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House | April 21, 2015 | Chamber | 20150421_house_insurance

Full MP3 Audio File

I'd like to call this meeting House of Insurance to order. I'd like to welcome you all to this committee, we appreciate you being here. We'd like to recognize our pages [xx] Johnson and Doldwel's Junior, we appreciate job being in here today. We'd also like to thank our sergeant at Arms [xx] Wiliams Young Bay[sp?], Bill Mars[sp?], and Jim Moren[sp?] thank you for taking your time and helping us through this process. Members of the committee, house keeping issues first of all, anyone that uses the public mike, make sure that you turn it on, there a button on that mike. Secondly, in reference to house rules, and this something that is a traditionally a  followed my entire time here. We don't use the mechanism of the second, this is not your grandmother's Sunday lunch, we don't ask for seconds here. So we will go back to that tradition again and we only use it twice, motion to adjourn and motion to table. Second[sp?] Out of order,  but thank you for trying. At this time we will start our calendar, we will have House Bill 306, Representative Hamilton moves to have the PCS properly before us, all in favor say Aye. Aye. All opposed? The PCS is before us, strike that, pardon me there is no PCS on that one. Representative Lewis. Thank you. Mr. Chairman and members, I thank for your time today. I'll speak as quickly as I can. I'll begin by saying that this is a matter that the House considered in the session immediately prior to this one and did have favorable will give you some quick highlights. This Bill before you meet you got to need to be more [xx] by improving access of life saving [xx] medication some of which is most effective medication in the market today this bill also seeks to address health care issue, out of pocket expenses fro patients and all cancer treatment regime are often cause prohibited in fact study shows that out of pocket costs greater than $200 are at least three times more likely to provide a distance in it for those seeking treatments to have their prescription filled. Scientists and Oncologists across the Nation recognize the call savings and total treatment costs for all therapist. Currently all cancer drugs can be extremely costly for patients because the insurance plan designed is not kept pase with advances therapy treatments. This is unfairly penalizing patients that are trying to utilize uncreated or cancer drugs. 37 States have already passed some form of chemotherapy [xx] registration . There is no empirical data from those State to show that there was a premium rise associated with it . The bill does not have a fiscal impact to the State Health Plan, this was discussed at great length on the house floor because that State Health Plan already has a cap[sp?] that already treats these medicine is the same. I have a few more notes but in respect for the committee's time, I will force all in direction the check. [xx] name of the committee who had the motion of the floor have the discussion on debate. Hearing none, all favor of the motion say "Aye", all opposed, motion closed. Thank you [xx]. Mr. Chairman members and attentive. And I would like to thank the audience for being here today, we appreciate what you adapt and do as well. At this time we'll have house bill 809 you have said that one. And Representative Gabron. And representative  Hamarton like to [xx] this time to have the peace their to help restorate anon prosperate force on favor say Aye, all opposed, motion cleared. The bill is propriate forced, the said [xx] Thank you

Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, basically house bill 809 is to put into North Carolina statute, how we deal with the issue of HIP which is a rural program, it's called Hospital Insurance Payment program, and it was created in 1997, and what it is, it's an assistance program for low income people who have insurance, and have run into issues of being able to keep their insurance premiums up to date. And the organizations, these third party payers help with grants in the systems, and helping them keeping their payment up to date and be able to continue their healthcare, and the issue that we've done in the state, the federal program is laid out in our bill summary references three particular entities to accept payments from. What the state is going to do is include those three as well as the American Kidney fund which also helps with payment issues for low income people and it will also, whereas the federal limits set to qualify healthcare plans which is the ones that are for sale in the exchanges, ours it's state level will apply to any health plan, accepting those payments that regulated under chapter 58 of our insurance statute, so that is it in a nutshell that I can explain, the benefit of this primarily is, with the help that this people get, they do not lose their insurance, and we do not run the risk of being rolled on to the medicaid expense, so that's why I feel like that's a very good way for the state to go forward and being able to help these people keep their insurance and I would appreciate your vote. Representative Horn. [xx]. That was a technical correction it's actually the kidney fund. Representative [xx]  Thank you Mr. Chairman, could some one tell us that all of these organizations agree to pay insurance for at least one year, because sometimes they only want to pay when the person is sick, and then they want to [xx] all these organizations follow that rule I would defer the fact on that if anyone has that specific the answer. I will have to look into it and get that information about [xx] it is a huge year because I do a val[sp?] bill on [xx] payment on economic needs and I do look at that on the yearly basis and as long as there is the need they continue to pay,  excuse me, thank you, I mean if so if I was to in for kidney dialysis and they funded me [xx] fund my premiums [xx] service anymore or a minor insurance pick it up to do they agree to continue paying once I leave the center also for a whole year? that's a technical question that I could refer to someone from the Kidney Fund and there is lady who is available for questions. Yourae going to go back here. My name is Lavon Gartner, President and CEO of the American Kidney Fund, I wanted to respond to the last question now was that to which was will be insurance payment from the American kidney fund continue once the person is no longer going to a dialysis center. We pay for health range companies of health insurance premiums that a person has and we will cover whatever benefits are provided under that plan. In many cases I will also include the transplantation, once the supposed unhealthy transplant there will be unable to return pretty much to their normal life including employment, whereas when you're on dialysis about 80% of the patients are unable to work, so once a patient have the transfer there are able to return to employment and to pay their own insurance follow up. So what if they don't have insurance? We suppose that they will get insurance,

