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House | March 19, 2013 | Committee Room | Finance

Full MP3 Audio File

Ralas from Nash County sponsored by Representative Collins and Edgar Starnes glad to have you with us. Montgomery County Representative Burr. And our sergeant in arms today, now do I say Mr Fred Hines or Sergeant Fred Hines? Just Fred Hines, ok. Fred Hines, Reggie Seals, John Brandon and Mike Clampett. Glad to have you with us today. Our first bill on the calendar today with be House Bill 257 Unclaimed Property Improvement Programs. Representative Hurley. [Speaker Changes] Thank you Mr. Chair. Hello Committee. This bill this morning is sort of a follow up for the bill that I did last session and it gives the treasurers department a little bit more leeway in trying to find owners of unclaimed property. And for those of you who don’t know much about the Escheats division it is part of the treasurers department and it is money owned by your constituents that has been lost or they didn’t realize they were due or it could be a dormant checking account that has been sent to the Escheats division. [Speaker Changes] A question Representative Warren? [Speaker Changes] Not at this time sir [Speaker Changes] And this bill is to, the goal is to make various technical changes that need to be done to bring the Unclaimed Property statues into alignment with legislation passed in the 2011 session. The bill will also reduce the amount of paperwork that private secure unclaimed property holders are required to submit and eliminate a fee that is current paid by some of these holders, which is costing more than it is making to do this. In section 1 the bill amends the statue to accommodate changes made with the passage of House Bill 692 during the 2011 session. It gives the department of state treasurer access to a variety of personal information about the owners of unclaimed property such as driver’s license numbers that may not be fully protected by the state privacy and the want this to not be able to be sent out to the general public. Something like your social security number and things like that. The name and address of the person can be sent out. You know if we needed it and some of you use the Escheats division to let your constituents know that they have money there, like at NC cash and you go there you can find these people’s names. And in section 2 of the bill amends the statue to accommodate the changes made by the passage of House Bill 692. This bill requires only financial institutions that hold property physically located in a safe deposit box or other safe keeping depository to report such property. Hospitals and other entities holding intangible property are no longer required to report such property. The intent of the bill was to eliminate the need for hospitals and other entities to report miscellaneous personal properties such as clothing, umbrellas, costume jewelry, etc. which often have low value and would cost more to receive, maintain or sell than the actual proceeds. The change in the language did not take into account any actual cash property so this is to cover that. And cash will be escheated to the treasurer’s office. And the other thing would be that section 3 that clarifies the means by which holders reporting unclaimed property may certify and verify their records and it eliminates the fees for unclaimed property holders who request an extension of time to file their holder reports. North Carolina is the only known state to charge holders a fee for the extension request and they only collected 1800 dollars last time and so they think this change would be beneficial. So I ask your support and this and if there is any questions I’ll ask Jeff to help us. [Speaker Changes] Before we take any questions I have a request that the commissioner deputy treasurer of unclaimed properties, Brenda Williams, would like to say a few words on this bill. [Speaker Changes] Good morning and thank you. I just wanted to introduce myself as the new deputy treasurer for unclaimed property, again I am Brenda Williams. Some of you may have worked with me already as a financial literacy director for the department for the past two years. So, again, I just wanted to introduce myself and let you know that I am looking forward to working with you and helping your constituents get their unclaimed property back. So thank you for hearing the bill this morning. [Speaker Changes] Thank you for joining us. Representative Ross was first I believe. [Speaker Changes] Well thank you Mr. Chairman and at the appropriate time I wanted to make motion for a favorable report. [Speaker Changes] Representative Warren?

