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Senate | February 6, 2013 | Committee Room | Education

Full MP3 Audio File

[0:00:00.0] Good morning everyone, I would like to welcome you to the Education Committee and let me start off by just thanking all the Senators and attendants here. This is an exciting committee to be and we look at the scope of what we are gonna be doing this session, the impact we are gonna have on our children for now and to generations, thank you for your willingness to serve and the contributions make us we strive to get every child of North Carolina the best possible educational opportunities for the future. Let me start by recognizing our Sergeants arms, we have Charles Marcellus, Kent Curby, Ed Caseller and Steve Wilson, thank you for your service gentlemen and we have some pages here, we have Healy Cable for us from Senator Newton’s Office, Emma Levitz if I got that right, McLaurin, Senator McLaurin we have Daniel Folger, Senator Gunn and Robert Fleming, Senator Gunn thank you for being here and helping us out today. Well, we will get right to business as we have Senator ___[01:07] in front of us. First we need a motion to accept the PCS. We have a motion all in favor… [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] All oppose, the ayes have it the PCS before us I’m asking Senator Tillman to come up and explain the bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] And still this… [SPEAKER CHANGES] I would like to recognize one of my School Board Chairman ___[01:46] raise your hands, stand up and be recognized. [SPEAKER CHANGES] ___[01:50], the Chairman of the School Board. We had a few superintendents that are not here and they got called back to the job and I hate they are not here but I know we have got other interested folks and education and typically in this bill that I see right there and a lot of folks who have helped me to work on this bill, a lot of time was spend on it in the interim with the Joint LRC Committee. Harriett Brown has been a big factor in all of this and he’s got some other ideas once we find some money that we want to do that’s not in this bill, we couldn’t cover all the bases, Governor McCrory is very interested in this and has offered some input and advice as we are talking about jobs related, coordinated efforts between the high schools and the community colleges and course alignments specifically aligned to those 9,000 technical jobs that are out there unfilled right now. It will also avoid kids going to college just because mom and dad went and ___[02:58] and have that interest and end up some of them with a degree that they can’t put into a job, they got well around the education but a lot of times they don’t transfer, they does transfer an authority 40,50, 60,000 dollar sometime. We wanna avoid that for these kids that have ___[03:18] and the skills and the technical skills to take advantage of a beefed up coordinated vocational program with the community college. Community colleges onboard, the VPI onboard, School Superintendents are onboard in fact unlike most bills I have not found a lot of opposition to the idea that we are trying to do here. And you will see in this bill a three track, I’m going to shut up because I have a motion, I wanted to make my speech you know, on the Senate floor I don’t do that to you but Senator Stein… [Laughter] [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Chairman I stop. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Chairman. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes, Senator Stein. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I think the bill sponsor just spoken untruth. I have seen that on many occasion at floor… [Laughter] [Background Conversation] [SPEAKER CHANGES] I love Senator Stein. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Chairman. I have a question for the member, Senator Tillman. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes, Senator Pate Mayor. [SPEAKER CHANGES] And this thing doesn’t work. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Sir, does the ___[04:34] category apply to committee meetings? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Senator Payton the hall of resembles that remark. [Laughter] Look we have got one bill today and we are having a good time so I want raise this thing Senator… [Laughter] [SPEAKER CHANGES] Senator ___[04:57] is a freshman in fact we had not even… [0:04:58.8] [End of file…]

