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House | May 28, 2013 | Committee Room | Transportation

Full MP3 Audio File

McKorn being present the House Committee on transportation will come to order. Our Sergeants at Arms today are Carlton Adams, Martha Parrish, Young Bay, Jesse Hayes, and we have four pages today, Elizabeth Paulson from Wake, Savannah Putnam from Burke, Savannah Potee from Cleveland and Lucy May Rascoe from Chowan. First item on today's agenda is House Bill, Giles Perry and Brenda Carter, our staff, as usual who will perform brilliantly I'm sure as usually as we go along today and keep us out of a lot of trouble. House Bill 475 Ferry Tolling Alternatives. Representative Tine is recognized or Representative Jeter is recognized to present the bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chairman. I do not believe we have a PCS in front of us as the original bill. In essence we have seven, I'm gonna try to be brief and be happy to answer your questions. We have seven ferry routes in North Carolina. Surprisingly we have the second largest ferry system of all 50 states which was surprising to me, second behind only Washington. Traditionally the ferry routes had been free. We're in the process of getting ready to toll those ferry routes. Two are tooled now are getting ready to extend those to the other five. For most people you think of ferry routes as particularly on our coast being Harris or ?? or whatever these most tourist routes. You have to remember a lot of these like ?? Beach, Cherry Branch and some of these things are commuter routes, people going forth to and from work every single day. So this is a significant impact on their life. What this bill attempts to do is to put off tolling for a year and allow the ferry division of NCDOT and the local communities to come up with ancillary revenue streams whether it be selling naming rights on the ferry lines, whether it be selling advertisement actually on the ferry boat itself. We're not going to allow permits of license on the back of the ferry because I don't want that discussion again. Also concessions in other things. So it's a way of looking at basically using advertising sponsorship and concessions to augment the cost verses tolling our citizens that have to use this to get back and forth to work everyday. This is a bill that has got bipartisan support. Representative Tine who lives in that area. Representative Iler who lives in that area. Then myself and Representative Torbett who are 250 miles away from the closet one. We all took a tour out there and toured the ferry system and met with the people and we strongly believe this is the right thing to do for the community and a good thing for the state and ask for your favorable report. We're happy to answer any questions. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Iler is recognized to send forth an amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chairman wholehearted support the bill, except on one little detail. The bill has got zero tolls. There are three routes that are tolled currently . My amendment will do only one thing, keep the tolls the same while we're going through this process as they are. This says May 1st, but basically as they are right now. Don't change the tolls. The Southport route and the two long routes I call them will still be tolled at the current rate, will not go up, and it will keep it just like they are now, not go to zero, not jerk DOT around. That's all the amendment would do. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Jeter is recognized to comment on the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] We're not opposed to the amendment. It wouldn't be our preference, but we're ok with it. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Bumgardner. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I want to speak on the bill when we get through with the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Ok. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Please. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Moffitt. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chair. A question for the amendment sponsor. Does your amendment essentially negate the need for a fiscal note? [SPEAKER CHANGES] I believe that would negate the need for a fiscal note. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Could we confirm that with staff? I believe that would be correct. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative this would receive a serial referral to finance and I think a fiscal note would definitely be required to be presented at that time. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chair. Further discussion for the debate on the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Chairman. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes Mr. ?? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Can I modify my response to Representative Moffitt? What I meant was no fiscal effect. I didn't know if it was a fiscal note required or not. I

