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Senate | June 19, 2013 | Committee Room | Finance

Full MP3 Audio File

Speaker : god afternoon let's call the meeting to order we have a long agenda today and like o get through it if it all possible quickly as possible we want thank ?? to the armed staff as always for the god job that they do for recognize our pages we have Jackson valentine from ash ville senator ?? i think he might me from that ?? where are you from Speaker Changes: from Burlington really Speaker Changes: ?? from apex senator ?? David Andrews Morris wills senator Stern Parker Lee from ?? senator Sanderson and Bradley Anderson from wake forest senator Sanderson welcome i hope you all learned a lot enjoyed your week ?? enjoy the day we are going to start thank you this is worthy senate bill 407 as the PCS motion to hear the PCS please from senator ?? all in favor please say aye all oppose, Speaker Changes: senator ? i know it's is a long calender so I'm going to give you a short version of this bill has heard two different bills already this establishes an electronic link titling system for state North Carolina gives D M V couple of ways to get there this system is been used in at least 19 states all up in the eastern see board and not up in the board of any opposition we worked ?? Speaker Changes: Mr.Chairman, Mr.Chairman is that ??, Speaker Changes: Mr.Chairman i don't want to hear either he is ?? or wrong version i read this bill instead ?? for favorable report Speaker Changes:thank you is there is a motion on the floor for PCS unfavorable to the original any discussion hearing all in of those in favor say aye oppose no motion clear thank you sir OK we are going to run some local bills quickly we will stat with house bill 143 thank you ?? taxes Representative Speaker Changes:?? Speaker Changes:beg you pardon Speaker Changes:?? Speaker Changes:thank you Speaker Changes: thank you Mr.Chairman members of the committee I'm happy to proceed senator ?? would like to make a motion, Speaker Changes: to have this motion before us in favorable ??, Speaker Changes: hold on hold on over here, Speaker Changes: yes sir, Speaker Changes: is the pro team OK with this, Speaker Changes: yes, Speaker Changes: OK, Speaker Changes: thank you sir , Speaker Changes: i ask you that question, Speaker Changes: he ran the same bill, Speaker Changes: ??, Speaker Changes: senator he ran the same bill ten years ago, Speaker Changes: listen motion before us will favorable motion all in favor say aye oppose motion care thank you sir 412 yes house bill 412 , Speaker Changes: 412 is the same bill with the different business duke energy and city of Eden, Speaker Changes: same result, Speaker Changes: senator burger ran this bill as well, Speaker Changes: have the motion for favorable report all in favor say aye oppose motion care who will be running on the floor please if you just ?? OK house bill 229 ??, Speaker Changes: thank you senator ?? beach in my district as well as chairman as well , Speaker Changes:Mr.Chairman, Speaker Changes: there is number of 5 and a number of 10, Speaker Changes: yes sir, Speaker Changes: as he cleared this bill with you, Speaker Changes: yes he has as a matter of fact, Speaker Changes: my move for favorable report, Speaker Changes: yes we have a motion for favorable report any discussion all in favor please say aye oppose motion care thank you Representative ?? house bill 234 Representative ??, Speaker Changes: Representative ?? you didn't share us this morning, Speaker Changes: I'll take the excuse to show it up i can, Speaker Changes: thank you ,you have the floor, Speaker Changes: the bill simple clarifies ?? laws I'll be happy answering any questions Speaker Changes:OK motion for favorable report senator brown any discussion all in favor please say aye oppose motion ?? be running on the floor,

The 51 can have the enclave that and for the timetable for that two of them off-court forehand to accommodate the modem to have opposed the motion good day: the academy, one of only about half the Leo two , and only like that word, whom he had not already have that level of them have had more than 30 block?? (SPEAKER CHANGES)David would happen if the end of this gem that can lead to the other, and said that within the someone that this time the fact that that have happened if you would lead to oppose them -day that time, they would have been helped build a 121 Marshall be encouraging recommended: that's the one that time until needs to be a tough enough wealth of the above-board court from one day and, in this collection of and then the complete that the poodle that had planned to time, bill, 20 Dec , among them the way the stand, and you would have to worry that if a lot of that time the fact that they had to am left-hand knowledge that the that old bell had given that had a one-day and all that time, date of the day, then hospital that the key from the mother's day and age, and the high and low, and-a-, -telephone network for long-leaf that goes to have had a hand-life that they have a mere fact that that by not that they can, Ted bell that led to the high end of the head end of the time that the MN, given the Canada time a mythic and medical and the banking action and have felt like I believe that page. Any active time and money are you better take that level and when that they can plan to abolish the time of the detail of that you have a report that concluded that of his discussion of them are pleased that put them, and by the end of the 11 half thank you do have the advantage of the one-time today, and a minimally a dead end of the late game of a lot of life and the day of the time that the pantheon of bread and we have moved into a definitive link of the art of them nationally that time then them dead: AP-Fierman no later than Wednesday that have traditionally low land, we have accommodated for a long time a two-handed the tournament be a long time to give me an ER , mislead the whole meal we have your view I'm taking care of the Stanley and along the staff only the conversation was sent to the embodiment long time in the gulf labeling would you like to level the benefit of a mission to submit question determined, send them away and rescue yourself home-built home ??............