Enough said that he could go from 4% of those sure that the new storm for questions (SPEAKER CHANGES) and U.S. and other income figure out what the changes and at the at me and the maze that that title of the public and memory nine net of all pages 914-15 & 16 their own, own the first page and(SPEAKER CHANGES) a numbering in the bill summary a set of that than it's the disclosure of information name and last known address of the property and home I just can't figure out a home is as saying if you had two addresses your legal and released the last known address that is, that that the person you gave us that spacey did it take to transfer the Names and other entrances that that's the thing to do anything that would be out there would be better if he's given from the people whose DNA from incorrect place to second and that is correct but if the banks into MSN address list with 23 parts to reach the ms the aggression against U.N. Law about where the train journey actually L have contacted the ninth, 1994 1,000,000 questions presented role should recognize from ocean (SPEAKER CHANGES) thank you Mr. Chairman of the at that we gave SL 257 a favorable report the motion is only a test of 257 FM report any further discussion at the debate nine that the number 79 of those opposed no, said they considered me thinking that camera from the consumer can filter that , we'll take a 5¢ bill 84 we like the senate would like to get them out for a thank you very much(SPEAKER CHANGES) to share with your courtesy and mourners a committee, if you take your car truck into that the player than the other shop as a Lien on the vehicle and they can keep possession of a divided back if you pay bills, if you think that none were crying at the four youths speaking now bill why you go to court to fight about it but in the meantime you get a car battery truck backed by a pain in the court record the amount of skewed bill so the car and truck stop this city are also goes all the interesting enough to do that would have one and nine despite what to expect this actually happened so awful lot, there is no provision four, bonding back out the aircraft while you fight about moving repair work was done right with you now the bill is a severe crack and so on the ground, Unused for the law's lawsuit takes so what the bill would do is provide a mechanism like we have a party frocks where difference being that goes four that while courts taking its own good, and resolve the dispute Miller can get possession the plane back by posting bond, with a clerk report to cover all of the leisure care bills false in the interest return the season by the war to repair shop this with bill does is chairman of the glad to answer the questions commuters win again, the question that the appropriate confirmation take a look questions that require from ocean thank you Mr. Chairman (SPEAKER CHANGES) I'd like to four favorable report for seven Delaney four with a motion 74314 percent 1,000,000,004 any further discussion if a malicious a related on the same out that the pose no threat to that of the four million Federal report as chairman of the space of fraud by Paris' house as social event like this is a seven as a cure for enough to say we like our senators and this was from (SPEAKER CHANGES) M. Andrew P. Barney will be handled before the house and 50 15th if OK and those same two vote and differences said we will now recognize senator those 247 the money so ………

Mr Chairman I bring before you this morning Senate Bill I believe it's 97, it's very near and dear to Representative Davis and myself. It allows the City of Wilmington to not tax the people in the area that was deannexed. It deals with annexations for less than 6 months. No tax bill has been sent out by our city and our mayor and city council called us and said could you please help us out, we do not wish to cause any further ire to be raised on the part of those deannexed people who didn't want to be annexed into the city to begin with and we would like to not send them out a tax bill. We'd appreciate your support of the bill. I'd be happy to answer any questions, Mr. Chairman. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Brawley. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I just wanted to make a motion. This one's obvious. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Starnes for a question. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes. We have a number of deannexation bills that come through every session and they're always site specific for certain towns, you know, and they want to take an area out maybe as annexed improperly, but is this saying that this long we give relief to areas that have been deannexed within 6 months. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes, sir. [SPEAKER CHANGES] So in other words if you're down the road and the town says well, we did this and we want to deannex it, those people still have to pay their tax. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes, sir. And again, we've already dealt with that issue, this is simply dealing with the bill that we dealt with last year where we stopped forced annexation. We had an area in Wilmington that had been annexed for less than 6 months. No tax bill had been sent out. There are other areas that have already actually taxed, those taxes had been paid. We're not dealing with that and causing any problems for anybody. This bill was drawn up to deal with our specific situation in New Hanover County. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Davis. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Chair, and if I could comment. This is, as Senator Goolsby said, this is something that was specifically requested by the city. They do not really want to issue tax bills for the time that the people in ?? junction were annexed but they have to by law, so what this statute will do is enable the city of Wilmington to do that. And also as Senator Goolsby has said, the city has talked with me and I assured them that if it passed this committee and went to the floor that I would support it there and I ask you also to do that. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Brawley is recognized for a motion. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Chair, move for a favorable report on Senate Bill 97, Finance Committee substitute. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Chairman. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Luebke. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I apologize for being late but was it stated that the city of Wilmington supports this. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] They asked for it. [SPEAKER CHANGES] We have a motion, Representative Brawley has made a motion to give Senate Bill 97 a favorable report. Any further discussion. If there is no discussion, all those in favor let it be known by saying aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] All opposed no. The ayes have it, Senate Bill 97 will be given a favorable report and it's my understanding Representative Davis will be handling it on the floor. [SPEAKER CHANGES] It will be my pleasure Mr. Chairman. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you. House Bill 174, Representative Howard. [SPEAKER CHANGES] ?? (background noise) [SPEAKER CHANGES] While they're handing out those copies, we have House Bill 193, expand the uses for Mecklenberg Charlotte local taxes as in our committee and it will be assigned to the subcommittee on occupancy taxes. That subcommittee is chaired by Representative Moffit. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Chairman. I'm sorry, can you remind me the other members on that subcommittee. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Moffit, Carney, Cotham, Davis and Warren. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] ?? (background noise) Does everyone have a copy of the proposed committee substitute? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Chair.