Let's listen in to answer other question that there is said July 1 there are new tolls and increases on battered above the column that universally a fiscal no required to do is to change the law which would happen to love for further discussion on them and then represents parts of the little flaky was cents on system in the changes that tells one has occurred ?? (SPEAKER CHANGES )what would be to allow the first felt the main groups into effect of the work of them as far as the global revision, saying the measure as the answer to all interested parties involved and they can give me the question that Russian what is a chronic told that has been charged and what would the Colby home to allow the first of this year's losses to undo Zepa while all three, from a Buddhist of four various $5.00 each way in which they said dollars each way to be no change in the other two labs will be no change represent, specifically would go on the serology to come from 15 to 27 dollars plus five capacities on just parcel passenger their higher four boat trailers from losses from things like that on the slope Orosco 15 to 27 plus $5.00 per individual passenger on currently four young cherry branch, go to four plus $1.00 per passenger beg your words, for a reported $10.00, some folks, freeman, $4.00 plus $1.00 for bass. Part of his free to go to four plus $1.00 production is chairman of life and living on the phone call it based on Monday that can never be no change into a first lady was a player is what if a disability and not pass with a letter from them and mental abilities, rates are too obvious building only wrote the memo would become the same sort of a from represented Blackwell say (SPEAKER CHANGES) bible passage represented by Mr. Allen as Britain dollar additional clarification on the men and five for how long is that with that has been selected facing alternative would be permanent two million American women the same time isn't as a build something to this mail what is the data to become law Olmsted helmet and vision … Specifically say when you're charged us a promotional and 14 GB process would back the goal is to have one year of a cushion line change direction I recommend well as Mario bill and therefore you will hear by the year before we implemented across represented play one lead to more listen more confused again on the bill's (SPEAKER CHANGES)sponsors saying that we have the year and is built around the on the amendment as saying that the tolls betacam and fours 1 July of leaders will not commit four still be contacted the way I read the bill the bill would stop the toll from coming into forest 1 to 1 now I guess my question is the only thing that the amendment does his insurer that some goals are presently enforceable stanford's is that correct in Vietnam has occurred there simply are correct errors in message we're talking about Siano, which currently has a $15.00 toll as for morale and has $15.00 toll or Russian bombing of Baghdad dollars if the bill passed SB S those 15 are just involved Galway or use any other five leading before orgasm in the Gaza sang those two routes are carrier: $15.00 will state status clout and every wall at: or to the other five runs to pace to win some and I just keep us where we are back , let's go to the scar to addresses should have played a lot, colleges and a ??...............

Speaker: Either the bill nor the amendment is specific as to to the time what can be done the amendment simply said that the amendment cannot be ?? it disallows the race structure the ?? does the bill change anything to race structure clarifies, Speaker Changes: follow up, Speaker Changes: after we vote on the amendment, Speaker Changes: further discussion Representative ?? on the amendment, Speaker Changes: does this keep the ?? from going up anytime in the future if the race needs just to cover the operation cost on the ?? currently do we have to come back legislative change that , Speaker Changes: ??, Speaker Changes: the amendment does not prevent it from going up because that is done recognizing at the authority discussed in the administrative ??, Speaker Changes: further discussion further debate on the amendment Representative holly, Speaker Changes: thank you Mr.Chair i got a question if this bill passes and they come up with, Speaker Changes: on the amendment Speaker Changes: on the amendment that's what I'm saying what the amendment parted this bill if everything goes to or the toes that others go make the way if we always stay so they wont be considered as part of the other five that means appropriation, Speaker Changes: what I'm gonna ask with general AD to hold that question to see whether the amendment pass or doesn't because that really a question about t the would or not this specific on the amendment further discussion and debate on the amendment appearing none the motion is should be put forth by Representative ?? by adopted favor say aye opposed in the opinion for the chair the aye is have it we are now debating the bill as amended the Representative holly is recognized fro a question , Speaker Changes: thank you again my question is that will those two fairly said ?? on them be incorporated in the negotiations of possible as the kinds of funds as these are, Speaker Changes: i think the bill has amendment is silent as to that it could be as not required to be Representative ?? , Speaker Changes: thank you Mr.Chairman when you were looking at alternatives what all do you a longer list than the list you have here , Speaker Changes: i mean in essence the list yours is is the list in for of you we don't necessarily eliminate the list ?? we are trying legitimate ways to waste revenue ?? coming back after second a fairy system cost 35 million dollars to operate in North Carolina thus case in area if we told every round money s cost to collect it if you talking about somewhere Around five million dollars and then a 3.9 million ?? that a same ten percent of you will ?? in order to offset the total cost and our point is we were trying to find ways operate ?? in what the revenues would be created so we are looking in essence of five million dollars and these are ways in what we could talk about the ?? representative ?? went out there and talked to the different peoples these were things united with chambers and commerce and county commissioners and E DC's and we will end of the business and we felt like avenues that could raise funds necessary not to implement these additional thoughts , Speaker Changes: can i follow up, Speaker Changes: yes follow up, Speaker Changes: did you say that there is any lemme say lemme ask you this is the overwhelming ?? that collected by people and lived down there and worked there,