and I would say that the policy that we follow with very [xx] with medicare policy, once the program has the transplant they return to their normal activities including employment representative [xx] this is a good day off sponsors bringing it forward. My question is the October one effective date if would there be a gap by delaying it to October [xx] could this easily be a July one what was the thought behind the October 1 date I will refer to staff on that for a particular reason  There is no particular reason that I know of frequently the insurance placed on October one, or January one, but I'm not aware of a particular policy reason for that date, but that doesn't mean their isn't one I'm just saying I'm not aware ok if I could I will be more than happy to check into this and we could see if there is an issue we can take care of that was my concern, there was an issue because we are delaying till October and that maybe some are left in sort of a gap we can check them  Thank you very much representative [xx]   Thank you My understanding in reading of it is that they have a current health policy that they have difficulty in maintaining payment, and they file an application and receive a grant to help them cover the premium and the existing insurance policy, am I correct on that? But the bill would have apply to help in any contract they are issued in need they are amended in or after the effective thing. So the current policy that were going were going to have to make a change and hope they were renewed, so it would depend on what the renewal date was of that policy. If somebody was to take on a new policy, now we need to included at one of the exact [xx] after the inspect bills. Representative Desavile. Thank you Mr. Chair, maybe it might be above my head, I don't know, I'm curious why the insurance company would care [xx] payment that come in from person they were coming from a very party if they mean the money, I mean equipped having enforced this and have all, obviously they're not just consistent or they have a problem with taking payment[sp?] I'd like to know [xx] Why do we need them? Why [xx] You have to ask the insurance company. Most insurance companies I understand do, so that's an insurance company question. Is there anyone? Well, one thing that we do make sure that they'd understand that these people do accept it through all of the insurance under our statutes and things, so it removes a lot of questions and clears up what they can and can't do. It makes them standardized, it's probably the best reasons for putting this statute I would assume. Brief follow up. Follow up. Is there any opposition to this? Does anyone on the audience like to come forward and state your opposition? [xx] Thank you Mr. Chairman, Mark Fleming with [xx] Shield North Carolina were opposed to the bill. We already have a policy in place on party premium payments. This came up a couple of years ago after the approbable cataract was passed where we had a hospital foundation, to pay for some future patients that did not have insurance. We do have this power[sp?] together. We did not think this legislation is necessary because of that and we don't think the legislature should be passed in legislation and that could end a fill with our policy we've already put together. Thank you, [xx] Thank you Mr. Chairman, I did have a question about the other organizations other than American Kidney Plan that provided this, I mean a well aware of others is because