or because most every business you are in or a partner in or have ownership in, almost every business any of us can think of will you have to do that? [SPEAKER CHANGES]: Well, I'm good at picking locks I can tell you that. And I used to have a locksmith license but I quit pickin' locks but if you need my services I'll volunteer them. [SPEAKER CHANGES]: Mr. Chairman, question for Senator Bingham. Did you turn your license in or was it taken? [SPEAKER CHANGES]: I've still got it in my pocket but I was supposed to mail it in Senator Apodaca. Thank you. Senator Blue. [SPEAKER CHANGES]: On a serious vein Senator Bingham, I'm trying to figure out on Line 13 you limit it to a person who works for a company. Is there any reason that you would distinguish a person who holds himself out as a locksmith, Stan's locksmith? [SPEAKER CHANGES]: Senator Blue, I have a gentleman here who is on that locksmith board and they crafted this. He is of former law enforcement and locksmith himself and so if you don't mind Mr. Chairman, I'd like. [SPEAKER CHANGES]: You'd like a friend to answer that question? [SPEAKER CHANGES]: Yeah. [SPEAKER CHANGES]: If you would approach the podium please, yeah, back in the rear of the room. I want to say stern but in the rear, and state your name please and who you are. [SPEAKER CHANGES]: I'm Steve Straub. I'm Chairman of the Locksmith Licensing Board. I have a 35-year law enforcement career, been locksmithing for about 25, and I'm sorry I couldn't understand your question Senator. [SPEAKER CHANGES]: Yeah, I'm wondering why you are distinguishing on Line 13, Page 1, your stating for us there are kinds of people or kinds of institutions that a locksmith works for and prohibiting anybody who does services only if they work for one of these entities, and I'm wondering why you exclude individuals if you're trying to regulate the whole question about locksmith services? Can you hear me okay now? [SPEAKER CHANGES]: OK, I'm sorry. We're not excludin' individuals, we're just wantin' those individuals licensed. Right now currently institutional, that being hospitals, schools, and large apartment complexes, which have access to our children's records, our health records, they're not required to be licensed and that's what we are trying to do. They actually came to ask the Institutional Association, wanting us to put this in the Bill. We have some problems, maybe I'll center on your question, in some large complexes, apartment complexes, we have a general maintenance guy doing locksmith type work that he really doesn't understand and is not trained to do, which allows one key to fit multiple apartments in the complex, which is not a good thing if you're living there. Have I answered your question? [SPEAKER CHANGES]: One follow up. [SPEAKER CHANGES]: Senator Blue, yes, if you look at Page 1 of the Bill, Lines 8 and 9, that's the current law and that requires all individuals holding themselves out as locksmiths to be licensed as a locksmith. This part was put in for referring to the Bill's institutions that employ people who engage in locksmithing for that institution. There's a broad exemption in the current law that allows... basically most companies that employ someone that does locksmithing service for those individuals to be exempt. What this law is doing is it's requiring those institutions that employ individuals to provide locksmith service, those individuals that provide the service have to be licensed as locksmiths. So that is what the language that you are pointing to does. So individuals that hold themselves out as locksmiths currently have to be licensed. [SPEAKER CHANGES]: I think I understand. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES]: Senator Hunt. [SPEAKER CHANGES]: Thank you. I think I just heard the answer to my question but I want to ask anyway. When it talks about the employee of a property owner, could that definition employee, would that encompass their agent in addition to their employee? The reason I ask that question is many property owners employ management

-- management companies to handle their property management, and I just want to make sure that agency, that agent, is covered, in this bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes sir, it is. We worked with the entities from the property management company, and they are covered under the current exemption and they will not need to be licensed. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Any further discussion from the committee? Senator Allran. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess this is just sort of general. The only thing I really remember about this bill is when it was first introduced I got a letter from somebody in my district who said this was just a terrible bill. My question is now, do you feel like you've worked through all that and come up with a compromise that people support, or is there still opposition to it? I mean, is this kind of a consensus bill now? [SPEAKER CHANGES] No, Senator Allran, there were three groups who had concern. Neil Hunt brought to my attention one, we got that worked out. And the other was law enforcement, which the gentleman ??, he was also in agreement with that because that's an emergency situation. So we got that worked out. And the last one is the towers. And Senator Mclaurin has a ??, who he may want to address this, but I know of no objection now unless you have a problem with something. I don't know objection, I haven't heard anything, at least. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Senator McLaurin. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chairman, and sir, he's correct. The concern I had expressed to me was the institutional locksmith, those that are working in colleges. They would be covered under this and you address that with the bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yeah, actually the intent and my interest with this was because there are a lot of folks doing this type work who are fraudulent in the scams, and he can give you a lot of examples, but I didn't want to tie up your time here, but it's certainly a serious problem and this will resolve it. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, and further discussion from the committee? From the public? Any further discussion? If not, we will entertain a motion from Senator Tillman for favorable report. This is a PCS, correct? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes, sir. [SPEAKER CHANGES] OK, favorable to the PCS and favorable to the original, all in favor please say "aye". [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Opposed, "no". "Ayes" have it. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen of the senate. Yes sir, Solid Waste Management Reform. Senate Bill 328. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Senator Wade? Senator Tillman? [SPEAKER CHANGES] He's ready. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Are you ready? Well you come on if you're ready. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I was ready the day before yesterday. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Senate Bill 305. Has everybody got that? ??? contract changes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] And I do have a technical amendment. Mr Chairman, I believe we have copies available. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Does everyone have the amendment? [SPEAKER CHANGES] The amendment is in the packet. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Ok, Senator Tillman, would you explain the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] It is just an editing amendment, that's all it is. And I believe you have that in front of you, the wording is out of place, and this replaces it. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Do you have a motion? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Motion from Senator Walters for the amendment, all in favor please say "aye". [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye [SPEAKER CHANGES] Opposed? Amendment carries, Senator Tillman you may carry on with it. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chairman, I appreciate your help in scheduling this bill. As you know, recently we passed the tag and fax together program and that bill has been lauded as a wonderful thing, which would help collect taxes at the local tag agent's DMV offices. This comes into play right away, and those folks are having a huge workload on them. I have tag agents here today who can testify to that if you need, but the counties have been doing this and now counties won't have to do this. It'll be done at registration time. There was not adequate compensation to pay these folks. Now some of the commissioners had a little heartburn and they thought they'd be losing a few dollars on this until I explained to them that you will net an increase of 100 million dollars when we pass this bill. You're going to get 100% collection because if the man wants his registration to his car, he's going to pay his taxes. The problem is, you've got to stand there in line and explain to them, tag agencies...

to explain to them why your tax bill is different, why we're doing it this way, and why is it this amount, and ?? that takes time, and that is face to face, and you don't know how much time, but we have long lines. We already have stacks of paperwork there in the tag agent's offices. If you doubt my word, you check with these tag agents, folks. I've been there, I've seen them at work, and I've seen a great stack of work and the deposits that they have to make several times a day, and all the paperwork. To adequately compensate these tag agencies, we've put a bill together to take part of this money that would be in the commissioner's purview and pay these folks. Now if we didn't have this bill, the county commissioners of the counties would be collecting this tax and they would be hiring people to do it, or in this case, they would be able to make some reductions in their staff because the great load of this tax collecting will be off their backs. And so it'll be a win-win for the counties, and I believe the ones that I have talked to, once they realized they were going to net a whole lot more than they would ever cost them, said this is what we need to do. I ask for your support. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you sir, Sen. Rabin. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Move for favorable report on the PCS as amended, I've read the bill, it's a good bill, and I think it rewards the right kind of people for their work, thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Sen. Rabin. We have a motion for a favorable amendment, any questions? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chairman. Sen. Tillman, I walked by your office earlier today to ask a couple questions. If you'll allow me, I'll just ask a couple now. First of all, the North Carolina County Commissioners' Association, do they or do they not back this bill? [SPEAKER CHANGES] I don't know, I've not heard- they've not told me that they didn't back it. All the commissioners I've talked to when I explained what they would be netting vs. what it would cost them, support it. Initially, any time when you say we're gonna take 5 million away from you, they want to say no. I don't know what the association- [SPEAKER CHANGES] If I may sir, Mr. Chairman, [SPEAKER CHANGES] Now hold up. [SPEAKER CHANGES] They are not in support of this, and then I guess my question to you would be we're increasing it I guess, I've heard 48 cents, $1.06, going up to $1.27. My county has contacted me and told me that in the first 18 months of implementation of this bill, it cost them 104,000. I'm not trying to upset you Bill, I'm just trying to get answers to questions as we move forward. [SPEAKER CHANGES] You may lose $104,000 initially. What I want to know at the end of the year, what do you get back, Sen. Tucker? And that's the bottom line. And the bottom line, is they're coming out way ahead. $100 million extra will be collected if we pass this bill. If we don't the work still has to be done, these agents will not do the work, they cannot make a profit, they close the doors, guess who's going to collect it? That's why we're where we are. And we're trying to make some equity there, that's all we're trying to do. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Sen. Walters. [SPEAKER CHANGES] When- Excuse me. [SPEAKER CHANGES] You have one more follow up? [SPEAKER CHANGES] More follow up. The other question I have, do these tag agencies, Sen. Tillman, don't they have contracts that expire or is this just ongoing in infinity, or can they not renegotiate their rates so that they wouldn't be caught in this pickle of not being able to make enough money? [SPEAKER CHANGES] They have no power to do anything but recommend us the rates. Now we have 2 state agencies, Sen. Tucker, that you all might need to know that do this. And guess what they charge per transaction. We're asking for $1.27. Do you know what they have to do to make a profit? $4 per. If you do it on the internet with no contact, no questions, it's 48 cents. The same thing they'll be getting in this bill. This is a very small amount to pay these people to do this work, and it's fairness. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you. Sen. Walters? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chair, and Sen. Tillman, thank you for bringing this bill forward. A lot of places in rural communities, we really struggle to get our DMV offices, get these contract offices to survive because it's just on the revenue from the operate. But also, it helps to- the public, when they come to get their license tags, they don't have to drive another 20-25 miles to the courthouse to get a receipt that maybe they've already paid their license plate fee county taxes and it just didn't show up on one. So this'll benefit the- our customers, if you will, and also help as we move forward. And rural counties really have a hard time getting these contract agents to come and operate, because it's just not profitable. We're giving additional work to these folks, but we're also taking work from the counties, so they will- we're collecting the money for the counties, so I think it's a good bill. Thank you Sen. Tillman. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Sen. Walters. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Sen. Brown? [SPEAKER CHANGES] That

Representative: Mr. Chairman, first of all, the bill was passed in ’07, but now it is starting to take place that collects the property tax in counties, I am not sure that it ties into the bill Senator Tillman, but hat bill was a huge win for the counties: the counties were probably collecting 77% of the property tax on automobiles at that time, now they collect 100%. I think these agents sure deserve to make a little more for collecting these monies for the counties. I think it is a good bill. I think we should move favorably forward, if we have not already done it. Representative: Mr. Chairman, one comment. I want to thank all those agents that are out here that drove down here today. I have been in their offices and watched the paper load, and it is a good chance for you to have face to face contact with somebody that is handling your taxes. It is an extra burden and I thank you all for being here. Speaker: Thank you. Members I have got… Senator McKissick? I knew you weren’t going to get off without one…. Representative: [laughter] It’s simply a question Senator Tillman because I know so many of the counties, I heard from [xx] County, the manger over there, it is a small county, a rural county, that they are working on their budgets right now and establishing their tax rates that will extend into next year. The concern that I have heard is that if there is going to be change, I can see based upon the numbers you have presented here why some of the contractor agents may need a little bit more money, but they tell me, and what I have heard from a number of groups, is that they negotiate these rates over a five year period. This beginning rate, I think its 49 cents a transaction, is something everybody had bought into. Is there any possibility of trying to keep the rate lower during this year, the transitional period, and going to the higher rates after the transition? I think with people adopting their budgets right now, we were at the 19th of June, these counties have to have a budget in place by the 30th. For some of the smaller counties it could have a significant impact and I don’t know if they would be able to handle it. So, giving it some thought as to trying to help those counties out. Representative: Senator, no, not in the senate, is my answer to that, but I will tell you that since this is collected with registrations, you are going to pick up additional monies, getting to that 100 million immediately. So this short fall, if they got any balance at all, they are not going to be affected, especially in those smaller counties. Now I know they made their budget, Ralph Heist made a good point of that, but they have made their budget knowing that something had to be done because their work load is going down. I would suggest getting rid of 2 or 3 employees that collect the tax there, and save that money. They could do that. Speaker: Thank you sir. I know we have 2 people from the public that want to speak. First, we have Joanna Reese. Joanna, if you will step up please ma’am. Joanna: Thank you Mr. Chairman. I am Joanna Reese, with the association of county commissioners, and I spoke several times with Senator Tillman on this bill. He has made a number of changes due to our concerns, and a I appreciate that. The way the bill is written now, we have agreed to the $1.27 increase for the issuance of limited registration plate, and recognize that is an extra step; however, we have not agreed, nor opposed, to the increase from the .48 cents to the $1.06, and then the .71 cents. I would like to address the issue of the extra $100 million dollars. We never predicted that amount. We are looking at a possible $50-80 million, not extra revenue coming in, but this is debt owed to the counties when citizens have not paid their property taxes. So this is not a new tax or fee. Thank you very much for your time. Speaker: Thank you. Mr. Palmyer? Representative: Thank you. Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, I am Mr. Palmyer, with the NC legal municipalities. We too are concerned about this because city governments paid for the computer system upgrade that has been made to automate this, but we also will be paying for these fees for the municipal portion of property taxes that will be collected. Our concern really stems from the fact that the fee amounts being requested here, we are not sure what they are based on. We know that when the DMV fees were established, it was based on a number of people that will be hired, on a number of positions that would be filled, and their were requirements in the bill that the DMV hire people. This one does not require any additional hirings. We do not know what will happen and we are concerned about that. Thank you. Speaker: Thank you. Yes sir, Senator Tillman? Representative: Those representing the league and county commissioners, no one can ask your league, your county commissioners, if this $80 million

...if you may say or $100 million dollars, ask them if that's not new money. Yes, it's uncollected money but it's not money they've budgeted; so it's new money to them.Ask them if they'd rather have it the old way, Paul,or the way that this bill goes. I guarantee you, none of them want to go back to the old way. They're gonna come out ahead.You may get a little flack over it, but if they know what they're talking about and they study this thing, they're gonna come out ahead. Way ahead. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you. Members, if there's no further discussion, we have a motion by Senator Rabin for favorable report on the bill as amended. All in favor vote aye. All opposed vote no.The ayes have it. Thank you Senator Tillman. Senate Bill 328, Senator Wade, solid waste management. This is a PCS. We need a motion to hear the PCS by Senator Rucho. All in favor please say aye. Opposed? Motion carries. I believe there is an amendment.Senator Brown? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Chairman, there are two amendments. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Let's take them one at a time then. I think it's technical, Jennifer may want to touch on it. Thank you. Jennifer, would you please? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Senator Brown's amendment would make two technical changes to the PCS. The first one would be on page 13, line 50 through page 14 line 1. Basically it corrects a mistake in one of the effective dates. The second change would be on page 15, line 45 and it corrects just a drafting error where a term was struck out that shouldn't have been struck out. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Is the committee comfortable with that amendment being read? If so I hear a motion to approve the amendments - Senator Rucho. All in favor? Opposed? Amendment carried. Second amendment? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes Mr. Chairman, thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Do the members have copies of that, or will it be read also? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Jennifer is that going to be passed out? We do have copies Mr. Chairman, but it is very short. [SPEAKER CHANGES] If you'll read it, then if we have a problem we will go forward. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Senator Wade's amendment would make a change on page 11 line 31 of the PCS to rewrite that line to bring it back to the existing law, which says, "a wetland, unless the permit", so it takes it back to existing law and would remove the change made by the PCS. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Is the committee comfortable with that being read? If so we'll have a motion to accept the amendment please. By Senator Rabin. All in favor please say aye. Opposed? Amendment carried. The bill before us, Senator Wade. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chairman. First let's start with the reason we're doing this bill. My understanding - it depends on who you speak with: the industry or with ?? but we have a capacity left as far as space in landfills of about somewhere between 15 -20 years. We need to address this problem now, we don't need to wait until we're out of landfill space and then we haven't decided what we're going to do with the waste. I think there's a couple things we need to think about when we're talking about this bill. First, we have about 42 municipal solid waste landfills, and we have about 7 that are private. The other thing is we tend to not really treat our landfill friends as something they provide as infrastructure. Feeling that they really don't provide us a service; but they provide us a great service. They don't make the trash- we do. They provide us a place to put the trash. Part of our infrastructure.And what I would like to do from this point on - there's several changes in this bill and I'd like to have staff go through it to start with. But I do want to tell you that ?? has been involved and they do support this bill before we start. And Mr. Chairman, if it's OK if Jennifer could hit the highlights, I'd appreciate it. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Certainly, we'd appreciate that. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes, thank you Mr. Chairman and Senator Wade. Members, part 1 of the bill would extend the duration of permits for sanitary landfills and transfer stations to 30 years or up to 30 years for existing and new landfills. Those landfills are currently at 5 or 10 year duration right now.

