The House will temporarily come to order for our guests, I know no members. Well, there's a few members on the floor and for our guests. Both caucuses are still meeting at this time and both caucuses I believe have requested a delay if we could start of session so we're going to stand in recess until 11:30 am. The House will continue to be in recess until 11:50. [SPEAKER CHANGES] ?? [SPEAKER CHANGES] The House will come to order. Members, please take your seats. Visitors, please retire from the chamber. The sergeant at arms will close the doors. Members and visitors in the gallery, please silence all cellular phones and personal electronic devices. The prayer will be offered by Representative Burt Jones. Members and visitors in the gallery, please stand and please remain standing for the pledge of allegiance. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Will you pray with me. Our Father and our God, today is another day that your have made. Let us rejoice and be glad in it. You know far better than we the challenges that we face. We pray for your divine guidance that our actions and our words would be honoring to you. Help us to follow the golden rule, to treat others as we would want them to treat us. Help us to treat one another with love and respect. The Bible says that government officials are ministers of God. Help us be true to that high calling and let us be kind to one another, tender hearted, forgiving one another even as God in Christ Jesus offers forgiveness to each of us. As each may choose to pray in their own way, I offer my prayer in the name of my lord and savior, Jesus Christ. Amen. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Amen. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Moore is recognized. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr Speaker the journal for August the 18th has been examined and found to be correct. I move it be approved as written. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Moore moves that the journal for August 18th be approved as written. All in favor say aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] All opposed, no. The ayes have it. The journal is approved as written. Petitions, memorials or papers addressed to the General Assembly or the House. The members please take your seats. Upon motion of Representative Grier Martin and on behalf of all the members, the chair is happy and honored to extend the courtesy of the gallery to honored, to distinguished judges and lawyers from Pakistan on their study tour of modern judicial reform. These visitors are here on behalf of the United States Department of International Visitor Leadership program and the International Focus of Raleigh. Welcome to Raleigh, welcome to North Carolina and the United States. Members, just to, without objection rule 12b is suspended so Representative Brawley can eat. Ladies and gentleman, just by way of explanation for the calendar today if I may have the members' attention, I have Representative Pierce asked me with all these bills on the calendar what was going on. There are three bills on the calendar that are adjournment resolutions. The only adjournment resolution that will be voted on will be the adjournment resolution signing ??. There are two other resolutions that involve a November session, the House has stated the position that we would not receive those well, so of the three bills on the calendar, the
The only one of the robot in Forgione what it would be taken up with beauty adjournment resolution for side that leaves three bills on account of each of those girls were interrelated should tell 24 not house house bill 718 and house bill 189 will also be moved onto the counter so we will either vote on three bills today if anybody dispositional 1224 are simply 1224 I am told however… House and the Senate may have reached and sensors on it: Nashville and some of that involves the of the sentence willingness to accept one of the provisions that were in conflict with some minor modifications so it is possible that if that conference report designs and read it on my will that most of the red and today we can take it up tomorrow and I would expect of permitted committee meeting to review it in the interim some time today sincerity according to the new house rules or else rules parison 2011 conference conference in the Senate and House Road • this report copies of the Senate select Araujo to have symptoms wanted) Reselect House of Representatives representative list you have registered chemoreceptors in and Presnell is the essential purpose promotions the German fairness promotion house.gov for hospital the gentleman has made his motion and Nujoma's recognize that of a commercial Mr. Speaker leisure house become possible to have you for smokable form is an important piece of legislation it is mines you as quickly as I can to benefit the provisions that are going to try to speak briefly about life interprofessional section run-of-the-mill politics account is greater stability and maximum flexibility to change their sales tax authority to allow them to are imposed sales