That is very good. Why don't we. That's a great idea. We have several freshman members here. What I'd like you to do is just quickly introduce yourself, the district you represent, and welcome you to the committee. We can, why don't we start over here. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Well why don't I do it as well, since the freshman members may not know us all as well. I'm Josh Stein, I represent District 16 which is here in Wake County. [SPEAKER CHANGES] My name is Jeff Tarte. I represent district 41, which is the northern and southern parts of Mecklenburg County. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I'm Trudy Wade, and I represent district 27, and that's Guilford county. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Good morning. I'm Mike Woodard. I represent Senate district 22, which is 51% of Durham County, all of Person, and all of Caswell Counties. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I'm David Curtis, district 44, which is all of Lincoln county and about half of Iredell county and a little bit of Gaston county. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Warren Daniel, district 46, Burke and Cleveland counties. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Malcolm Graham, district 40, Mecklenburg county. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I'm Don Davis. I'm district 5, Pitt, Greene, Wayne, and Lenoir counties. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I'm Earline Parmon, representing Senate district 32, Forsyth county. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Back up. Back up. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Senator Rabin, go right ahead. You're anxious to introduce yourself. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Go ahead and press your button please. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Haven't been in these sessions for a week now, and that said anything I was about to go apoplectic so I thought I had to talk. I'm Senator Rabin, district 12. That's Lee and Harnett county, and about the Western 20% of Johnston county. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you very much. I'm Louis Pate. I'm in my second term here and I know how to operate the mic, I believe. I represent the seventh senatorial district, and that includes parts of Pitt county, part of Wayne county, and part of Lenoir county. I live in Mount Olive which is in Wayne county. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I'm Gladys Robinson, representing Senate district 28 in Guilford county. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I'm Chad Barefoot, represent the 18th Senate district, Wake and Franklin county. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Austin Allran, 42nd senatorial district. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I'm Tamera Barringer. I represent district 17 which is basically southern Wake county. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I'm Bill Cook, district one, Beauford county and seven other counties, and I'm looking forward to your oratory. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Angela Bryant, from Rocky Mount, Nash county, representing all of Halifax, Vance, and Warren and parts of Nash and Wilson counties. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Harry Brown, district 6, which is Onslow and Jones county. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Continue the, I know there's a couple of questions out, and we do have a motion I'm sure you will take. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mister chairman I do have a question. [SPEAKER CHANGES] ?? flip away, I've talked myself out of two good bills since I've been here. This is a true story. John Carr, big John Carr, finance chairman was here for years. Tony Rand was sitting right there, and I was allowed to sit beside him one time. And John was explaining his bill and he went on and on and Tony said back to me, I liked that bill until I heard John's explanation. I said what are you gonna do. He said I'm gonna kill it. And he did. Now it came back to life because I think Tony was playing a game with him, but you didn't mess with Tony. I found that out. I tried several times. I, mister chairman, with the blessings of the chair, my former superintendent when I was young, didn't know much and wanted to share it with everybody. Is here today. ?? you've been around as long as time immemorial. And James Cosby, I believe he's ?? father, he's back there. I think Senator Brown. [SPEAKER CHANGES] All right, Senator Brown, do you have a question? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you mister chairman, I do.

[Speaker changes.]...The PCS deletes the...in section one, deletes including freshman and sophomores...and I know that's a concern at community college, excepting freshmen and sophomore to some of those classes. I have a concern tho' that that's the time that we lose a lot of kids is when they're freshmen and sophomores...and just to create that kind of debate a little bit, I'd like to hear some reasoning behind that. If there's anything we can do about it. I just think in my business and all the technology, if I don't get those kids involved at...when they're freshmen and sophomores, I'm afraid they're not gonna be around when they're juniors and seniors. And the equipment needs are at the community college that are needed to train these individuals so I'd just like to get some explanation why we need to take that out. [Speaker changes.] Senator Tillman? [Speaker changes.] INAUDIBLE 1:01 to 1:14 [Speaker changes.] Senator Tillman, could you turn your mike on just to make sure everyone can hear well? [Speaker changes.] OK...I think that the guidance counselors at both the middle and high school will let these kids that have this interest be really well-informed about what's out there. We can probably take care of some of that and hopefully keep their interest. And, I'm told that we hafta change a law...but Patsy, I understand that we hafta change the law dealing with this in order to put freshmen and sophomores in there...am I... [Speaker changes.] Staff? [Speaker changes.] Yes, sir, Senator Tillman. Section 7.1A of Session Law 2011-145 created "career and college promise" and the career and college promise pathways only include juniors and seniors to qualify for dual-enrollment programs with the community colleges so in Section 3 of the PCS of Senate Bill 14, Senator Brown is correct. Inclusion of freshmen and sophomores was deleted but Section 3 of the PCS is directing the State Board of Education to work with the State Board of Community College to develop strategies to increase enrollment of students in career and technical education so if the State Board of Community Colleges and the State Board of Education come back when they report to the General Assembly in 2014...January 15, 2014...that they would like to amend the career and college promise program to include freshmen and sophomores, they could recommend that to this body and this body could determine if they wanted to change career and college promise to include freshmen and sophomores...so it's really just a process that the General Assembly would need to go through. [Speaker changes.] INAUDIBLE...I would simply say that if they don't do that and we feel strongly, we can do that ourselves. Let's give them a chance, Senator Brown, if you don't mind and we'll see what they come up with. [Speaker changes.] Mister Chair?? [Speaker changes.] Follow up? [Speaker changes.] Just a follow up on that...part of the reason we're tryin' to tie some of this to the community college is the equipment needs that the high schools just aren't able to provide and that's been, in my opinion, one of the things that have held back the advancement of CTE in the past few years is the high schools are just struggling to find those equipment needs and the community colleges as well so it's a struggle in both areas so if we limit freshmen and sophomores from being able to go to community college to take advantage of maybe some better equipment that they could provide over what the high schools could, then I'm afraid we're gonna lose some of these kids early. So anything that we can do to address that issue I think would be important and I think it would surely save some kids from maybe droppin' out of school at an early age. [Speaker changes.] Senator ?????????? [Speaker changes.] I think that's very wise comments. I think we should keep that in mind as we move forward. Thank you. Senator Bryant. Let's go with Senator Robinson and then we'll come back to Senator Bryant. [Speaker changes.] Well, I don't mind Senator Bryant goin' first, I just wanted to ask Staff a question. In the early college and middle college programs in a lot of the counties...and I know we don't have a lot of them in Guilford and it speaks directly to some of this Senator Brown and I agree with you. What is the age tho'? Do they have to wait til junior and senior? Is that a part of the career and college enrollment? [Speaker changes.] Staff?