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such ways, but explicitly provide that the term does not include liquid adhering to hires or vehicles leaving a sanitary landfill or transfer station on the next card I would allow cities and counties that operate landfills or are have executed franchise agreements with private operators from landfills within their jurisdictions to surcharge fees applicable to you waste disposed of by other local governments within North Carolina in their in the landfill within their jurisdiction. the final substantive provision is section eight. this would require a return of any reimbursements paid by a land paid to a landfill pursuant to legislation was enacted in two thousand seven there was a provision under Senate Bill six two thousand seven that allowed facilities that have pending permit applications that does applications would been denied based on the buffers that were enacted in two thousand seven that are certain costs for those facilities could be really reimbursed and this provision would require that those entities they did receive reimbursement repay eighty percent of the funds paid to them as reimbursement before obtaining a permit for a landfill on the property in question, and I'm happy to answer any questions, Mister Chairman and Joe Mister Change speaker: thank you for swimming. I guess it, then, at the request of a I want you as Bill managed to provide future disposable waste United States. we need to do that. however, I represent the several counties to which the name will have some large problems with this bill, and I would like the opportunity and I request the opportunity to work with you and your staff specifically can come to some agreement that will make their concerns to play. Change speaker: I love to work with you said that I love the work. he said that the other thing I will say is that certainly every local government will have a franchise agreement with whatever company designs for the Lancia Lammers and I will have to agree to the franchise agreement and everything is put in another local governments. so there is a safeguard in place. therefore, the United States site is also went to add him past that committee and user driven millions like you would like to Change speaker: thank Judy for the bill. you know we have some disagreement on it. she's the most accommodating. I did sign a an amendment is another deals with giving more Change speaker: members than ever. the path is an attack to go fastest to be ready in Change speaker: my understanding love to product testing is out, Change speaker: I'll analysis of the heat of the room does not work out. we got we got a note to that effect. thirty minutes after your death will and in and this is just a man that having problems with it in this web is the amendment does folks lose it. I thought it would be nice to consider people, Change speaker: as well as Senator Wright, Leslie, everyone is this the moment will be right with you, Jim and Joan… wow Change speaker: I know that the surge away fumes if you'd like the world may own the on this issue to our concerned about the leak resistant versus leakproof, could you or me on that something SF that will say that the problem with that. and if you don't, Change speaker: I was actually whether the trucks are going into the transfer station and they were adapting their Holland. the transfer station and back, and now there might be some rain water that was on there some precipitation and when they went out to the right, they were being pulled over and find out the Highway Patrol formal writing launderer on their tires certainly would make a contraction if people allow rainwater in a good legality development tires. that's a thousand thanks. and when it was

Time to Alpha mu M: lifetime , and then the two of the deals with my concern for people who have purchased Russian and two condemn the property values affected: the whole hand them all the more buffer zone below the commission for a day in the comedy than that for too long lead time the corporate table in the channel from the two of the time of the first time a thing about a gift from the stand, and they'll understand about a bubble A M, and, with an informant in two separate that the fear time that happened on the sidewalk boldly and some good time to 59 pm oil and back again and again that it would be increased to 15 and under the Dole B. Buford two dwelling, wait a minute to five tie me, D and create under a latent demand and a company that would have paid them at least half the time, they planned to nine ranging from: the fund company said first, and put them back into the pentagon and the best they could buy it, but I'm in the Philadelphia two to 34 quick question that mortgage that the time in definition of what we can give them a value of the question that the two of the avatar non-whites and if you can actually at that level again and 15 least a good defined under the bell the bill would define weekend, leave them that the finish time and five lead that, under Federal law, and by bad weather data for non hand, if you cannot look into that, the Montana Dept, but I'm pretty sure that they do a lot has happened to that question that would have been done and would estimate that the time of the two-Mac even director of the Waste Management department(SPEAKER CHANGES) I'm actually forces under the tentative non-regulated-fourths at the ballot: concentrated by the land deal to make sure that what goes: two, brown market trading in life, allowed to go back and two of the National University and embarrassed that we tried of Leon national and told them if they're lying and for the week they collected by the straightaway for two when we do still have some unlined cannot construction and demolition debris landfills time lovers, from the unit for the landfill's party of property boundary with them on welfare, five detection of blood contamination required for me it helped him that if the calm of hard work and a bad link aid is collected and a smartcard corporation if you take a look at this legislation this legislation a week and colleagues: for the handle, and pagers, if the plant can hear them in the foot of the contenders one day, and call them and technical, legal, not the quickest day that time comes, those detained over Tom Lange wear and tear into a lack of buying and they were helping them to the Lakewood, garbage-collect accommodate them, and time and that's the only the latest of America and the less the bill Locker to take a look of the legislation of language and lip and could you imagine what that economic and budget for the time that if the computed, 1982 and a: P seven P the second time E-242111 P a limitation on lake, financial edge full collection E go with the provisional and P AG Donlan time lamb and happened to two different time ??..............