tax on Q-tip 5% currently as you know all most about Tony's Arnaldo Galactica .25 Richard certain counties differently in the state this bill empowers Richards THE same with the exception of those that already have the authority to .75% in which case as we'll discuss later while they were also retaining their but can i will now that the scarabs by majority vote of the county commission and the people in the respective counties to sadness and a sales tax rate position fantasy trades design part of the bill deals with the genetic program that increases the expenses… it lowers the investment threshold from the 65,000,000 to 50,000,000 and on despicable about their interest in law will and testament of the bill creates a new job catalyst found this found is what you for before to is closing for the last little bit all fall incentives that may need to be offered to bring jobs to our state parks the revenue deals with changes to our gigantic for our gigantic program that five of the bill deals with the crowd, six an appeal deals with confidence you allocate employment in for meditation and seven of them are purely technical changes now limited just amendment of the house is gorgeous and spent about spankers talk about okay provisions of this bill just favorable record festival an attempt to counties true equality in battle to establish a referendum to send their sales tax is important i have distributed to most of you have left over county by county but in the interest of time are not well" potential revenue came are capitalized to meet the obligations that they have sarah fossett is saying that under this payroll and with the correct tools that
Will follow, should this bill pass, every county will have more flexibility, more opportunities to meet the obligations that they have. Part 3 of the bill, which deals with the closing fund, it’s very important to understand and I know this, if there’s any word that’s overused on this floor, it’s the word toolbox. But since that seems to be the standard language that we use, I’ll stick with the program. The Job Catalyst Fund provides the framework for assisting the state in just filling in the gaps that may exist in our already good and extensive toolbox. The existing tools that we have are important and they keep our state competitive most of the time. But there are some cases in which there might be a large manufacturing project with a large capital investment, a large number of jobs, and JDig just doesn’t get us all the way there. It’s important to understand that in those rare cases, it’s important that the state have the flexibility to support local communities in providing infrastructure for site prep, that this can make the difference in landing jobs for the people of our state. Raising the changes to the JDig program? Also very important. I’m advised by the Secretary of Commerce that North Carolina has a pipeline of projects right now representing nearly 3,000 jobs across the state, in counties as far-flung as Brunswick, Cleveland, Wilson, Pitt, Bunkham, Guilford and the list just goes on. All of them may not happen. That’s the way the economic development game works. But you have to signal that you’re in business and that you want them and that’s what this bill would do. JDig is used in rural communities. Many of my friends from the rural part of the state have asked me about this. This has been used to bring jobs to Rockingham County, to Bladen, Davie, Rowan, Pander, Catawba, Lee, Burke. This truly is a state-wide program but it’s also important and I speak straight to my friends who like I represent a rural district, it’s also important to understand that if a JDig award is made in a Tier 3 county which is more of our urban counties, that 25% of that grant goes into the industrial development fund, which funds infrastructure in rural counties. I want to speak only briefly about the last two parts of the bill. The part dealing with the confidentiality of the unemployment insurance passed the House unanimously sometime ago. This does correct a problem we discussed on the floor of the House. With your indulgence, I will not rediscuss that. Part 7 of the bill is purely technical changes. All of the changes contained in Part 7 of this bill have previously passed the House and they again are purely technical corrections to various revenue laws. Mr. Speaker I appreciate the opportunity to explain this bill, and I look forward to the debate. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Ladies and gentlemen of the House, the Chair would like to extend a welcome and a courtesy of the gallery to a group from Accenture. Accenture is an organization I know as a partner of Price Waterhouse, we always considered you all a worth second-tier competitor. But no in all seriousness, welcome and please stand and let us welcome you. [APPLAUSE] And dependent upon the outcome of an election in November, I may have a resume for you. [LAUGHTER] Also upon request from Representative Speciale, the Chair would like to extend the courtesies of the gallery to a very special young man with his grandma up to my right.
