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House | March 24, 2015 | Committee Room | House: University Education

Full MP3 Audio File

Seats and visitors retire back to the back of the committee room, I will call the house committee on universities to order. We have of a couple of pages with us today, we have Tyri Rhodes sponsored by representative Shelling Willengham[sp?], Jaden Cheese sponsored by representative Rosa Gill, Amy Clemence sponsored by representative Paul Stem and Amanda Cole sponsored by representative Jeff Collins. Our Sargent of arms that are with us today, Mr. bay Mr. Bill Morris and Mr. Jim Marran[sp?] we'll get start get started right now with house bill 72, there is a PCS if I could get a motion to bring that before the commitee, representative Mackgresddy[sp?] makes some motion second, seconded by representative Moore, seeing the PCS properly before us, representative Hurley you have the floor to explain your bill Thank you Mr. Chair, committee members, we had this the last committee meeting, you all wanted to vote I do need a note from the staff, what was proposed, what was changed for the proposed committee substitute? Staff if you could make [xx] In the proposed committee substitute the primary changes are in section two of the bill. Section two of the bill had someone deprocative language and part A that instructed the school of government to do what is already required in section one of the bill. so the language that basically instructed them to do the same thing twice was removed, the other changes that were made was to clearly identify those of rules lather than just I believe the term that was used before was standards and because rules is constantly used under the APA we changed that language, and the final change was to clarify the effective take and time for application the standard to the new pilots to make it clear that it will begin with June 120 17 for any power enacted after that date. Thank you. Thank  you so this is to make sure that in the future pilot programs that are done, hopefully will have standards and we've asked the institute of government to do these standards so that's what this does and we discussed it in the staff, told you what it was all about mass committee meetings so. Representative [xx] you're recognized. Thank you Mr. chairman is one of the primary sponsors of this bill along with representative Harley[sp?] I remember the committee at the appropriate time I'd like to make a motion. Hold that motion any other questions for the bill sponsor? Seeing none it looks like it is time for that motion there is a zero referral to appropriations. Thank you Mr. Chairman I move for favorable report to the PCAS for house bill 782 as and referred to appropriations. Members you hear the motion before you, all in favor say I, no, the Is have it, the bill passes, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Next up we have house bill 129 this is also a PCS if I can get a motion to bring that before the committee. Representative [xx] make some motion second, representative more [xx] the bill is properly before us representative Armor you have the floor. Thank you Mr chairman. What you have in front of you is what is called the high achieving tuitions scholarship, and some goals of the program is to try to help encourage in high performing students to continue to collage level, also to try to utilize the state educational resources student [xx], create more educational and clear options for or students, which we all know we have worked for its development needs in our state we give you the I on's and out's of the program. Who would qualify for the program is a high school student that would have a 3.5 unwaited[sp?] GPA. So we are not looking at a waited grades the unwaited. To qualify for it you can see some other aspects of requirements their citizenship and then they get into a community college curriculum program and they cannot have a fail in the either. If you continue through the bill how the money works with this is the scholarship would make the student whole and representative [xx] can explain this a little bit more if I don't explain it that well. Let's say that a student qualifies for [xx] monies but they only receive half of the tuition cost this would fill the other half. So it doesn't have a