...the limitation end under the current, under this provision and the subsequent provision on the earlier provision that a city can charge more for collection than you're talking about in the first section that I read. Am I missing something? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. ?? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Just to be clear, Senator Blue, you are asking about Section 7C and that language as compared to the language in 7D? [SPEAKER CHANGES] It's the language in Section 7D compared to the language in Section 7C, yes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Senator Blue, it's my understanding that 7D just simply allows the cities or counties who are collecting a surcharge on the waste that's disposed of in their jurisdiction, once those funds have entered their public enterprise fund and sufficient funds have been expended to maintain the landfill within their jurisdiction, then they can use that excess for other purposes. That's my understanding of what 7D does. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Then does 7C put a limit on how much the city can charge, because it says you can only charge the amount necessary to operate the facility? [SPEAKER CHANGES] It does say that the fee may exceed those costs if the city enters into a contract with another city or county and by ordinance they levee a surcharge, so it does say it can exceed that amount if. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Question then to the sponsor? Why do we, if the city does not accept garbage from anybody else, why do we restrict how much they can charge the citizens for operating their landfill? [SPEAKER CHANGES] I think, Senator Blue, that came out of the other bill that we were currently using and that was the language. It's my understanding we just transferred that over from the previous bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] OK. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The previous law. [SPEAKER CHANGES] One follow up. [SPEAKER CHANGES] One last question. Also I notice that on page 18, starting line 18, Section 7E gives a local government the ability to put a surcharge on garbage or waste collected from other local governments within the State. Is there any restriction on what they can do about waste collected from local governments or any other entity outside the State? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes, sir. Senator Blue, I'll let Jennifer answer that, but we had a large discussion on that. [SPEAKER CHANGES] OK. Staff, can you answer that? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Then we're going to talk trash for two more questions. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Chairman, Senator Blue, no. It just speaks to local governments inside the State. [SPEAKER CHANGES] OK. Senator ??. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Just ??. So there is no restriction on waste coming from other places into these, according to this bill? [SPEAKER CHANGES] In the bill in its entirety? Are there any restrictions on out of State waste? [SPEAKER CHANGES] I understand some commerce clause issues and stuff, but is there any... [SPEAKER CHANGES] Not to my knowledge. No. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Senator Blue. Senator Woodard? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think my questions may actually better be directed to Mr. Matthews from the solid waste division. If I could ask a couple questions of him? You said ?? Senator Wade stated the capacity for our landfills now you've got 15 to 20 years, is that the department's estimate of what our current landfill capacity is? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Our estimates a little higher than that. It's closer to 30 years, but every landfill in the State has a particular service area, so it's really difficult to put a total number of years of capacities State-wide because you may have one landfill that's covering only one county that may have a great deal of capacity. But that capacity's not available State-wide. So when we look at he capacity, the only we could calculate it really was to look at total capacity across the State. We really didn't try to break it out in the way of the service areas that existed, so you may have...