representative Speciale's grandson, Cameron. Cameron, please stand and let us welcome you. Representative Stam please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To speak on the conference report. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman is recognized to debate the motion. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mister speaker, members, this bill has a nominal cost if used as intended of two hundred million dollars. Now some of that is in the future and it'd be appropriate to discount it to the present worth. I don't have the data to exactly do it but I'm going to estimate it costs a hundred and fifty million dollars. We're supposedly voting on this in order to fix a T A problem which has a statewide significance as estimated by O S B M of about four million. So the senate want us to trade a hundred fifty million for four million. Let me address the expenditures on the- other people will be addressing the sales tax issue, I'd like to address the expenditure part. All of us, when we go to see our civic clubs or other political clubs, we're in favor of free enterprise. I'd like to read you just a one sentence quote but it's a long sentence. A statesman, that's you, who should attempt to direct private people, that's them, in what manner they ought to employ their capital would not only load himself with the most unnecessary attention but assume an authority which could safely be trusted, not only to no single person, but to no council or senate whatever, and which would nowhere be as dangerous as in the hands of a man who had folly and presumption enough to fancy himself fit to exercise it. I don't think I have the ability to decide where this hundred and fifty million should go and I don't think commerce does either. Oh, who said that by the way. Well that was actually written three hundred years ago or so but is equally applicable to our vote today. That's Adam Smith in the Wealth Of Nations for those of you who claim to be free enterprise people. Now, let's take them one at a time. The J Mac modification is to keep an employer here, Evergreen, which otherwise might leave when they've already agreed to invest fifty million dollars and they've been there for forever and natural gas is coming. Well I feel sorry for Evergreen that EPA has harassed them with this new rule change but they are not going anywhere. I feel sorry, I wish we could give them twelve million dollars but it's not savnig jobs because those jobs aren't going anywhere anyway. Let's look at JDIG. When I mention the hundred and fifty million dollar figure, other people say well we'll get that money back from the taxes that people pay from their new employment. That assumes that there is new employment but we've had study after study that shows the lack of proof that this actually induces employment. We had a program, the ?? act, and we had U N C look at it and they determined that ninety six percent of the jobs for which credit was taken would have come here anyway. Four percent were actually induced but you were paying for ninety six percent that were not induced. That was from the economist at Chapel Hill. Take a look at what I passed out from the ?? center, research summary twenty fourteen. This is just one of dozens and dozens of research- people who don't have a stake in the money to be received, the economists who study it say this kind of stuff just does not affect the overall economic well being of a state. It doesn't work and the reason it doesn't work is this. When Apple or Google decided to come to North Carolina, and blessings to the counties were they came, they paid a million dollars- we paid a million dollars per job, for those. And I will concede that that probably induced them to come. Paid a million dollars per job. We got
opposed and how much we paid, but it probably did induce them. Then you see all these announcements that come out. I saw one today in the Insider about some new company that was coming and the amount of money they paid per job for the state and local was so little it could not possibly have affected the decision to locate. Well if you pay way too much or if you pay not enough to induce than that money paid by the state is an incredible waste of money. It is only if you are exactly on the button, exactly the deciding factor that it actually induces anything, but how will you ever know. I put on your desk the, a press release from 2009 about the Dell incentives and we paid out I don't remember about $28,000 per job something like that, is that right Representative Lambeth, to get this over here. And supposedly we had all these clawbacks and repayment schemes and but we didn't. We didn't. The only way really to get a clawback on this money is to put a deed of trust on the property so that you're a secured creditor so that you have priority over the trustee bank in bankruptcy and other creditors. We didn't do that, so they didn't pay everything back. In the finance committee when we considered this catalyst fund, I suggested to the secretary three things. One get a real clawback with security. They didn't do that. The second thing I suggested was take tier three counties out of this. Tier three counties don't need it. They refused to do that, so tier three counties are gonna get most of this money. How do I know? JDIG. That's everybody's favorite program, JDIG. 86% of it goes to tier three counties. If you're from a tier one or tier two county and think you're gonna get this, all this money for projects, it's not gonna happen. They wouldn't take that. I also suggested that they reduce their number of jobs and amount of investment by half so that two good projects could qualify instead of one huge project. They refused to do that. It's the same idea that it's only the huge project that produces economic wealth and we just know that that is not true. Every economic study, I've passed I mean, is it true Representative Wells? OK. Im through. The final one well that's the three. They add up to $150 million. Some people say $150 million. That's the present worth, but some of this is gonna go for 6 years or 12 years. But folks we do this every session. It's usually the last week of a session and they try to jam down a big giveaway to an out of state corporation and that's what we've got here. So you've gotta add this $150 million every year and that $150 million different people would do different things with it. That's the present worth. Some people would use it for teacher for all the teacher's assistants in the world. Some people would use it for medical care. Some people would use it to fix our building. Some people would put it in reserves, so we have a true rainy day reserve. But don't think that this is free money that we're passing out and that somehow we're gonna get it back from these companies because that's not why they come here. They come here because of a calculation based on all of their costs, all the benefits, and this catalyst fund of $20 million, is that it? Can't possibly be enough to actually induce Continental Tire to come to Brunswick County. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Presnell please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To speak on the conference report. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The lady is recognized to debate the motion. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Evergreen I wanted to kind of explain to you, this is 1,000 jobs, 300 of which come directly from Buncombe County from Representative Fisher's district and Representative Moffitt and Representative Ramsey's district. They also there's 11 counties involved that have actual employers, employees that go to the paper mill for jobs. My district is Haywood where the paper mill is located.