set amount of money per head because that can vary it could be $200 for one kid it could be a $1000 for another kid based on the financial assistance that they receive. So to maintain that scholarship the student has to have and this was just a suggestion by the community college committee a cumulative GPA of 3.0 at the community college level. So that gives the student a little bit of wiggle room when they hit the college level course work that if they do really poorly in the first semester, they can pick it up second semester to where they're looking at a cumulative 3.0. That stand is pretty consistent with how other States handle their similar programs, also that's even more stringent than the more head scholarship from what we found out in a research. They have to take a minimum of 30 semester hours that's 15 per semester do very much a full load and also to the student cannot receive sort of felony convictions during that time. If they do not meet those requirements the scholarship can be revoked. Another component of the scholarship is that if the student participates in this they do have deffered a mission to the university, so let's just use ASU for example. If the student applied to ASU and got in and if they agreed to participate in this and they meet all of these requirements and are not kicked out of the program, their mission to ASU is [xx] and they can get in there [xx] their junior year through the transfer program. I gave you a little hand out that explains kind of some of the points of the goals there and you can look through those charts if you have any questions but to me this will help us be a little bit more competitive with our neighboring states, border states have similar programs to this or Georgia, South Carolina and Tenesee have different flavors of this kind of program. Members are there any questions for the bill sponsor? Representative William[sp?] Thank you Mr chairman I was looking at the bill in section five, scholarship revocation this is in reference to the failure to maintain a 2.5 grade 1 average and then if you section two it says that you must maintain the well in section section 4 you have to maintain a three-point grade one average. Does this mean that if a student goes below three points, lets say 2.6 and still not having three point the semester this person would be in the program or out of the program? Representative, if you'll refer to the PCS on the bill that issue was addressed, that was brought up in the community college committee, how it reads now is a cumulative 3.0, great point average for the year say semester one they ended up with a 2.8, the second semester their performance would have to be higher to get that average of the 3.0. Follow up Thank you. Representative [xx], Thank you Mr chairman I guess, just a quick overview of this, I wonder if we begin to [xx] away at the people who pay tuition if we go continue going too far, we are going to wonder who is left to pay the tuition and my concern is that, this is just a program to reward a certain group and then next year wherever somebody is going to come along with a program to award another group. And all in all in order to keep the communities collages Bible, we have to have a certain amount of income and then that will end up following on the state to make it up. It is just a concern and I kind of got reaction to that, may be if you have reaction just to that. Representative [xx] Thank you Mr. Chairman, this is a merit based scholarship these are your, these is geared towards

your top performing kids in your schools, so it's not having to do wih their own personal circumstances or anything else has to do with them working to maintain that high grade point average in high school and then this would be part of it just like a scholarship that they might apply for that's a merit based scholarship from any other type entity. The numbers that I gave you on the sheet there that is not tuition cost, that is cost on the State less their tuition on those numbers there. Follow up. Representative [xx] you're recognized the second time. Thank you, in section two eligibility you said you have to have a 3.5 unweighted grade point average prior to enrolling the semester prior to that example now when I graduated from high school earned a scholarship but I stayed out a year and then I went the following year in this case I would not have qualified according to this, If I were else before this scholarship but I stayed out of here, is that correct? Representative yes, that is correct because one of the goals of the scholarship is to try to move people into the workforce quicker, so yes. You are not qualified by sitting there now the year. Follow up. Representative Mitchell. Yes, I've got a question about money is coming from for the scholarship. Representative Omare. Right now how this is wanted separate propration, if you look at section eight that two million dollars and then there is some money in that appropriation dealing with actual administration to the state education system study. Follow up representative Mitchell I guess, I was wondering how much you in pages on another scholarship, where this money is coming from [xx]. Need the scholarship funds by universities, he pay scholarship funds for community college, how was that going and [xx]. Representative Omare I think your questions will be of more with the appropriations committee. Representative [xx] does have a serial referral to all the appropriations. Representative Katie[sp?]. Thank you Mr chairman, I just have a question about section 9 and then in section 10 about the role that the board of governors is going to play in this I don't think this was the best constituents institution, I was wondering what the universities take is on this bill. Representative Elmore? I've worked with the university liason[sp?] on the wording the bill and he actually has talked with me about the changes that we've made with the articulation agreements et cetera, they feel comfortable with the flow of this from my understanding Representative Martin. Thank you Mr chair, just a clarification as we are talking about funding and the goals of this program and it be a merit based, it came to me that the students who are qualified for this scholarships would likely also be accepted into our university system and that in reality this is kind of a cost saving measure for the state where we're encouraging this folks to go to the community college for 2 years under scholarship and then move to the university system, and they can save money and we can save money. And so when we looked at that in the appropriation, that is just not something I will be either or, this student are probably going to go to collage, they are highly achieving so they go to a university system it will cost us more money and this is potentially a way to insenevice them to get a lower cost education and then move through, am I reading this wrong or is that correct? Representative Elmore Thank you Mr. Chairman. I think the best way you can look at it is the circumstance of the child. And I'll give you a story about a child that I tutored, in upper bound program. She lived in North West Ache

