative agreement has the regulatory authority on Non-Amenable species. Nor do we have any laws, state laws that allow to inspect that program either. Follow up. Follow up. One other question, so these 100 facilities that you mention, which I was trying to get out before when it says establishment. Are any of them inspected by your inspectors? Can I defer to our Division Director Allan Wade for that question? Allan feel Give us your name and occupation and department. My name is Allan Wade, I'm Director of Romney Poultry Inspection Division. To answer your question, our senator, we actually have a state meat inspection program, where we inspect 60 facilities that are state inspected only, that only do intrastate commerce of meat and poultry items daily. We also have a cooperative agreement where we actually inspect almost 100 [xx] facilities, better known as USDA Inspective Establishments then we have our state inspection staff in daily, that do interstate sales and intrastate sales. So, to answer your question, we do have a liaison agreement with the federal government. A cooperative agreement pertaining to amenable species only. The 52 establishments that Joy mentioned earlier, they're doing custom activity as well, which is an allowable exemption inside a facility that's under full inspection. So, you can take your deer to one of these inspected establishments or customer establishments, and basically the deer will be actually prepared In a clean and sanitary environment, we're not guaranteeing the health and welfare of the animal and it's fit to go into human food chain because, naturally all animals they go into the human food chain, or require barlow, to be inspected on animal ortem or post mortem inspection, and emotion before they're slaughtered for any, abnormalities as well as monsters slaughtered. The internals are actually examined by out trained and inspection they have to verify that they are healthy, free of any pathogens or disease, then they move to the phase that we're talking about now which is processing. So, naturally if these deer are presented at any establishment based on what we're talking about now, basically the guarantee would be that they are prepared in a clean and sanitary environment only no way would any DHS or our division be able to guarantee that the animal was fit for human consumption because we won't be able to do an animortem or post-mortem inspection on the internals where was emotions, pathological diseases, et cetera and so on. Follow up, Follow up. So, are you saying the deer only facilities are being inspected. The deer only facilities, we don't have the deer only facilities, all of our facilities that are under our current oversight are actually doing amenable species too like personal slaughter for individuals pertaining to hogs, cows, et cetera, that they've grown at home and they would like to take home and consume for their personal use and their family. But yes ma'am they're all are actually under our inspection program if they are actually doing amenable species. Follow up,   Follow up.  So, to answer my question, is there anyway that you can approve the meat that it would be able to be donated like we do our livestock so, beef or anything like that, would you be able to do that for deer meat or would you have to get permission from the USDA in order to do it or how does that work? Being deer, white tail deer in particular is not an amenable species under state law or federal law, there would be no way it could bear a mark of inspection, whether it be state or federal. Senator [xx] if I could ask the bill sponsor a question have the deer, un inspected deer process and facilities ask for this. No, let me explain, there's a difference here, we're talking about processing so that you as the hunter can give

it away, not sell it, it doesn't go to commerce. Give it away to a non profit that provides Protein, for the hungry, we're just trying to come up with because right now, they can't accept your gift because of the current situation and the structure of the law. I'm just trying to come up with a way. Follow up.come up with some way to do that. Follow up. Follow up. From what I heard the 60 that are currently excuse me, 52 that are currently able to do that already. I'm just concerned about an unintended consequences as the ones that are, I've got one two or three or I got more, I got 10 or 12 in my District and they going look down on their noses if we come in and say you got to pay a fee that we don't know what fees I understand, I'm not throwing cold water on you. If there's already a facility, 52 facilities or 60 facilities throughout the state, that this can be done and 100 can take them and take them to one of those facilities is already approved, I'm just having, I'm struggling with those folks that didn't ask for this, is where I'm coming from This came from the hunters. This came from a hunter, who is in position, who wants to, at least be able because he doesn't have, a nearby processing facility where he can get the meet he wants to give away, processed. It doesn't mandate the inspection of anything nor does it say that, this is a voluntary process that would permit somebody from payment of a fee, it's going to be subject to we're just trying to create a preposition where folks can give it away and the folks who they want to give it to can accept it. Follow up, does it all say voluntary anywhere in there? Is the work voluntary in there? I have no problem with putting a voluntary provision in it. That's not if it's not. We're trying to just get this thing in waves that I can survive crossover and work to deal with the rest of the situation. That's what the amendment, the primary respect reason for the amendment is to create the process whereby there can be a fee established so, it goes in its [xx] crossover, because we're going to have to work on some other things, I don't deny that. Senator Floyd. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to make sure I understand what the gentleman from the Department of Agriculture said this can't be done. Is that correct? Senator Floyd would you just repeat your question one more time. It's my understanding that the gentleman from the Department of Agriculture said that this cannot be done is that correct? Mr. Chair, again Allan Wade, it's not that it can't be done, but it can't be done carrying the State of federal mark of inspection which would allow it to be in commerce. I think the situation here evolves around the fact that a lot of the non-profits actually are in the position where they only want it to accept product that bears a State's or Federal mark of inspection. Voted to answer your question senator. No, it can not bear a State or Federal mark of inspection because it is not Non-Amenable Species under the current North Carolina and Federal Law. Follow up? Follow up. Where do we go from here? May I make a suggestion? We adopt the amendment so that we can figure out a way to make it work. That's all we're trying to do. Because speaking of situations where it's in commerce, but where we're trying to get local folks to be able to voluntarily do this sort of thing so that you as a hunter, can have it processed and give it to somebody who wants it and needs it, but can't accept it because there isn't a process whereby they can get this done. That's what we're trying to work through. Senator Jackson.

Senator [xx] it sounds you're making a good faith effort to accomplish something worthy. you might not have all the details worked out, but it sounds that you're doing the absolute best that you can in light of the impending deadline, I'm going to support you on this. I think Senator McInnis has raised some interesting issues, I'm sure you and me are about to have a more detailed conversation when things have quieted down a little bit and we have a little time to breath and figure things out, Is that my understanding? That is absolutely correct, I've been trying to do it. Two Lawyers. Agree? This is a milestone in the history of in other world. [xx] Now I'm about to read the bill. Lady from HHS if you'll approach the mic  and let's hear from HHS there has been some concerns for this bill as well. Yes Mr. Chair thank you. I'm Larry Michael, Chief in the Environmental Health section with the Division of Public Health. And, similar to Mr. Wayne's comments from NCDA the concern that we have is the facilities that we inspect throughout the State, the local Health Department inspect, the first thing, they must receive food from an approved source and that confirms to what Senator Wayne said earlier. If we did this type of program there is nothing that we have in place that can certify that the meat that leaves that facility is safe to eat. Because, again, just like NCDA, it doesn't bear mark of inspection from a Federal State facility, and that's the first thing that we look for, and the facilities that we inspect State wide. Senator Wayne I have one quick question. Thank you Mr. Chairman. You couldn't certify that it was safe to eat, therefore, there was an outbreak or something from doing this. People could get sick. I mean, they do, and it is USDA inspected. So, to me it just seems like it might really start a health risk and what's going to stop us next time from [xx] rabbits or squirrels or pigeons? May what's your comment on that. Do you not think there is possibility of outbreak of disease? Yes, if I may Mr. Chair. You may please. Sooner the way there is always a chance of out breaking time through this consumed, the difference here is we conducted an outbreak investigation or we have to do a trace bank. If we have no idea where the source of this food comes from, then there's no way to guarantee how it's prepared or how it was actually handled before is received by the facility that we inspect, and therefore it's really difficult to solve these type of problems when food comes through some unapproved source. Follow up? I don't know about [xx] and [xx] or anything like that is that possible in deer meet? Yes that's the way it is. The question for may either be [xx] [xx] or something like this and senator Tucker hit on the part not part of senator Jackson sent the [xx] We've estimated that the reason why we can't put the North Carolina seal on everything else and reason why the non process do not want to take it is because of the liability and I think this is what the question is because of the liability and who will bear the responsibility if there's an outbreak or some type of death would have been the state where we will be held in regard because we are running the inspection program, inspect I know lawyers will argue about that all day long, at the end of the day who will be holding the bag that's going to pay the money in that instant? Do we send it back to wildlife they are here today, we will put it on them too senator Alexander.  I've done a fare minor of dear hunting and I've donated a lot of dears to the hungry and what happens basically is you shoot the dear and if it's close by you can take it direct it to the facility and just unload it out of the back of your truck and may process it there there is a place in Louis Berg that probably does 2/3 of the processing of deer for hunters for the hungry, when they process assess they do give it to suite cases for the interface food shuttle or whatever else though this meat is being eaten male and seeming to weigh to your comment what about the product that gets there sometimes that's up to the process itself, the person through my deal and Louis Berg, he probably gets inspected anyway because he also processes pork and beef and during the rest the year, and he just sort of makes a call and if they comes in that night and it was shot that day, then it's probably pretty good. If it was shot the day before, then he will throw the dumpster saying it's not fit.