I move that we have the PCS before us for the purpose of discussion. [SPEAKER CHANGES] And Representative Howard is recognized to comment on House Bill 174 Proposed Committee Substitute. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We’ve had really good cooperation with the railroad and with all of the parties that are concerned with this bill. In 2011 session law, there was a requirement that the program evaluation division do a review of the corporation’s mission, the economic development benefits, the tangible and intangible value, and the governance. The law required the program evaluate whether the North Carolina Railroad should be sold, transferred to the North Carolina Department of Transportation, or transferred to another agency, or should its private corporation maintain that private corporation structure. Since the state of North Carolina became North Carolina Railroad’s sole shareholder, and many of you were here in 1998 when those shares were purchase, the final shares by the state, the corporation has been very profitable and solvent. However, the state of North Carolina has not received any direct financial benefit from owning the North Carolina Railroad. The joint program evaluation division completed their study and had direct input, again, from the railroad. Then the oversight joint program evaluation oversight committee, met, reviewed the recommendations, reviewed the study and made...accepted the recommendations by program evaluation division and that’s where this bill stems from. I will tell you briefly what it will do. A. It allows the governor to cross a point, one board member each from the board of transportation and from the economic development board. It expands annual reporting and disclosure requirements for the North Carolina Railroad to include a host of things that I will go through those things with you. A, a strategic plan and capital plan and whether objectives have been met. 2, anticipated dividends for the next three fiscal years. 3, description of the North Carolina Railroad business. They’re in the marketing of what’s going on with the railroad. A list of the properties that the North Carolina Railroad owns. Description of the code of ethics and possible conflict of interest. A list of the directors and the officers and their experience. A list of the compensation of paid directors and officers. The nature of disagreements with its accountants. If the the North Carolina Railroad changes accountants. Any transactions that are between the North Carolina Railroad, the directors, officers, and family members. Those are requirements that are now in this bill. Effective June 30 of ‘13, when the PCS places the one time $15.5 million dividend, and the future one time net proceeds of properties that are being transferred to the state budget and renovation reserve fund. In the annual cash dividend of $3.7 million, which is equal to 25% of the trackage rights agreement with Norfolk and Southern is due January 15 of 2014. That’s essentially what the bill does and I’ll stand to answer any questions, Mr. Chairman. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Ross. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Actually, if there are representatives of the North Carolina Railroad.

I have a couple of questions for them if that's appropriate. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Is the representative of the railroads here? Scott Saylor? Are you available to answer questions? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes, sir. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you very much Mr. Chairman. I have about three questions if that's okay. Thank you for being here. My first question to you is: What position does the North Carolina Railroad have on this bill? [SPEAKER CHANGES] In January, Representative Ross, the board of directors adopted a resolution asking for really four provisions to get looked at. Three of those four issues have been resolved in the PCS. The fourth item is that the board had asked, of course this is up to the general assembly, you all, as the shareholder, that the dividends if they're diverted be used only for transportation or economic development related purposes. So that was the four provisos. [SPEAKER CHANGES] So, may I keep...So, Mr. Saylor, your only objection to the PCS now is the use of the proceeds. Is that correct? [SPEAKER CHANGES] It's not an objection. Just a statement from the board on our position. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My question to you is: if you didn't give this money over to the General Assembly, and now I see in the PCS it's going to the repair and renovation fund for state buildings. If you didn't give the money to the General Assembly, what would the North Carolina Railroad do with the 15.5 million dollars in one-time contributions and with the other funds that would be transferred? Would you be re-investing that in the railroad or what would you do with it? [SPEAKER CHANGES] We would. They would be re-investing for economic development and improvements in the transportation, the rail assets of the railroad. It would not stop, but it would delay some of those projects, depending on contributions of other partners for those projects. Things, for example, re-locating tracks or adding tracks where double tracks are needed today, where it may be singles tracked. Or replacing bridges. But we would still have 75% of the resources to apply to those projects going forward under the bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] One more follow up question, thank you Mr. Chairman. So, you said that those projects would be delayed. Could you, is there anyway that you could quantify the economic impact of those projects. Because, we know that North Carolina relies a lot on freight rail. There are plans for high-speed passenger rail. And so, what would be the effect of those things being delayed? [SPEAKER CHANGES] There are three primary projects that may be delayed. Those would be the double tracking the three miles of the North Carolina Railroad between downtown Raleigh at Boline Junction or where you know where the Amtrak station is. It's single track and there are five bridges on the railroad between there and the belt line. That's going to be about a 57 million dollar project ultimately. Another project that may be delayed is relocating some storage tracks and yard properties in downtown Newbourne. A lot of the railroad is downtown in sort of a legacy property there that should be relocated eventually. And the third project that would be most significantly affected would be double tracking the railroad that is currently single tracked between downtown Carry and Morrisville to dovetail with the DOT project which will double track the line from Morrisville to RTP. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Chairman, just for a statement. Thank you very much Mr. Chairman. I just think that taking this money out of an organization that has managed it's funds effectively, contributed to economic development, contributed to freight rail which is something our businesses count on, and is working on improving passenger rail in one of the highest population areas of the state is pennywise and pound foolish. And why are we going and dipping into an organization that is providing crucial infrastructure for this state at a time when we have basically ceased investment in infrastructure? It makes absolutely no sense and I'm ...