they rule way out as a matter of fact you had to drive into Tenasse to get into her house, okay she was a cheerleader she had to stay in town to be able to go to the cheerleading practices because she lives so far out. She received a full merit-based scholarship to East Carolina but because she was living with her grandparents, she was fearful of their health, she had to help out at home the student ended up going to Wills Community College because that was the best fit for her in her circumstance, personal circumstance this would allow a student that is a highly achieving student to have some more options. Follow up representative Brown. Thank you Mr. Chair, just a quick question I didn't see it in the bill. Is there any requirement as to difficulty in the level difficulty that these students are supposed to have in their course of study? Representative Elmore. The way that it is structured right now if the student is going to work for the transfer program, they have to be enrolled in the transfer program but we also awared it to where these student less to get some sort of certification. They want to become a plumber, or they want to do the welding program. They have the ability to make that choice if they choose to so they can do the transfer program or they can do those specific workforce training program if they would like. Follow up. I think the reason I asked this is because there has just been so many questions about pill grants and now you're going to link the to the pill grants and there has been fraud in these grants and one of the areas was in the difficulty of classes that were signed up for and taken by the folks that were getting these grants so by your linking it to your it just makes me a little just to question it just a little bit more, just to comment thank you Mr. Chair. Representative Connie. Thank you maybe a question or two. Can you define for me or maybe it's here the high achieving student? What is a high achieving student that would qualify for this program? Representative Elmore High achieving would be defined in section two follow up.  A follow up, I've been piggy backing a little bit Brown's question, if the students are coming out of high school with a 3.5 GPA, what is the expectation of our community colleges to provide that high level of course load is that available at our community college for the even students?   Representative Elmore. If the chairman doesn't mind I would like the Community College System to address this question. Absolutely if you State your name for the record. Good morning, my name is Jennifer Haden, I'm executive vice president chief financial officer for the community college system as the representative for Elmore stated, the student who would qualify for this scholarship would have flexibility in what course to study, that they wanted to pursue of course if there was a college transfer to course of study they would be involved in college level courses that would articulate and move to our university system and so we have believe in the quality of all of our courses. Observer Colleague do you have a follow up?  I'll hold a minute. Representative Hastings. I have one question and I'm sure I'm going to have just least just one follow up and I didn't serve in the community college committee so back in 2011 when we transition everything to career and college promise, we gave that option to kind of do this while still in highs school, so this is just another opportunity for a young person it seems but I have a question about those of us who have grown up in North Carolina, we've always viewed the community college well it is a little different. It's open it's accessible, it's convenient a lot of times it's for people who

don't want a four-year degree from Chapel Hill or ASU or wherever and so did you go through that thought process and what are your thoughts on the fact that this is moving the community colleges kind of in a different direction and then just to work that in I won't have a follow up you can work that in. You know I just took electrical wiring and carpentry at our local community college, and some of the students who were in the class were having to take regular courses to get their two year degree, they were going to have to take English, but honestly, they didn't care about English, and they didn't care about geography, they just wanted to get the courses out of the way so you're going to be having to figure out ways to put an electrical wiring student who doesn't care about English so to speak and with other people who are actually going to have to perform at a college level so they can succeed when they transfer to a four-year university. Did you guys think about this and what were your thoughts on? Representative Elmore. Yes I understand where you're coming from representative Hastings. That's reason why we try creating flexibility with it. So if the students does choose to go into a plumbing type of program and that's what they want to do that's fine they can do that. I relate a lot of my bills to my own personal situation. I have a four-year degree and I teach school and the reality of it is I could and become a plumber and probably make three times what I'm making currently as a teacher if I'm willing to work so we're trying to create that flexibility to put the skill workforce into economy quickly or the student can utilize hard training onto the university, it's up to them and the needs of the workforce in the area.   Follow up. And that brings me back to that question though try not to take too much time respect the other member but you're going to have some younger people who are expected to do a minimal level of your core course work because they're going to they don't really want to be an academic PhD. So are you still going to have to deal with some people who really just want to get through a basic English course, while you've got other people in that class being taught by a professor with a masters or a PhD. And they're going to have to perform in a high academic level when it comes to English and some of those core courses and I still don't really see how that's going to make maybe I'm just missing the point then I'm sure it will be worked out but. Representative would you like to make a comment? No. Representative Holloway. Thank you Mr. Chair and I want to thank the bill sponsors for bringing this bill to the committee. I think it's a very good bill. I also just want to state that it's not about the universities, it's not about the community colleges, it's about the kids. It's about providing options for them. I taught school before I started this call profession or career job whatever you want to call it here. So I did the same thing that the representative Velmore did and you got a large dynamic of kids out there. You have got a lot of kids that may be able to get into the university system. They can get in but they may not be able to pay for it, they may not get any financial assistance offered to them, and this is just another option to maybe hope to keep that child in the school system just so that they can get the skills to better themselves, have a bright career and just keep in mind again it's not about the universities and how many they get, it's not about giving more to the community colleges this is just all about the kids, helping them and have more options for them, I think it's a good bill and I want to thank again the bill sponsor for bringing it to us. Representative Rein Brown. Thank you Mr. Chair, Really responding to representative away comments, what is the average tuition cost for one semester for a full load worth 16 at a university verses a community college. I put myself through my masters program, I commuted, it wasn't difficult to do and I'm a social worker that never made much money and I did it effortlessly so I don't really understand why this bill would make it more affordable for community colleges when I think they are ultimate, they are very affordable as compared to a fur year university so if you can just tell me if you know a ball part numbers one versus the other for a years tuition or a