that's the only way where the Brian Hike, I mean a well aware of others because that's the only where Brian Hike, Brain White, HIVH program for pursuing to title 26 of a public health service act native of American clubs of course, and then state of federal government but other than something that's been legislated on a federal level or has existence to create the federal government. The American kidney fun, they are only one I was wondering why that what the case and then I also have a second question after this one. There again I have to differ to the staff in terms of other third party payers who have this type of a program. I do believe that there are other organizations out there that will help with premium assistance the one, two and three [xx] are nearing Federal Law and the American Kidney Fund is for [xx] added to that [xx] and you believe that there are other programs out there [xx] I can look into that and come up with some other examples. Follow up. Follow up. Just as a hypothetical. A public hospital had a patient come in that was severely ill. Would it be possible for them under the provisions of this, to contract with an insurance carrier that would to have to give a new policy regardless of  prior existing condition and then pay the premium to transfer the cost to an insurance carrier rather than care for that patient under an Indigent care or a medicate type situation.  I have no idea.   Yes because is the rule around here for every statute that we put in, we put several attorneys to work, they do not have to go around it. So any idea how to get around anything we do is possible, whether or not it's actual would be another question yes, so I would like to add to that, this registration would not deal with that kind of vanity so there will be no way of example that you are getting happening because of this legislation. Follow up? Members, Chairman, thank you Representative [xx] Thank you. I want [xx] my question a little differently. Is it possible under this bill that simply if you didn't have insurance [xx] the patients that we cover are people who are in kidney failure. They come to us with a health insurance plan, we have no involvement by law, we operate under an inspector general adviser opinion from the department of health and human services. We have no involvement whatsoever on where they select their plan, if they meet our income criteria, and that's how we decide, we decide that people who cannot pay their health insurance then they become eligible for a year, we reevaluate at the end of the year to see if their circumstances are the same, and as long as we have money in the funding to pay their health insurance, so this is not a short term kind of program. Follow up representative [xx] So for all these four organization station harm health insurance policy that would allow somebody else [xx] to pay premium while they can't and then [xx] I can guarantee you that, that is the case in the American kidney fund, and my understanding of the way of the structure for the other is that, that's also the case, we're not involved at all in this election of an insurance plan or any healthcare provider. Representative Boles. What I was trying, you claim does not pay for alien benefit and I mean in procedures, treatments, medical care, they only pay [xx], Yes that's true.

Further question from the committee? Representative Dollar. PCS, let the PCS, PCS. Thank you representative Dolar, may be the committee have heard the motion on the floor, all those in favor say Aye all opposed. Motion [xx], and this bill goes straight to floor, thank you representative Hadler.  At this time house bill 667, Representative Hager Representative [xx] used to have the PCS before us all in favor say aye, aye all oppose motion carried, PCS is probably before us and thank you, Rep. Hall, for your gracious motion. Rep. Glazier  Thank you Mr. Chairman. Hopefully this will be straightforward, It's just a study bill well, we look at when you have a really have to real they irritate and you get to use that, they will train you for that this bill will ask the ARC whether where you can choose those [xx] trainer and whether they should be on the enumerate provider list to build the [xx] study bill, I would like a local bill [xx] that's not a thing, that's not a representative [xx] that is the study bill year correct correct that is why I filled in this title study athletic trainer health care services. Where on the PCS? Not the PCS. Follow the bill, all that we have this one on PCS Representative Warren If it please the Chair I'd like to make a motion it really does. Thank you I'd like to make a motion for favor report PCS on house bill 667 on favor of the region members of the committee you have heard the motion on the floor, all in favor say I I all opposed, motion carried, thank you and if you will [xx] and this time we will have house bill 147 update fire and rescue commission membership representative Warson Thank you members of the committee [xx] just bad as click is the study, [xx] is update membership on the prior rescue commission to reflect the module of two through organizations and answer representation from the state chapter of the international association of Alson investigators, and clarifys some of powers of commission. First section of the bill as you can see just replaces the outdated North Carolina association of county [xx] marshals with the state chapter of the international association of investigators. What this does, it keeps the board well rounded, it distributes representation on the board equally among the different associations. The last edit in section two is just some clarification as to, in addition to the commission, it also adds in some language in reference to some of the actions that the commission, further explains actions that the commission may take when they meet. Section three is just a technical word change. We don't say Chairman any more, we say Chairman, or Chair or Vice Chair we are taking it out, we are just trying to correct that spelling, so thats the [xx] I am not sure what kind of association that purchase, what kind of department of insurance in the North Carolina state defilement association are all in support of this changes Thank you Representative Rosa, Representative Horn [xx], any further discussion from the committee? you have heard the most on [xx] from representative [xx], all in favors say aye', 'aye', all oppose [xx], thank you. [xx] at this time we will have house bill 216 Surplus Lands amendments, Representative Pendleton, Representative Howard notice he's had PCS before us for discussion, all in favor say Aye, all oppose thank you. Representative [xx] Okay I'll try not shouldn't sleep with this one, this is very technical, We won't let you.   Pop me. We have in his idea [xx] [xx]