adamantly opposed to this ??. [SPEAKER CHANGES] President ?? is recognized. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Let me ask the gentleman from the railroad a couple of questions. You're talking about these improvements that you're wanting to make. What's the dollar cost of these improvements? [SPEAKER CHANGES] The double track between downtown Raleigh and the belt lines is about a 57 million dollar project. We currently have 10 million dollars budgeted for that project. The double track between ?? and Morrisville is estimated at about 60 million dollars, we currently have 10 million dollars set aside for that project. And the relocation of the ?? yard would be in the order of about 18 to 20 million dollars. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Another question, then. All right, so you're setting aside money for these projects, so then what is the timeline? When do you anticipate that they'll be completed? [SPEAKER CHANGES] The timeline for these would push out to around 2018 to 2020, depending on the contributions of other partners to those projects, so they are funded at about only one-third currently. What we will do is once this legislation passes, depending on the final result, is we'll need to go back and re-prioritize those and take a look at each one and decide how they ought to be prioritized. We're also waiting on statements from the Governor's office about rail policy and the philosophy there, because DOT is a strong partner of ours, and a lot of these projects. [SPEAKER CHANGES] So can you say, for certain, then, how long these projects will be delayed if this 25 percent is taken away? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Three to five years is what I would estimate. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Just a comment, Mr. Chairman. These are long-term planning projects that they've got on the books, but I think it's a good deal that we've got. I mean we own the railroad, and the state is entitled to get some sort of return on its investment, and what we're asking for is not unreasonable and I support the bill. I think that the rail projects will be completed and they'll be completed in a timely manner. They may not be done as quickly as they wanted to, but they'll get done. [SPEAKER CHANGES] President ??. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Ah yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. ?? representative could you tell us what the original investment was in 1998? I think I heard it, I want to doublecheck. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Stone, I believe Mr. Turkot with the ?? division can give us those numbers. that was when we invested in the final piece of the stock, it was a substantial amount of money. Mr. Chairman, if you would recognize John Turkot? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Turkot? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chairman, members of the committee. As we understand it, the transaction, the total value of the transaction was 71 million dollars. It involved a complicated credit swap, but the bottom line was that the ?? revenue paid 71 million dollars into the railroad to buy out the 25 percent of shares that had been previously owned by private stockholders. [SPEAKER CHANGES] President Stone, a follow-up? [SPEAKER CHANGES] I just want to complete, finish his statement. I think this is a good deal, we're moving forward here. But what I would really encourage is I'd encourage the railroad to look at a way to buy out North Carolina, and then run the railroad privately, and then invest their own money. This is the process when you get involved with state money. This is the kind of things that come around, and we ought to protect the stakeholders interest, the taxpayer, and we have 71 million dollars invested, and I think it's time we get a dividend on the taxpayers' money. But I would strongly encourage them to eventually look at a way to take back the railroads, run it privately like the rest of the businesses and corporations in North Carolina do. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Hager? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. A quick to ??. President Howard, the dividend that comes back from the railroad, what will that money be used for? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Right now the money is being directed to the repair and renovation fund. We sort of struggled with that, but we felt that as Representative Stone said, the people of North Carolina have quite an investment in the North Carolina Railroad, which we're very proud of. We have never asked previously for

Any dividends any general fern to begin from noon till the scale from leaf Law with building to state of the Jeffrey A are many many of them are NBC some of the 95 animation 54 future needs least be changed by other there are 9:00 AM to general assembly and at any given time around said that's where the money given (SPEAKER CHANGES) would come in all Mr. the 2000 like this the ultimate from the road commission a question of an annual convention many of the talk about a three to have a new alternative plan to build a 57,000,000¢ credit , (SPEAKER CHANGES) 57 months ago from project for about three and a miles from downtown rollicking wallet on what was a ridership a lesson that the pursuit of opening people ride the train they are geared at 68 freight trains through their day in their eight passenger trains through the air today as far as ridership and passionate rains, five to referring to considered on active duty sponsor says passenger trains they can come in the shared section division as they wish and again (SPEAKER CHANGES) I think that what version are shown below the community and we have buildings and we have infrastructure that need attention and we have issues with a fake which are sort of firewall building some attrition built in the spare revisions of thing that's an arsonist legal issues is this a great need right now we're gonna try to keep proper infrastructure intern keep people safe in these buildings and red ochre, build and staff from indoor track 75 members of the thing that can