There’s actually an exception in the career and college that students that are in early college high schools may take those courses all the way through. There’s three tracks, one is career, one is college, one is early middle college high schools. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you. Senator Bryant. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I just wanted to mention in response to Senator Brown’s concern, which I share, one model that I found out about this week in meeting with community college and visiting my high school in Nash County, Nash Community College, for example, in the automotive program actually operates, has a joint agreement with the high school and actually operates the automotive program at the high school and equips the garage or the lab area, whatever, and the high school students use it for part of the day and then the community college students use it in the afternoon and they have a joint facility, but it’s located at the high school precisely to avoid the problem that you are describing. That’s one way around it and I don’t know if want to incentivise those kind of partnerships or encourage that as a way to cover all these student and avoid those kind of bureaucratic hoops. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you. Do we have any other question from members? Senator Curtis, you have a question? [SPEAKER CHANGES] If the Statesville High School has what they call an early college program where they take 9th graders and put them through a five year program with Mitchell Community College. They come out after five years with an associates degree. They’re starting in the 9th grade, is that illegal for them to start in the 9th grade or is there some exception? Or how can they do that? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Staff? [SPEAKER CHANGES] That’s the extension under the career and college promise program. Students who are in high schools that are not early college high schools are limited to Juniors and Seniors, but there is an exception to career and college promise students in early emerald and early college high schools can take dual enrollment classes throughout their high school career. [SPEAKER CHANGES] What is an early college high school? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Staff do you have a definition for that? [SPEAKER CHANGES] There is a special part in article 16 of the statutes that sets up cooperative innovative high schools and early college high schools are a type of these. They are small high schools, typically located on community college class’ campuses, in some cases higher ed campuses have to partner with an institution of higher ed and their goal is to have the student graduate with either two years of college credit or an associates degree and we have somewhere between 70 and 80 of these now operating in the state. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you. Any other questions from members? Senator Rabin and then Senator Wade. [SPEAKER CHANGES] First to come, with regards to what Senator Bryant said. My high school also had what they called at that time a spent hugh shop where the automotives were conducted and high school students, they took a track which way they were going to do it. I think it’s a great idea to do that. My question is in much of what I’ve seen so far in my newness to this body, I believe that the criteria should be jointly established by the school board and by members of the General Assembly, either the joint committee that supervises it or by this committee. The aggregation of the responsibility to set standards to another body may not be the best way to go, I just don’t know if it’s legal, but I do think we should have input directly to the criteria that are established in this and a bunch of areas that we get into. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you for your comment. Senator Wade. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chairman. I just wondered if on the diploma, if we had any word from the state board of education on how they’re going to designate the courses they’ve taken, what technical field. How will that work? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Senator Tillman. [SPEAKER CHANGES] That’s a good question, Senator.We are coordinating everything we do with the community colleges and the high school. June Atkinson has been a big player in helping put this together as well as Scott Rawls. Those courses will be outlined and they’re going to be tailored to the needs that are out there, to the jobs that are out there.