Let the Federal and we're casual , actually I could just use the exact numbers of all of which warns the unitary for some that are on routes that are all in almost 100% people and living and working the community on the ones like overcome very on the one just 1/4 inches long and falling work and shop before they have to ride out the pay the taxes after I got one to serve on jury duty, etc. so it can really knows there cannot talk a lot and stands Nichols. I almost would do any good, said people the way of buying into were down there and littlest pay tolls to rhyme or not but it's just an idea and I appreciate that sentiment could be as an extension of our highway system in its ongoing support of the industry which is for some are also manufacturing is one of the ferries on bad that supports manufacturing plant and down processing plant in a number of homes sold in it's just like any other transportation system throughout the state we chose to have ferries in this area nine and we estimate collectively of North Carolina State and across two billion dollars to build bridges for the five most reasonable routes we operate home for seven or call seven doubled for about 361000000 some units that's the reason round of the bridges as more prospective keep running on these the scariest of a stress pension system just like it is in the world from industry ?? (SPEAKER CHANGES) represented more than Senator Paul Flynn is chairman of the war years away Hollander the region code ?? low because of the argument from home, no place in the great world for one star blood without talking to somebody who's going to try to exploit information from basically one of the commute illustrations and clearly been wrongly and they were consoled. And then give them a call and we're all in the routing their own and pull the car of Oakland and try to an end to Greensboro open another letdown dressed women or that are consumed by betrayer represents with a ferry and come to local two to say there's a mole than to try to argue that that should not be paid four and somewhere in the people you know, mom, I wondered if a storm like the original hours of talk about a wonder if you look at a commuter fee as opposed to merge the only problem with the knowledge 5¢ Mondays was also a feeling we just 257 era of his supporters were just 5 minutes to the folks who don't work for the rich and they say will go to the report might travel to the plate four in some way to pay for them in the column. (SPEAKER CHANGES) Take a moment of creation of work. Chairman of the SEMATECH and have little bit from areas they handled as an arrest the OT one, version platform and pass sub-$200 L embraces somebody can call for air and moral of the software would love to take away and then the source of all?? (SPEAKER CHANGES) the five frustration brown is not attend all each way and that each day is coming and skin grafts and 7¢ per day which is this the pressure is truly a woodland, issues of the stability as such but a person community network or given 50 or one of days per year, to an all cash or $50.00 for the press will begin at 7769 however this line at 20 \-year high in my dad would follow what by U.S. representative, but not register call people we call your argument that would respectfully disagree with this there's no option for people hope there is no road damage was to be forgotten by great for bail out failed Friday, was slain by a trucking company of data taken by ??....

Want to go, but they don't have a choice. We went out there, and I tell you the one thing that hit me home. And I'm gonna take a comment form Torbett. Unless he tells me not to cos he don't know what I'm going to say. People say, “well you knew they were on an island. You knew there weren't roads.” But they also knew we had a free ferry system going to that island. Trust me if we could fish I-12, highway 12. if we could build this billion dollar worth of bridges, everybody on this island would preferred it, because. We talked to a woman who had to take her kid to a dentins. Its a three and a half hour trip. For a 15, 20 minute dental appointment. Because of the way the system is working. Trust me if they thought they could get a billion dollars of bridges build here. You wouldn’t be hearing this. You be having this room packed full of people. So they don't have a choice, to drive. There only option is this NC ferry system. All that they are asking is that they not be penalized for it. Well they could swim. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. Representative Starnes [SPEAKER CHANGES]. Thank you mister chairman. Members of the comity, well is not a simple solution to the problem, or we would've already figure out a long time ago. But I think that under the current law, if nothing happens. The fifteen dollars tolls are going to go to 27 dollar plus so much per passengers. The tolls are slated to increase, and the reason they are lated to increase, is because of the operating deficit that they have. It cost more to operate them than the money generated. So I think that what the bill sponsors have attempted to do. Lest see if there is another way to generate income to help pay for this tolls. Whether you get it as advertising, naming rights, charge for Internet access. Well I think that, that's good. But I thing were I'm having trouble with the bill is you should use this additional resources of revenue. To complement the existing tolls not to supplant them. When you look at the title of the bill and the intent of the original bill say. An act to remove mandatory tolling and I don't think we want to go back that far. If you look at the language line 10 though 13 that's been stroked. You basically says that we've establish a policy that Okra cock to Harris ferry will be for free and the Nox island ferry will be free. Because those are the only road access out there. They don't have another choice but for the other ferries they are charging a fee. Representative Boles amendment says that they can continue to collect the same amount of fees. But I don't think we want to go in the direction of abolishing all the tolls on the ferry system. Because we cant afford to operate what we got. I poll the sponsors of this bill, of trying to find the ways. To enhance the revenues by this alternative means. I don't thing that you wanna say that one of the options is to remove mandatory tolling. And I really think that we need to fix the title of the bill as well. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. Mr. chairman if I could respond real quick. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. Alright representative Jeter go ahead. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. Representative Starnes I'll be hones with you. I'm optimistic we are going to be able to find enough money to offset the entire cost. I think this is, do I think we can do it in year one, no. do I think we can do it in year five. I don't know. This to us is the first step, in trying. Even if we toll every one of this ferris you are talking a bout 5 million dollars, on a 36 million dollars cost. To toll it to the point were it actually covered the cost would diminish the economic ?? the community to a point. That the ferries almost become. You are going to kill business. If the toll were at the level to cover the 36 million dollars in total cost. So we are looking at ways of augmenting that. I would like to think that at some point we could come up with enough strategies as representative Bumgardner eluded to earlier. Are there other avenues. I'm sure there are. But we haven't thought of them jet. But to me this is a step, to try to get us, to try to find a way to pay for this system. With out tolling someone that we don't currently do for the most part in our interstate system. And for this people this is there interstate