take you for bringing this is a gray revenue source and appreciate you and no 142 of the gold four -Russian defense thank you, Mr. Chairman, (SPEAKER CHANGES) am I gonna say about their medication and to the folks who haven't been here is that, lacking a big fan of supporting repair and renovation and come over the years that we had this would be a drop in the pocket for the repair and renovation needs that we have 50 states want our money back to April 2 sell much the economic development and then you heard from Mr. Saylor said for freight shipping I need right now that the price of gas that people are using freight to move their products this is something that is very very important for in business since the other thing about for passenger rail is Carolina of five states where to use a passenger rail car has been increasing the most in the entire country that's that's just basically sank back to their state forward that is not in this day forward the drop in the pocket and to make openly and I think that that's a very sad statement particularly in the economic situation that sustained a simmering from (SPEAKER CHANGES) Mr. Turk grief over are at the conclusion of this report and YA railroad good at the completion of the standings is turned into a utility that independent and not a good (SPEAKER CHANGES) Mr. Cole and as chairman and members of the committee home lead as the railroad corporation back in 2012 and as of October 2012 two give us new listing of all at the planned capital projects on they furnish ghostly list the total list of some 440037.2000000 projects that they had planned on the North Carolina where road course will depend upon partners but, the two projects in Mali one homes are only the second muddy track in the arm and the double track Marshall took your projects are included in those projections that can weaken the titles and consideration of the summary of Irvine Valley is referring to, this a statement that was in a written response from around corporation saying that they could make them from this dividend will out from impacting their…

Plan just for you and those two projects were included in the now seriously and if it things have changed your conditions have changed the course that's important for the committee affect understand what his followers the PD reporters concern will redo the projections the cash flow projections and forecasts for list of basically we took in consideration what those plans for the time this came in at 4 o'clock yesterday afternoon I personally had a conversation with the thoughts with you North Carolina rewriting answer questions have your plans changed there anything different in this mail that you need to change and even into reliving any of the property that had been dating surplus value on I was not given an answer that things work had changed on blinker gentleman from the rarefied is stands to address this question must direct response to a questionnaire to clarify this juncture can't is correct to the PD staff took into account our long-term plans are projects to require partners to help with the funding for those and we can support the legislation it will require some adjustment to capital program with the John's correct the staff took that into account we will have resources to move as many projects Florida's we can and I got one major verify that represented whole represented thank you Mr. chairman and just to state briefly and may have a question for Mr. silent on this is I am a entire evaluation and shared with chairman that atenolol heartburn either the scale and she's not at times fast having chair transportation for a couple of years on the policy found in this is just a hard one for me I had when I came here's the Flashman one of the big issues out there was that there the cabin at that time had gone was take many from lines entire money and put it into the general findings I have my indoctrination as a freshman at here 10 years ago on that that variations I have maintained in and submitted the Senate committee and there were several others that have had that this money would day I given today transportation and said that is investing reinvesting in the stay may investment of the stagnate years back and and and I still believe that's where the money that we have huge infrastructure needs in the state and I think we all know that from wades to teleports to mail to transit and there is no secret that doesn't last for Mecklenburg are very committed and went County and in the other parts of the state now to transit and even people from place to place in a more ex-expedited way and we're running out of friends that dart to Belgrade sound where are getting more and more congested and I do have one question for Mr. silent and that is an is just confident, and usually I get this information beforehand that Westside for instance the airport in Charlotte all the money that comes from that airport at self-sustaining is federal money and savings and that the federal money comes with a time to let that it has to be spent on the airport and airport operations and projects how does the federal many found for the valorize operate as far as extending so we will receive any federal appropriations the federal investment it typically becomes your partner transportation you're finding the and you get that none from the program is correct That was a disappointed glance at the fermata I understand your children your research about English be can ask questions and have a problem with resolutions to repeatedly