semesters or whatever but full time thank you Mr Chair. Representative Almore two numbers that I have in front of me, one of these numbers you have on your sheet there. The states cost on average for the UNC system is 13, 419 dollars. That is the state's cost this average tuition fees on top of that is $6182 now that's an average some of from a higher one of the UNC Chapel Hill the state cost is a little over $20, 000 that's the states portion not counting the tuition the tuition there is now the student portion is 8100 the cost per FTE at the community college is $4401 is the state portion. Now of the student proportion on that, I would have to ask staff because it's based on pro-credit hours than it maxes out at a number. Staff Mr. Chair, if it's OK I think someone from the community college system will be best to answer that Yes. Jennifer Hegan again our current tuition rate is $72 for credit hour that maxes out at $1152 for a academic term. Representative Brandy you have a follow up? Representative Hastings. just one final question and I'm not bulging this is very respectful because going to commit with college and university but and what I was clarifying to representative Fraley is, he was saying you are not going to worry about some of the student because they're going to be 3.5 level they're going to be pretty serious students and my question went to the hand off they're going to be in class with someone who really doesn't care about performing in English and literature and so forth, they just want to get their electrical wiring certification or something of that sort and so it was that differentiation level been in education how difficult differentiation can be so either they're going have to have possibly a class set aside for those kids and not just kids but also adults who might be intermixed in those classes unless they have a separate divided out class to handle these people otherwise they are going to be in classes with say adults who are taking the carpentry program but they have to take an English class to and that's what I was getting at. I don't think I made myself clear but Would you like to speak to that?   Sure. I understand now more what you're addressing. You have these programs in the community colleges which are the transfer programs and you have the certification programs and what this would allow the kid is they can blend that shoe, that certificate if they would like our related to some of my kids at home some of the kids at home, some of the kids would like to manage their parents firm, when they get out of school, this firm in operations are some more than a multi-million dollars operations, you are talking about eight nine different chicken houses with million dollars in each house, and they are looking for the skill set to be able to run that small business etc and be able to get out, so I think you are addressing an issue that is a concern of mine with economy like it years the land of blending skilled work force and more academic are very much broad now not as much as they used to be years ago meaning we have high performing students very interested in CTE programs at the high school level we have other high performing students that are interested in that 4 year pattern. Any further questions from the committee. Seeing none, we are ready for a motion, Representative Martin there is a serial referral to appropriations Thank you, I make a motion for a favor of our report to House Bill 129 along with the serial referral to appropriations. The proposed committee substitute unfavorable to the original Thank you, members you've heard the motion before you, all in favor say I, all oppose no, in the opinion of the chair the I have it and the bill passes their business in front of this committee we adjourned.