We have much more of a capacity issue than other areas. Thank you, thank you sir. For municipal solid waste which we have more data on that than for construction and demolition waste, we’ve increased capacity by about 30% we have not permitted any new land fills, any new C and D or municipal solid waste landfills in that period of time, but in an effect of the legislation that was passed in 2007, existing landfills were exempt from a number of requirements that new landfills would have to comply with so the effect really was to have a lot of the existing landfills to ask for permits to increase capacity. [SPEAKER CHANGES] thank you [SPEAKER CHANGES] Senator McKissick last question [SPEAKER CHANGES] sure and since I had a series of questions what I’ll do is get with senator Wade later to discuss them but I am deeply concerned about this legislation because its compromising some very serious environmental standards that we’ve had for quite some time and the potential for us to open up our rural counties in this state as a dumping ground for states up in the northeast gives me great concern. The things specifically concern me the length of permits being extended, the height of the landfills being extended, particularly for those properties that are adjoining or near it, buffers being decreased, potential to put landfills near what might be called wetlands, there’s a whole host of things that give me deep concerns. I hope that this bill moves forward that we’ll really seriously thing about what we need to do to protect our environment, not just for today but for the next generation because we don’t want to put ourselves in a position that we become an attractive dumping ground and it’s not a price I’m willing to pay but I hope we can somehow craft this in a way that a lot of the things this bill is attempting to do can be addressed in a more meaningful and effective ways without leading to a deterioration of environmental restrictions dealing with landfills. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Jennifer would you like to address that please [SPEAKER CHANGES] Well Senator Wade may be addressing this while not changed in the PCS as they are as they are under existing laws [SPEAKER CHANGES] OK so that was removed in the PCS that was before us today? Thanks encouraging. We’ll keep working on it. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you. We have two members in the audience that would like to speak, Brian Plumly City of Chesapeake Virginia. Brian are you any kin to the famous, infamous sgt major Plumly? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Well since I’m a graduate of the university of carolina law school I don’t make that claim to be related to that crew, but I think distantly yes sir, but I did get the height gene. It is an honor to be here, I”m Brian Plumly representative for the city of chesapeake Virginia. We’re an immediate neighbor of the proposed mega landfill in camden county north carolina our neighbor. If this bill is passed into law then the landfill will move forward. For chesapeake the landfill is a drinking water red code, it is a major problem for our drinking water water shed. For northeast north carolina the landfill will be a job prevention act for camden county. This is designed this landfill is designed for out of state garbage. The camden county landfill will be near a brand new 400 million dollar high rise bridge that the state of virginia is constructing right now. It’s going to be at the entrance of camden county’s brand new commerce park which is attracting attention from several businesses and in fact a 500 firm engineering firm is looking at moving there right now, we’re talking about jobs 70,000 dollars a year going into this area, instead we’re going to end up with 20 jobs at 10 dollars an hour running a landfill. So we’re asking this body to reexamine this and study this legislation carefully, there was a long study before in the previous law. We should ask and hold everyone to have a long conversation so everyone has a chance to participate. I really do appreciate your time today I know that everyone has worked hard but I do ask, that we be given the opportunity for full public debate. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you sir. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Brooks, Pearson, welcome. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Is it on? My name is Brooks Rainy Pearson and I’m with the Southern Envrionmental Law Center.

The fish and up and down the page me to come back, I'm the length of time operation and leisure, up and Michael and can not only until the ninth and let me for my money and the ability to deliver the deterrent factor may come and help them come together and financial and typing and a late-round by the time, and looking again, while income community event happened at night and I don't have a frame EL 59, a blank that that could happen, and plant of the time to uphold every time and money left hand, a table and negotiate that help define that can hang the hell and L that the July 8 at DFA and grab the data and all the time had come, and each time high and that catch, Colin Torrente industry today, the timing and luck in your cap and a mail to dispatch and dale and 52 am I a handful of Michael and a little bit taken after the product and A ME delta, but we'll have been especially hard and play, this time that you have an attack by the Kennedy family to -one, economic development and time and not the life and Michael and we had to complete the time to time making their way to live, and the FA alibi mandates that carried left you would like to make one left,(SPEAKER CHANGES) and from 8 to 11 AM Eastern and Asian-Pacific economic plan that we had a lot of the week are today. Actually not true of make the department with a lot had led the Tory party have had not been diminished whatsoever in this deal, we appreciate the time to wade through connections to the plan worked with that's a month, feces to make sure that all our concerns have been the greatest leap building Stanley cup liquid ability and we can only support if the lives of many times have a committee of nearly a month ago-I had no reason to doubt that we would not be a bleach and fans going out with actually fly in challenge to vote for me what if they didn't actually would be timed in 50 people a medley of body, which have been made are concerned about the fate of public and 90% of those times have been a great soul of a public hearing today if it actually was only a few in the environment, the damaged by this and much needed reform the department of support and what they considered a working with Mike Sherrard time and had the effect that members, and young , among them, FM and available to all along that route and that the no , had moved to a company that time ?? …….