I'm glad everything cannot and will is that mantis and it's just I just wanted to thank Is nonpublic else on anyway just wanted to emphasize and I will say this there as well within the initiative on this started out in it has come a long way and I do commend the chair and the and the division for the work that can on this and the Ballarat it started out and I think about never that women stelae well acted and this is why has been salvaged and that another think it says about good news: I just still have met Jackson about the money not going to transportation representatives and that is chairman I think that it's a good thing the we are pursuing alluvion if it's it has set the state owns the asset that I do also think that there is a deep philosophical difference the repair fund as I recall it barely discussion about the number oh renovations and repairs that we had been deferring for low key with talking diligence so that the amount of money it's going to come from this Vivian and the lady that would come in the future is a proverbial drop in the bucket on the other hand we have a number oh admit transportation needs and clearly out regardless of what has been said about stretching out projects in this spring this money into transportation will give us more bang for the transportation will and I think that is not something likely to be dismissed the are number of things that we are pursuing will group slowing tries to build high-speed rail the railroad commission or company owned right-of-way is is that can be valuable redeveloped going forward as the economic development a decent this dear partnerships they are all 40 and I think it's important that we don't*the investment aspects him back into transportation him him in the Charlotte area we have learned their the property along the rail corridor as valuable and Nick inappropriate economic conditions and with appropriate partners you can develop medium and high density projects that are a bit benefit to local communities in terms of increasing the tax base circular choice I think it is much more important for us to interest this view million dollars in that direction as opposed to trying to to give you a veritable bucket of water in Florida on the raging fire over admit renovation and repair needs and because of their I found it difficult to vote for this bill in committee and would hope that in the legislative process that we can come to modifying the year the development use of these funds to an and you really think about where we going with this beckons chair I cannot handle it like this German hit cannot connect to begin with a question about the fiscal note on Wednesday I guess the staff of the preparers of the fiscal note I guess in trying to I'm

Trying to understand the up to 3.68 million , what does that mean there, in which year approximately that between 3 and 4 million dollars, what does that mean and How is that related to 15.5 million that we have been discussing. [Speaker Changes] [inaudible] is recognized [Speaker Changes] Mr Chair [inaudible] of the fiscal research division. If you see with fiscal year 2013-14 there is an annotation there which indicates that the 15 and half million in the lump sum cash dividend is to be credited to the state no later than the fiscal year end in the current fiscal year. And we would treat that as as an unappropriated balance on future appropriation by the general assembly should that not be appropriated we assume it would be allocated according to the current provision which would require half of the balance to go to state agency projects and for the remainder to go to UNC system projects. In the out years, you see that 25% of the [inaudible] income assumption at 3.7 million roughly increasing my 2% based on an adjustment factor included in the [inaudible] is assumed. [Speaker Changes] Follow up [Speaker Changes] Follow up [Speaker Changes] So what you are saying is you are assuming that 15.5 million is coming as income and then the minuses represent the outlay. Is that correct. [Speaker Changes] This is assuming just the net revenue impact and no monetary outlets. [Speaker Changes] Let me now proceed. I am not quite clear with what that was. [Speaker Changes] Representative is recognized [Speaker Changes] Thank you. Let me support my colleagues who have spoken in defense of transport of rail and by extension bus as an alternative to the private automobile. I hope this general assembly this majority is not with this signaling that it is abandoning our efforts in North Carolina to move forward with public transportation. I just think if any of you are reading [inaudible] any of us read important economic magazines we understand that there is problems with carbon emissions, there is problems depending on the automobile and that for that reason other reasons as well, crowding on the roads and all that. And so in this state a few years ago and actually since I first visited in 1991 where there were not a lot of support in 1991 for public transit but has risen over the years so that our state had made was making through the general assembly a considerable commitment to public transit. And now what it seems we are doing here is not a whole lot of dollars but it’s awfully strong symbolism. Make a symbolic statement with this bill and where you are directing the money that public transit by which I mean rail roads and bus etc is not important . In fact as Mr [inaudible] has been very diplomatic, I suppose is good for him to be in his role. But the fact of the matter is that he has got very good projects that could very well be paid with his money , they planned it that way and why should we delay this. This is a benefit as I heard it benefit for Craven county Newburn. There is a benefit for Western Wade county and carried to Morrisville. And for goodness sake this carried to Morrisville work that the [inaudible] is planning ties in to an NCDOT project to go to the research triangle park . And surely all of us recognize how key to North Carolina’s economic development in the past and in the future , the research triangle park is. And here is a project from minimum amount of money really from rail roads that moved double tracks from Kerry Morrisville and dove tails and fits to NCDOT plan to double track the RTP. How can you take away these kind of dollars from the rail road when it’s doing such amazing things for economic development. RTP is known worldwide for its economic success. I d not understand why you are taking these money away from rail road. As Rep Ross has said about itself I would include myself in those who understand importantly how important R& R fund is. But why you are picking on the rail roads. This just doesn’t make sense to me I think its bad public policy and Rep Howard if I am wrong.