People come from Madison County and Yancey County, Representative McGrady's district, Representative Hager's district, Representative West, his district. Representative Dobson. Representative Whitmire. Representative Queen and Representative Jordan. These jobs are real, real jobs. If we lose these, we are a Tier 2 county. My whole district is, if we lose these we are going to be the poorest of the poor and it will take 20 years to gain any kind of jobs back in that area. These mountain people need these jobs. These are 78 thousand dollars a year plus benefit kind of jobs. You don't find those in the mountains. They're not just everywhere. These are very very high paying jobs. I thought I would explain to you I went to some of the - my lager friends, the Gilleys, and I asked them exactly how this, the Canton paper mill affect you. And he was very adamant, he said that the small trees that they cut, when they clear for a business or whatever's coming in, the smaller trees are loaded and they go down to Rutherford County, Representative Hager's district, and they are chipped and from there they send them to the paper mill in Canton and they make the paper. Paper cups, paper plates, regular paper. They've been there for a very long time. They change what they're going to make sometimes but it's a very necessary kind of a thing. This is the business that needs your help. The EPA boiler MACT regulation straight out of Washington has told them they have to change to natural gas. They're doing this because they're forced to do it. This will cost them. They're putting in 50 million. They're only asking for 12.8 from the state. They need a little bit of a boost, a little bit of a help to do that. This, for years to come, will be 5 million dollars a year more than this company is going to have to pay because they're being forced to go to natural gas. I'll say one more thing, this is infrastructure. A lot of you that are in urban areas, you already have natural gas that come to your counties. We don't. Up in the mountains we do not. This is going to bring infrastructure and natural gas to all the mountain counties so that we can hook onto it eventually. We need this for that right there so that right there will bring more manufacturing jobs once we have that natural gas there. I certainly do hope you will help me and vote for this bill. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Jackson please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Speak on the motion. Gentlemen is recognized to debate the motion. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Speaker, thank you everyone. It pains me to stand up and speak today and so I hope you'll listen to what I have to say. I don't usually stand up and interrupt others with questions, I'll wait to the end. I hope you will give me that same courtesy. We should have been out of here 2 weeks ago when we had a chance and that's when House leadership made a commitment to me personally that 1224 was dead. A promise around here apparently does not mean what it means when I give someone my word. I am not naive about the political process but I do think when House leadership comes - [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Jackson the Chair does apologize for interrupting but just to set the proper context: the Chair is taking up 1224 under the understanding and it will be explained later that the other 2 bills the Change of Material Provision, which I believe is the one you were concerned with, is the only reason it's being considered. 1224 in it's current form will not be allowed to go into law without the other 2 bills taken up today being passed. If they are not passed, this bill will not go into law. The gentleman may proceed. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Speaker. Well my problem is with 1224 and some of you saw me raise it in the rules and saw me approach the Chairman and speak privately and when we came back to session, leadership came took a knee beside my desk and told me "This bill was dead" and I said "All I need is your word" and I was told "You have it" and I said "That's good enough for me, I'll sit down and be quiet." I know it's a popular myth about Raleigh and DC politicians. They'll say anything to get elected and never keep their promises. But it doesn't have to be that way. We could treat each other with respect and honesty. If I'm against your bill, I'll tell you. I don't need to break my promises. People should honor their commitments. When they don't, we descend into chaos. That's what we've been the last two weeks.