And then we will beef up the vocational program. This has got to get a little transition period to get it going, so you'll see it moving slowly, the first few months, maybe the first year, but after that, several things will be involved. You see, there's no money attached to this bill so we've got to get the equipment established and the exact courses that are outlined, and they will change from time to time, and that's why you have to be very flexible. And we've got a great community college system that does that. And our high schools will have to be more flexible in the vocational offerings. That all will be done as we get into this. The mechanics are in place to do it. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Follow up? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes. Mister chairman, but how do you envision seeing that on the diploma? I mean obviously you can't list all the criteria they've taken, so will there be like special seals, special wording? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mister chairman? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Go ahead, Senator Tillman. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes, there will be three diplomas now. You'll have the, the high school diploma that will be designated either college prep, college vocational, or both. They'll have three seals on there. That will be the signifying thing when you graduate that you've got one of those seals. A lot of kids will go with both, they'll have to take an extra course or two, because they can go either way. Their mind might not be made up. Others will have the regular high school diploma and then they'll have the vocational high school diploma. The seals are already been ordered and ready to go with that. Good question. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I think we might have some clarification from staff. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes, Senator Wade. By February 2014, so about a year from now, the state board of education with input from the state board of community colleges will report back to this body to talk about what these criteria are. Currently in the PCS for Senate bill 14 it just talks about the courses that are completed in an overall grade point average in those courses. And the courses would reflect really the area of concentration as Senator Tillman was saying. For a high school graduate now, to get their diploma they have up to six elective credits, and these endorsements will show a concentration of those electives. For example if they get a career endorsement, then most likely those electives would be all in CTE courses. The state department of education reported to us that they also may require some sort of industry certification, or they may also require certain internships in different businesses. So, as Senator Tillman was saying, those kind of criteria will be developed and then reported back for the endorsements on the, on one single high school diploma. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Well great, thank you. We do have a, we've got three more people on the list of questions. I want to give the audience a, some public comment or question if we've got that, so. I'm gonna, we've got, Senator Woodard, Bryant, and Rucho. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you mister chairman. Just a minor point. I noticed from the original bill to the PCS that the date in section 1A was missing, that the state board would report back, was there? I don't understand the rationale for removing the date, the deadline. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Was that a question Senator? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes. I just wanted to understand the rationale why the date of reporting back September 1st, 2016 was removed. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Staff has got a, it's a technical matter. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yeah, it's a technical sort of bill drafting error on our part. We try not to put dates in the statutes because the statutes stand forever, so it would be odd to then look back, say 20 years from now, and see that date September 1st, 2016. So on the PCS if you look at the last statement on section 1B, which is page 1, line 28, that's where you will see the reporting date. It's just in uncodified language. So the state board still has to report by September 1st, 2016 and annually thereafter. It's just not gonna be in the statute. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you for that explanation. And Senator Bryant. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I just was noticing that we all seem to have different levels of familiarity with these career and technical education programs, and since this may be a focus this session it might be good if we could have, at some point, an overview of early college dual enrollment, career and college promise, all of these different

Special high schools et cetera. So that as a committee, we were familiar with all the different approaches that's depending on what your plan of work is. I'm just throwing that out there as a request. [SPEAKER CHANGES] That's a, thank you for that request. We'll also be in the appropriation subcommittee be going through an awful lot of those things as we look at how the money's appropriated, we'll give a lot of background as to that exact thing. But thank you. Senator Rucho. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Senator Tillman, I want to thank you and Senator Brown for finally getting some light on this issue, and I guess my question is there are a lot of us have been very interested in this, taking an active role in trying to find another avenue for our students rather than dropping out but to get in some kind of career or vocational technical training. It may have been discussed earlier and I apologize for being late, but the real question I have is when do we see something actually work where we're getting our third and fourth year students trained to be able to get some kind of a certificate when they leave with their diploma? How long do we wait? [SPEAKER CHANGES] We're not gonna have that long to wait because this opens up the whole area for these programs to be implemented quickly. And it is job related, and if you have kids that are in this program, they're not gonna drop out. Our vocational center schools where we have them here, the drop out rate is like almost nothing. Those kids, once they get in these programs, seeing it leading to a well paying job, better than the marketplace, better than teachers make after 20 or 30 years, a lot of them, will finally reach the level these kids will start. So they'll stay in school, it'll be job related, and I, the appeal will be there once we get this thing advertised through our guidance counselors we're gonna start that immediately. So it won't be long. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Great, thank you. Do we have anyone from the, let's get Senator Robinson real quick, then we'll see if anyone from the public has any questions. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yeah, just a response, partial response to Senator Rucho, I want you to know that in the early college program in Guilford county, we had 100% graduation. So if that's any indication of how these particular programs that focus on career readiness, training in specific vocational areas, Senator Brown is, the little, the little evaluation that we have so far shows that they are very successful. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you. Do we have anyone from the public that has any questions or comments regarding this? I see no one moving towards the microphone. We do have a motion on the floor, favorable report to the PCS, unfavorable to the original bill. Do we have a second, do we have a, someone moved. And a second. All in favor? Opposed? The ayes have it and the motion passes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mister chairman. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Senator Tillman, we would like a closing remark. [SPEAKER CHANGES] One comment in closing. I recognize former head chairman, A. B. Swindell back there in the back. A.B did a lot of this type thing when he was chairing this and did wonderful work while he was chairing this committee, and chairing the head oversight committee and many other things, and I appreciate him being here and all of the rest of you, and thank you for your attention and help with this bill. Nothing is done in isolation. It takes a lot of people to put it together. Especially Senator Brown, who's helped me and had ideas on this a long time ago. Thank you very much. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you members, and meeting is adjourned.