understand this I mean I guess I should ask you this way are they planning to be sub student appropriations from this general assembly for public transit? That is a question for Miss. Germund Forosen if she can respond. [Speaker Changes] Dr. Likey, I'm not on appropriations so I'm not in a position to answer that, but for many years this issue has been out there and as Resemty Carney said no one literally paid any attention to the asset or what was happening we found that there was numerous pieces of property that could be declared surplus. It was a very in depth study. I will challenge anyone that I agree that public transportation is very important. Particularly important for the folks in Rolley and perhaps Charlotte. There's an advantage in having public transportation, but this is a state owned asset owned by the people of Lincoln county, Kataba county, Davey county and every other small community in the state and we have never ever asked the railroad to do any kind of contribution for anything. It's a beginning. It's a very comprehensive bill to pull the properties together, to try to have those declared surplus the ones that the railroad has indicated they do not need do not have any purpose for, and it is a beginning. We initially with the private evaluation the money was going to be sent to the general funds sixth floor. Now what do you think is going to happen when it gets to the sixth floor? There's all kind of needs up there. So, therefore, if we move the money into R&R I agree it's an eye dropper in the ocean but it is a beginning to see we are looking to the railroad and we're very proud of the railroad, the job that they're doing. But it's trying to sell these surplus properties, put that money into R&R trying to have the 15.5 million dollars moved over to R&R and then the annual tricage fee will also go into R&R and I believe that will be imported. That's money that the sixth floor doesn't have to move over into R&R so there can be dollars that are available for the transportation needs that you pointed out so clearly Mr. I wanted to say Mr. Charman, I'll call you Dr. Lukey or representative Lukey or but this is an ongoing project and it is a start to, again every bill that I've stood here and tried to debate and discuss and present that come out of program evaluation I know that you remember why this bills are coming forth. It is to try to fix critical problems that we see in this state and this being one I would ask for the support on the bill Mr Charman now I know that you give the PCS a favorable report unfavorable to the original bill. [Speaker Changes] Thank you for your notion, I have five other people here waiting to make that notion. I would remind the committee that by design when we pass tax bills we're taking money from success so it can be used somewhere for a need so this committee does that all the time. We have a notion that the PCS begin the favorable report unfavorable for the original bill. The question I have down here representing Hamelton and Whydel would like to speak. Ann Collins Representing Hamelton. [Speaker Changes] Thank you Mr. Charman. Just for a statement about the bill, first of all I want to be very clear, I love this bill . I think that it's long overdue.