That's a play with the latest chairman of the hum of fantasies goal to lead however we have been looking for transportation dollars and up and ready to go to a descent $3.9 million is the proper the Balkan we should worry about a decade from one project we need every dollar we can five this bill will stop calling. Except for one represented by lawyers and amended on three goals and they will remain the same as they were in the press as a step backward smallest of four I do believe that we should look for other options to raise money come from Ferris (SPEAKER CHANGES) I am amazed that finale banks that was caused to the people about their family came up with the use of $5.00 a month told take which should be sensible why it was never got my ability and that really have a problem with which is stopping them the water on the calling process and neither did not say that it is not something I think we should do it is something that needs to continue discussion of these options to be looked at the end of (SPEAKER CHANGES) discussion is still four wheel one stopper represented Moffett wrote that is chaired by just so the question for a discipline to call a question for the bill's sponsors and possibly for staff understand what the bill's sponsors a condom accomplished would get the argument Monday there are a good arguments on both sides of the issue but quite frankly don't have enough data from 8 to 5 weeks on the issue a walk around like that if you provide members of the committee other data from this committee worth if you decide to devote all newest members of financing to provide is the data and regards to the polls the amount the tolls or Peter K, Ralph be to break it down by passenger by passenger vehicle also bought for a vehicle that will be very beneficial to all fours chair product you'd be dead before you wanted to die are you want at 0452, click this chair, 50th get the bill is to be voted on a transportation to build voters supported the bill and I would like information before I consider the bill and finance, having is a sterile referral to finance has been in 12 when we take a motion with the move to refer clients that the mother represents nine Danish air from Yacolt Spiegel man like that which the only Coach Tom outer shell with their lead a free clinic as much they can and can't live from the home agent for the infrastructure of doing business out there in 1980 we talk about the roles compare to those dollars a meeting maker sensual needs that way and so I can see the connection L in Amman the polls were identified peaks achieved by writing paper money come from college or the chance to relax clump validated a policy that need to find something that they would be little more noticeable families of them good long-term a look that good options for the people in the community bank fourth in the opening of those losses for trip, five cities routinely can I hope you guys are successful the community of Britain Wilkins like a misstep that the final plan represents (SPEAKER CHANGES) should well as the following the Iowa Rome in Monday's men got a problem with the built on two of my question to stand for nothing much to cheer would be on those file a roman would create all the situation in which to five with the amending benefits local level removal with commending him and boating owners were searchable bill that goes exactly 1 hour and Cleveland walks and that is to come up with creative ideas for funding this card ??...........