Alright, the North Carolina stamping office, who deals in surplus land in and set poll turn you know more about surplus land and may, tell every body what surplus land is. Do want to come up hear? I don't sell that kind of insurance [xx] [xx] anytime please you're not [xx] the surplus lands are the [xx] in other companies in order to provide the insurance for the insurance company. No I'm sorry. We are Glad you could add to it. The surplus land provides they are not authorized in the state where [xx] in order to sum up with other insurance providers, obviously [xx] Okay, thank you, I don't solve that kind of insurance, he does. Okay now, what this does, it increases tax revenues, projected to increase tax revenues by approximately $3 million, and it takes an old an equated system, a credit system and update with provides the IT backup to do it. It helps to stop a lot a law suit against the state, taxes are collected and sent directly to the State Department of Revenue or the Department of Insurance rather than being put into the Sponsoring North Carolina Stamping Offices account. And that basically what it does. I know that doesn't tel you a whole lot. Now we do have a substitute, Representative penalty and role as a having amendments because our member have the amendments. Try to explain everything. The amendment just says it here sir, have it. [xx] [xx] Representative Howard [xx] I don't have it. I am so sorry we'll take care of that. Hey man thank you   What this provides is you no longer have to have an agent counter sign this and that's the only real change, those other things marked out but it just allows that the agent doesn't have to counter side it, in fact most [xx] season North Carolina don't have to be counted side by the [xx] general Questions from the committee, Representative Colem. Thank you for the adoption of the amendment step forward by Representative Pendleton. Any further discussion or debate? If not, all in favor say aye. Aye.   All of the opposed? Amendment is adopted. Further questions or comments on the Bill. Representative Pendleton moves to a favor of the report. The PCS has amended unfavorably the original bill and wrote into a Committee substitute. All in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed? Motion carried. Thank you, Representative Pendleton. At this time ladies and gentlemen of the house and members of the committee you will hear House Bill 683. Representative [xx] [xx] Thank you Mr. Chairman. Representative Black well I may to make some comments but I'll just briefly let you know there are whole list of providers who are given in statute for people with insurance coverage is reimbursing that particular this to have a choice, and occupational therapists were I think, inadvertently left off the list because you have people like therapist, and things of that nature, and we're just asking to have occupational therapist added into the list or people whose insurance policies cover OT to be able to have a choice of which provider they would like to have for their services. I would just say that I'm

[xx] let me go home and tell her that I will support the bill [xx] Representative Collins. [xx]   There is no change and there is no calls to people who have the coverage just giving them the choice to choose the provider like that, if you go into the statute there is a list of 15 or 16 different providers given where they would have the choice to be able to select the provider that they want Representative Collins. I guess staff would have to answer that question in terms of what happened. So do we depend on the insurance plan, it could be that the insurance does have the opportunity to choose their occupational therapist. Without being excluded in this bill the insurance could require for occupational therapist to be chosen, but that will be the choice of the insurer Representative [xx] It appears that I've asked a question, that this would say that all people are wise to do this type of work that ensures we'll have the right go to whoever they want to, so they don't have to use the network of insurance companies. Well, the network regulation under their policy would apply and this is where they want to go outside the network because they've got a special relationship and pay extra, they can do that but they can stay in network as well. Any question? [xx] I moved for a favorable report on House Bill 683. Ladies and gentlemen, committee you've heard the motion on the floor, any further discussion or debate? if not, all in favor say aye "aye" all opposed, motion carried. I'm so much pleased, Representative Waddell. Anything to ensure marital bliss we're always glad to do. At this time we will have house bill 148 ensures requirements for [xx] let's roll the wheels office one more time. No [xx] finance yet. Thank you Mr. Chairman, members of committee. Want to show you about house bill 148. As you know last year we debated this thuraly and general assembly asked whether the went and did some research. So, DMV with DLT went out and did a research of all our 50 states and they came back with some really good information and I would share some of the facts with you because we scheduled July this year to put legislation in place for more bills. That's a starting point because many of them are used throughout urban areas and municipalities for crime, and more and more so, and the Police Chiefs of North Carolina Association, Police Chiefs State support this, as well as the Agriculture department, but anyway with that being said and done, we did some research and we found that 34 out of 35 States in the country require some sort of insurance or if you've lost your driver's license in 34 out of 35 states, you cannot operate a moped on their highways. We're one of the few states that have no restrictions, no insurance or anything concerning mopeds, and increasingly they're becoming more and more of a  danger to themselves as well as other people on the highway. My concern is that if they're going to be on the highway I feel like they need to have some sort of insurance coverage. This past week James Stevens that works for Senator Tucker called me. He said, Representative Shepard, I want to come if we know what day this bill is going to be on insurance, I want to speak to it. I was in accident with a moped a month ago, and it was the moped driver's fault, but I had to pay $3000 out of my pocket because he had no insurance, and of course we don't require in North Carolina every year. I went on my own this past week and talked to some insurance companies, state firm agent [xx] said we're already insuring mopeds, and if these have registration and plates on them we will continue to insure them the cost will be $90 a year if they got a good driver record if they was to grab this licence B2 or [xx], it would probably be about 380 per year as much as it would be, and how does don't think that is asking too much if they're going to be on the highways, and I'm constantly getting emails from people and