But but these non-profits are getting that mouth through hundreds for the hungry and we're having a difficult time across North Carolina finding processing facilities because often times somebody loves to shoot dear, people love to shoot them, but once they pull the trigger then a lot of work comes up. And so, often times they'll get thrown in ditches or the horrible things can happen and so we need to try to make it as easy as we can for the Hunters for the Hungry to be able to get this innocent and I only rejected it to being a clean facility, don't misunderstand me because nobody wants to eat bad stuff, but don't make the ropes so tight or the fees are high that these people just say I'm not interested. But it's  good program that's been going on for years and the Make Candidate Wildlife Commission is aware of it and we need to continue this. Do we have anyone from Hunters from the Hungry, from the audience today? [xx]  you want to jump in on this. Senator Bingham thank you Mr. Chairman, Senator Harslow[sp?] do you indicated that you would be receptive to putting volunteer to in the wording this I think that would be imperative as ar as I'm concerned because as soon as Alexander mentioned we've got a facility local facility in both counties Montgomery and Davidson, that voluntarily do this work and they give it to and I know of know problem, because just as Senator Alexander mentioned, they're pretty are responsible in what they take et cetera, and they will not accept. And I understood that you said, there are [xx] programs in other states. Are you aware of any problems that they've had? I think what Senator McInnis has mentioned. I do not. Senator [xx] where is this doctor taking the deer? I mean where is he killing the deer? Is it in Cabarrus County? He is not taking it anywhere now because there is nowhere  I mean where is he killing the deer? In the Cabarrus County, In the south facility there in Orlando, Iredell? Not that I'm aware. He wouldn't have raised it if there have been somebody and I might add the head of the President of North Carolina Wildlife Federation in Cabarrus County as well is aware of this. I'm just trying to come through with a niche to deal with the sort of exceptional situation that can come around to tell people can donate something, and we still got to deal with, because we're talking all this whole stuff has to do with stocks in commercial, and there are donations that are made, but they're inspected in commercial facilities. I'm just trying to come up with a way in the mean time, all local places where the people can donate. Follow up Benson. That's it Senator Wade. Senator Hudson, how do they do it now if a hunter kills the deer and they want to donate the meat, how does it work now? The entity who accepts it they won't accept it unless it has some kind of inspection. But they also have a great need for a protein we are just trying to come up with a way because we have a lot of folks who make one or two deer a year. They may and this facilities are in different kinds of places, they may not be available or nearby. They want to donate it, they can't donate it. Just trying to come up way so that they can donate it. Follow up. Follow up.   Senator Hudson, I think we all know you're trying to do a good thing here with getting food donated,  but we also have a responsibility that people don't acquire a sickness or that it's inspected, we know safe to eat. So I'm trying to find out if you're a hunter right now and you shoot a deer, you can give it to your neighbor? Oh, you can give it to your neighbor, sure? So, Senator Alexander mentioned that they were all ready donating this. So I'm just trying to find out how they're donating it there at this how  they are donating the Hunters. The Hunters will have it processed at one of these inspected facilities and they will for there donate it

to if they have it available, or it can go into commercial. But my follow up was not expected so how are they donating the nail and be enabled to have with you? If you have one of these facilities that is inspected, they give it to that facility to have the work done, as in have it processed and then the finished product is down legged and they have an inspection certificate which you going to have. We are not talking about large muscles of he's done to [xx], we are not talking about, some of these are all over the place. We just have narrow situations. Now, if he is with or without me he can give it to his neighbor uninspected. But he can give to the food bank, but the food bank can't use it because it's not inspected. Follow up. Follow up. So Senator Hudson that's my point, I don't know how to donate to that and then for the food bank because the food bank can't or shouldn't use it because it's not been inspected for consumption, so that's the problem but I don't understand how Senator Alexander says they are already doing. That's all I'm trying to find out. Okay. They're already doing it where you have a facility that is nearby enough to deal with it and has that processing capacity. But if you don't and there plenty of places in the State who don't, we just trying to come up with a simple way, so folks can donate it with some kind of inspection associated with it. I'm getting a signal for a bad, Allan did you want to jump in on this again? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Hunters for the Hungry program currently contracts with our establishments they process deer. In other words the only deer they will actually accept the soundest process that our establishment that are under inspection over site. We have several of them that are contracted across the State, they come up with a negotiated fee with the processor and then of course the individuals take their idea there, they have them processed, they are one of our expected establishments and then in turn they are donated to facilities who are willing to accept the deer without a mark of inspection. Senator Wade. So the problem actually is this whether the facilities that are donated to, they don't want a liability of something is wrong. Is that where we are going with this? Because you're not saying it's safe for consumption, you're just saying it's been inspected right? And so now the non-profits now that do not want to take the deer meat are concerned with the liability of providing the meat, is that where we are? Senator Wade I think you're correct on that, I think it's all about a liability issue and the fact is, that most of these are particular about accepting liability, and a lot of them have moved to accepting State or Federally inspected product. The fact that some of the nonprofits are still willing to accept donations of deer in this case, they are actually requiring, as I said earlier Hundreds For The Hungry actually contract with our inspedulous[sp?] establishment, so, it's actually prepared in a clean and sanitary environment. That's pretty much what is verified. Senator, I'm sorry. Thank you, I'm on good faith effort [xx] hard it was. I would prefer a move forward on the amendment with many, many questions here. I think clarity is that these food banks that Senator Alexander is talking about in the ones that Mallinger spoke about are received in this me even though they are going through a facility that is under State inspection there is no way the state can guarantee it just because it is inspected facility. So, there is a due process in place Union County over the Cabarrus County land but they are not inspected. So he wouldn't be able to donate it there either, I think there's a lot of questions with this, but to get it to cross over and move forward and you be open to either answering the questions with the committee and trying to address selves in the bill and not even bring it to the floor or if you can't get them answered, I moved forward as soon as Jackson said move forward in favor poured on the amendment, go ahead and vote it out and then let you walk on sir.  Let me simply say,

with the amendment incorporated, it already has a serial referral to health and even then, with the amendment it would have to go to finance and that's what I'm trying to deal with because once I get the amendment in it and the bills and submit it, then we are in the process, we don't have to worry about cross over we can address it. That's the purpose of the amendment. Fall Mr. Chair, oh how we love animal bills here in the legislature. One thing would do with this, we'll go ahead and vote on this amendment, once this amendment is adapted, the spills no longer subject to cross over like I said we got a lot of questions instead of that deal with hag on this issue, hag and [xx] roll with this committee We'll adapt the amendment, they will still be eligible because a bill, then we'll, it has to be reported in? It has to be reported in. Well, I will run it and have a thorough referral back to finance and pales. It already has serial right to health. Right that's a. What about this amendment what about this more. Alright, senator Bean of scatter, David Hut falls down. All those in favor of the amendment those support it will say Aye. Aye! Those oppose no, the ayes have it with the is now before you. We have a motion Senator Tucker, moves to Senate Bill 546 as amended. All those with referrals to the different committees, all those in favor opt to be rehearsing. Member of the committee substitute PCS before proposed committee substitute, unfavorable to the original, favorable to the PCS as amended, All those in favor will say aye Aye! Opposed no. Aye's have it. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I suggest that, I think I agree with Senator Ford, who I heard him say at this point it's easier to donate hamburger meat, or maybe to cook it. [xx] Thank you. Write him a cheque, write him a cheque. We're adjourned. [xx] okay, okay