I think we're in the unique situation here in that this is a state-owned asset that is actually providing revenues, which is an anomaly in itself. It's long overdue to utilize those revenues for some sort of public benefit. My concern about the bill - is just what's been discussed here this morning - is basically where we are directing those revenues, those funds, that are coming off the-- coming from the railroad. I would be much more comfortable directing those funds to a more analogous use. We've talked a lot today about public transportation and mass transit. I would also agree with Representative Howard that those things are very important in some parts of our state, but down around my way we're much more interested in developing the railroad for freight, for economic purpose that support our state [poor] infrastructure. So I would strongly encourage us to consider a change in this bill at some point along the process that would provide those revenue sources strictly towards rail operations. I would even go so far as to exclude any sort of public transit in this particular case. I'm a proponent of public transit, but that's not where these revenue sources are coming from. These revenue sources are coming from the North Carolina railroad that has provided connections for our industrial and manufacturing uses throughout the state, to supplement with CSX and the other rail lines, [excuse me] North or Southern. The work that they've been doing for the past couple hundred years to bring productivity and economic development into the state. So that's my only objection to it at this point is where we're directing the money, and I would like to see that money directed toward the rail. But otherwise I think this is, again Representative Howard, long overdue. Thank you for bringing it to us, and great work by the program evaluation division. Thank you Mister Chairman. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you. I have three more people down to speak, and then I'm going to call for a vote on the bill. Representative Waddell. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I've heard the extended debate about the railroad and where the money's going to go. I'm from a rural county, Columbus, and we don't even have a railroard. We have what is called a railroad. I guess Representative Davis over here will allude to the fact that we have revolution come down and work in [Chabernsome], and they use the railroad there as a prop. So if you have a consideration of where the money should go, I would direct you to Columbus county. Because I'm telling you-- when you're looking at jobs bill now, and you're looking at a jobs place to put the money, we have Georgia Pacific that's been idle in Columbus County. We had over 350 jobs that were taken out of that county. And we have been told indirectly from Georgia Pacific that unless the railroads back up and operational again, they're probably not going to open that company back up again. It will be shuttered forever. We've been working with South Carolina on a rail deal trying to get this private enterprise out of the rail business, the short-line rail business, because they have used up all of the assetts of that rail without doing what Representative Ross was talking about: putting money back into repair and renovation. So, once again I would totally urge my colleagues in here, if you would like to put the $15 million I've got a good place to put it that will create some jobs. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you. Representative Brawley. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Wow. We've had a lot of fighting over this $15 million. And we started off with collecting some dividends and the next thing you know we're debating whether we're committed to rail or transit. I've got a little history on this. I was on the committee that studied selling the railroad, because we're the only state in the lower 48 that operates a railroad - Alaska's the other. And when we found that we didn't have a railroad it was the only way we were going to get one. Now, I think we could get somebody to operate it if we wanted to sell it and monetize that for a lot of needs. We've heard about should the money go to transportation. We've got high speed rail, we have all kinds of people movers. And let's be blunt guys: $15 million. If it goes to repair and renovation we can actually fix some buildings. We can take smaller projects and complete them, and have something to show other than we slightly raised the level in the account that is still.

A fully inadequate and it's not like we're breaking new ground here when the original presentation was made on the railroad we learn that were more toward members of the North Carolina railroad then there were employees and they were taking about $14,000,000 in track rental fees and paying a few expenses and taking the remainder in making economic development grants or the board felt it would reasonably o'clock which is to say for years it was a slush fund and what we're doing is we're pulling and the things that are being laid out by the general assembly where its economy open we know what is happening setting week in five overall we walked to buy we will be able to Middle East demonstrate a few small gains to the people and I am reminded of the story that I was told illustrated to whether the fact of small efforts a man was walking along the beach after a storm and noticed that thousands of starfish had been washed out by the times the salt valley picking up the starfish and throwing them in the water they say why are you wasting your time on the issue cannot make a difference with all these thousands of starfish nine in this on the ballot picked up the starfish threw it back in the water instead I made a difference for about one week and make some small difference here with this bill we will have something to show other than the fact that we spoke we move things around we made our points but somewhere maybe the college and Kent I have for maybe there'll be an office building that will no longer a week may be the only a few potholes fixed in a parking lot but somewhere we will actually do some good thank You . (SPEAKER CHANGES) for wants wishes to win 95 and comments by this to the judge questions from camp that while some rhetoric that can it make a real, one of the drop in the bucket or McKinney magnum of which will lead service finally got $1,000,000,000 transportation Asia, billions of dollars in repair me so that are getting ready whenever say this is certainly not a law referendum on public transit coming for heaven's sake of them transportation fund, 90% of transportation money spent on roads anyone say that this has absolutely nothing to do with whether to public to private transportation allegedly striking in the third thing is if this law rail line item as they all become like and four looks like 1/4 Mondays, go to stem the two products and we can eliminate us the more with Mrs. 20 mile project by serving 12 tries about a policy correctly, they kicked around home be all that you could double the traffic ever think about growth and run one trying every hour 3 miles without , trying so much for pilot Republic one group on the track . (SPEAKER CHANGES) 35 years delay work also learn a sportsman five but that you have a good discussion on this bill that , good as anyone here from at seven would like to speak of them have a request of the day 9:00 PM ocean have become a substitute for hospital 17574 to finish the bill -footed, saying that those opposed to a message that seven a vis a command for lively discussion of a message and ……..