concerned citizens about the dangers of mopeds and making sure that they do have insurance if they going to be on a the highway, and I'm not saying we need to take the privilege of the way even though 34 out of 35 states will not allow you to drive on the highway without a drivers licence which moped but what I am saying if were going to be on there we need to be responsible and we need to have some sort of insurance so that we cover ourselves. I'm going to [xx] talk with you because from, white force bad as hospital came to us, came to us, we didn't ask them, doctor there came to us and said we've a study of 539 nuclear if this is about this hospital and she gave us very interesting facts and statistics about this so, we know from them, this summer Representative [xx] if you would like to come and share some of that with the committee. Good morning, good afternoon. One of the most frequent concerns expressed to me by my constituent is about mopeds and as Representative Shepard said about this past summer, we were summoned to North Carolina [xx] Hospital school of medicine because they had done a study over about five years and they compared the incidences of travel, they looked at [xx] in the hospital of moped drivers and of motorcyclist and of the automobile drivers. And what was an alarming to me was that there was a 290% increase in moped crushes from 2003 to 2012. But we know this problem is only getting worse and we're seeing an increase in the number of mopeds. Moped drivers. I'd say more likely to be previously convicted of a crime, less likely to have health insurance or for it. Now I believe in people being responsible for the choices they make in this life and for the consequences of those choices, and along with so many North Carolinians are just urging me today to please, please require that most of their drivers join the rest of us. They were mandated by law to be possible to carry insurance because I and so many other North Carolinians and very, very tired of being responsible for them. I believe any statistics from the I have it, I can find it, we just really appreciate favorable report the Senate is debating the Bill for this, go on. Now we can't [xx] the thing? Yes we're. I just clear that we might complete them for once. I will try, Good luck with that. Questions from the committee, Representative [xx]   And representative [xx], I do like like Just last year, the issue of having in was implemented the process of you being registered [xx] [xx] I think right now [xx] personally, I think it's two years is too early, and I a year from now we will have a better idea for registrations. I agree with you, I think if we had done it all at one time registration research that's not the case, right now we registration, and I think with the added responsibility with BMB, we try to do two trains at one time we'd treat it as one. I can't vote for it right now, but I can a year from Can I speak direct Mr. Chair? Well the registration phase will be effected July, 1st of this year, the insurance will not take place until next July I have been assure by all entities in the meantime we can take more actions and we can pull it off, but everyday there is a new single motive, last week I got a call from our police chief at home. [xx] pulled up in a parking lot at a service station takes a gun out, the guy on the moped, and shoots a man in the parking lot, takes off on the moped. They're having a hard time finding him because there has any registration and no way to track anybody on a moped so that's one instance, and it's constantly going off[sp?] so I just feel like that we can keep putting it off and push them down the road but we have to take some action and what's amazing to me is 34 or 35 states have already got state requirement [xx]. North Carolina has nothing, absolutely nothing so, please share Representative [xx] and probably you may have, and I Life insurance [xx]   Not in order not in this bill Representative Pius. Yeah Mr. Chairman let as stop questions, let the chair perceptively be, but you almost telling there can be her way. Help me understand the BEO.