Does remove mandatory ??, because the language in the bill is being stricken through, says that the department shall collect tolls, as established by the board of transportation. It also says, the board of transportation shall establish tolls for all ferry routes. That is being removed. The bill does in fact remove mandatory tolling? [SPEAKER CHANGE] That means we don't have to change the title? Okay. Titles good. Representative Carney. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Thank you Mr. Chairman. I understand what the bill sponsors are trying to do. This has been an issue, it has always been an issue. I think that we should, today, move this forward. The bill sponsor said that it's for one year. However, it does not say that in the bill. So, would you be willing, with our amendment, we've now got a year. The tolls are staying in place with no change to help the people on the coast that live there and have to deal with this everyday of their life. It doesn't affect the current revenue that's coming in for the ferry's, we're talking one year. Would you be open to an amendment that would . . . I guess I'd let staff find out where to put it in, but to put in here that in one year you'd report back to transportation oversight with what you have found through the department about the generation of new revenues. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Yes. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Representative Carney, would that be something we can take to finance, because we're up against a hard stop at 12:50pm. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Mr. Chairman, I'm totally open to that since I'm on finance. I just want to make sure that the members of the committee that have concerns about voting it out today, knowing that that will happen, that we'll give this a year and we'll put this in finance in a bill, if you could support this bill to move it forward. We need to have this conversation. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Representative Blackwell. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'll try to be quick. I think this is a good bill, I hope that the committee will support it. It may be something that I am missing here, but I think of North Carolina, as largely having a free systems to of roads for all its residents. We who live closer to the mountains, I think, would be very disturbed if somebody said, well lets start charging all of the tourist that come across the line and they're going up to Chimney Rock, and Asheville, and Lake Laurel, and ?? Rock. We're going to start charging them a toll for going over the roads. As I understand for these people, where this ferry runs there is no other option, essentially available for many of them. When we talked about tolling Interstate 95, we said we had to keep lanes open, because we wanted to give people another option. And, if they choose to use the fast lane and pay the toll, that's fine. I understand that between Durham and Raleigh that they've an expressway, but it's not the only route a person has to choose from. The proposed, Garden State Parkway, maybe its not Garden State, Garden Parkway. Which may not get built would be an alternative route that people could pay a toll on. This seems to me inappropriate for tolling because there is not another alternative. We don't want to spend the money to build the bridge, which would be the traditional road, so a flatbed truck or a ferry seems to me an appropriate choice. I feel like doing this for one year is the right way to go. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Representative Art. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Yes, one quick question. I keep hearing about the year, I'm confused, is that in the bill or what are we doing with the year? [SPEAKER CHANGE] We just agree with Representative Carney, if you take me at my word, and I hope you would. That we would make sure that that is included in finance, that is the intent. It's not specifically outlined in the current bill, we will fix that in finance. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Will somebody else give me their word? [SPEAKER CHANGE] Mr. Chairman? [SPEAKER CHANGE] Representative Pittman is recognized for a motion. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Thank you, Mr Chairman. I move to favor a report on House Bill 475, as it was amended to referral to finance. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Representative Pittman moves that the House Bill 475, as amended, being incorporated into a new PCS, favorable PCS, unfavorable at the original bill, referral to finance. Submitting in favor of the motion say aye.

Opposed? Motion carries. Representative ??. House bill 556 various special plates. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'll try and make it real quick. I had house bill 556. ?? PCS. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative ?? moves PCS on 556 without objection, so ordered. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The original house bill 556 was three innocent little plates. This is the annual plate bill. And I had a first ??, town of ??, and volunteers in law enforcement in the original bill we rolled everybody else's requests into the annual plate bill and you see the list on page one and two. Then you see the fees which accompany these and I haven't found it in the bill, but I'm sure it's there, that if they get up to three hundred applications for a plate they will be produced. I believe that's the basics of the bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Carey. [SPEAKER CHANGES] For motion at the appropriate time. [SPEAKER CHANGES] After we handle these four amendments it will be the appropriate time. I have one representative ??. [SPEAKER CHANGES] That would be correct Mr. Chairman. [SPEAKER CHANGES] This is H556-ARWF-47 version two. YMCA. Does everybody got it? Does anybody have it? Do you need to have it? Do you have city county clerk ?? clerks? Have you got the removed phi beta sigma fraternity? That's representative Ford, I believe. Will you explain the amendment, sir? [SPEAKER CHANGES] They asked to be removed. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Further discussion for the debate. Representative Ford moves that phi beta sigma be removed at their request. All in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries. Have you got YMCA now? YMCA issued motion by representative ??. All in favor? Any further discussion? Further debate? Hearing on the motion amendment for YMCA plate all in favor say aye. Opposed? Representative Brown city county clerk change to ?? clerk. Please explain the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Chair. All this does is really take out the city part of the bill and substitute the principalities for that and that will include of course townships as well as cities. There's no objection, it's just a clarification. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Further discussion. Representative ??. [SPEAKER CHANGES] How is the plate going to read? Is it going to have the acronym? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes, it will. Line eight will show you exactly how it will read. Further discussion, further debate? In favor of the amendment say aye? Opposed? Opinion of the chair, the motion carries. Representative Moffitt. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Chair. I've got a question for staff. Are there any instances where the 300 plate minimum is waived or not considered a threshold? [SPEAKER CHANGES] That's included for all the plates in this bill. All must have 300. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Okay. That's fine. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Just for comment, I think many of you may have been contacted about the full background for the smokeys plate. That's not part of this bill. That will be a separate discussion. Representative Carney recognized for motion. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'd like to move to give house bill

Fifty-six. The proposed committee substitute of favorable as amended, unfavorable to the original. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Carney moves House Bill 556 as amended rolls into a new PCS: favorable to the PCS, unfavorable to the previous PCS, and referred to Finance. Further discussion, further debate? So many as favor the motion say aye. Opposed. Motion carries and we are adjourned.