Mr. Chair we're not changing any involved or probable motive. All we're saying is if you're going be on the road that you are have custom liability insurance to cover yourself if you get an accident with someone else. That's what we are saying We are not saying the road, if they're going to work or if they're going to a convenience store, you can still do that. All we're saying is Representative Brown, is that we just want you to be responsible for your actions everyone else has to pay for insurance of one type or another and I feel like based on the statistics that we've seen from Badgers[sp?] Hospital that we need to have these people have the reliability insurance which is $90 to $380 a year. Next question, thank you. Follow up. I'm reading the bill, what is the county[sp?] fine for some of those folks who just bought one from somebody else I would think it can happen in a community with people having the mopeds because they appear to be only for a person who doesn't follow your rules, and if I missed that I do apologize. We did not put penalties in this bill to begin with, no Sir. I'm sure they will have to answer the DOT for that, and that is something we're looking at with the law enforcement. Representative Dollar.   I'll pass. Representative Baskerville. Thank you Mr Chair. So, I echo my colleague Representative Boles, and if things [xx] in all of the [xx] that we have brought up today none of them would be precluded from having that moped driver being insured, that's not going to serve that person [xx] stop that person from driving recklessly, it's not going to stop that person from doing any of that, all it's going to do is just [xx] money to the insurance company, and I don't see how with instruments that probably will lead to public safety or lead to set the vibe and on the road you can [xx] person [xx] [xx], Well it speak to public responsibility to have insurance for the actions you take. This is a big issue we're all having in Foothills, more pillage were carried like musicals more or less balloon and we're the first to speak from those bicycles. Bicycles stop much more quickly, bicycles are likely more maneuverable. Myopias travel faster for the most part, not bicycles can't go faster but IPOs do travel at high rate speed particularly when two people who are on a [xx] are going down a hill in the mountain areas, they don't have really the breaking capability of most bicycles. To get to train, decide [xx] or real issue because myopia drivers drive them as if they are automobile bills, they drive center lanes whereas bicycles drive on the shore of the road we need to take some initial steps to get myopia drivers to be responsible with what they are doing, I understand the need transportation from working school, but these were just basically things we do in society as being responsible for things you do. Representative Pius. I had a representative Shepherd make the coin, but if I have a DUN I have lost my life and you still don't love me to be on the road on more moped is that/ Is that correct if I'm wrong I'm hearing couple of things if I'm out the rural areas I've had a DUI three or four times I've got a moped you're going to let me get insurance but I don't have the [xx] to right or wrong on that, isn't that right? You are right, as of now you can be on a highway with a DUN or you could have lost your driver's licensing effort[sp?] [xx] You can still in North Carolina at this time there are no restrictions on mopeds whatsoever. So all this does is say if you are going to be on the road and you have lost your driver's licence or whatever, you must have liability insurance to cover you if you get in an accident with someone else. and that's what this says, is to make sure that you are responsible so that as James Steven told me last week, he didn't have to pay it all out of his pocket. Follow up. Now if you all think it's fair for the innocent person to pay the bill for those people that are irresponsible, then don't vote for this bill. [xx] so you'd say that, it's all right with the judges or somebody for you to be on the road, rip [xx] even though you've lost your life, then you've had the [xx], and could have, you could be drunk driver on the Moped, so you. And they're. Okay, all right. Mr. Chair, as I stated before, there are no restricts in the North Carolina on Moped. Thank you sir. I just asked the question. [xx] We are talking about the Moped [xx]

[xx] anything but [xx] No, there is maximum ranging size, but 50-60 I believe is correct that doesn't stipulate what the injure configuration is, so it's 50-50 maximum I imagine different technologies can provide different outputs based on 50CCs. Follow up. I want [xx] people [xx]. Well, that's the point right now. Right now? Yeah, right now. Correct. where does [xx] go? Is there any [xx] Obligated to respond that Mr Chair, If that wasn't covered in transportation now we had inspections all year, but it was really the transportation committee to take inspections off and we were amendable to their desire. Thank you. Chairman [xx] in here I have a question for Representative Brown, She said earlier that there were statistics about more programs that they were involved in criminal activities, and all kinds of other actions, and I would like to know where that statistic came from and that documendation, is there anything that needs to back this up? Thank you for that question. I can get that for you in here, and I have to look for if there's [xx] study, I think from 2005-2010, I could be wrong. [xx] and the amount of time. If that was [xx] is a frequent ended up in a trauma department they did a study on every single posting that [xx], then they tailored the motocycle to the code. Follow up. Mr. Chair. In respond to that I believe the study told us from Baptist Hospital that out of 539 that were involved in accidents this fall[sp?], they came through Baptist Hospital [xx] most of them that 31% of them had criminal records, 60% of them don't have employment. Representative horn Thank you ladies and gentlemen. We start to learn statistics about criminal activities we in the door because the reason I bring this up there are a lot of really poor people still in this state, they can't afford a car, they need food on their table able and their way of getting to work to find job and getting to work and supporting a family, they need a myopia, they need something, so are we talking about you said 500 folks that had criminal records of DWI out of how many are of a 1000 all over 150, 000? Holar I apologize, in respect to the democratic members of the legislation there and would like the house have an adjustment two o'clock this means standing in [xx] to 15 minutes every session secret [xx]