I'll address this bill does matters we have been told that you agency I used you we pass this bill will be cleared centers are listed home today and the Democrats didn't at least two years of compositions a will naturalists you stamp on the floor and sellers the real wrong for not supporting communities when you said it has made any face on PowerBuilder us Derek Salinas in the majority in his chambers were limited with is a really simple thing recorded in rules over backward to Senate leadership in order to harvest large counties or maybe some personal vendetta against one particular one there the Senate is holding this whole process Democrats just because we decided be rubberstamp the Senate doesn't mean my caucus plans to be rubberstamp the to go back to Louisiana now and we can bowed out ecclesiastics and put them form be don't with this very week of the my guess is that represented representative reads accident glazier represented clean advantages the burgeoning part of the current educational positions including CNEs despite majorities in the governor's very public announcement otherwise the digested like idea to contradict hundred dollars sound system state police Grosvenor children's bathrooms emptied large every day to have $1000 to the state always going to saying exactly ENERGETICS of the gentleman will focus on the content of your conference report in question thank you Mr. enough so exists article insulating Kitty Hawk elementary hundred dollars and what's ready Against teachers electronegative mail this incident last week lives is more difficult money from education to reduce physicians in education and classroom represented employees and tell teachers and students they went to negative mail clients that would be your budget that sets are longest-serving teachers those in and in classroom 29 years they will if I will hundred $43 and about possibly when I put the images Wednesday if you will build his problems domestically you are will help you in a separate bill to the Senate doesn't take a belief that only those decisions Nautilus… We could address and represents an opportunity 20 million or 200 million other members this incident will say that they G is in response to specific projects what is district benefit from so I don't I said members that will exhaust their districts the statement of the sport is you are doing what they need to do the other hundred 15 of a similar opportunities about this I 381 point million dollars beginning in 2002 you on the state of August this year is a regulatory filing with the SEC stating that they are considering restructuring encephalopathy divisions including Evergreen animal cruelty is last years enormities were 1400 $41 million Evergreen Esser project itself I see $.4 million the company's latest 60% at least on paper and last year the company that is owned by the richest person in New Zealand not even America is hundred and 29 richest person in the world he has a net worth of $7.1 billion in last year film is traditionally County that we currently sales-tax holiday a few weeks ago it was in an area so that we can view the 229 richest man in the world same million dollars and you can plan a single-payer some district where invested Fabens in school clothes and school supplies for their children and so you took away you want $25 billion hundred really believe if you don't give him $14 million that he's got a close research jobs crazy thinking is that disputes of
against the Senate arm-twisting, and take a stand to extortion-like tactics, which is what I would term them. I'm gonna ask you to vote against going back on your word and the commitments that your leadership has made. I'm going to take... It's gonna take your vote to make them keep their word. I'm gonna ask you to vote against corporate welfare, and walking-around money for the Department of Commerce. I'm gonna ask you to vote against giving billionaires the hard-earned tax money of our residents. I simply ask that you vote against this bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Dollar, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Speak to the conference report. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman is recognized to debate the motion. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Members of the House, let me mention just a couple of areas in this bill that greatly concern me. The first is as it relates to White County, and I know that there are subsequent bills and from the... As the Speaker alluded to a moment ago, that are supposed to modify 1224, but let me tell you what the net effect would be for those of us here in White County. Currently, White County has 2% on its local sales tax. This would put White County in the position of, if they want to do anything about transportation over the course of the next two years, to either have to vote for three-quarters of a cent in sales tax in two separate votes, but three-quarters of a cent increase in sales tax in 2016, or do a quarter in 2016 and not be able to address transportation until 2018. Now, that is just not the fair to the now one million citizens who live here in White County. The basic transit plan that we have been discussing here in White County is based on buses. We need it. We are looking at that. Our county commissioners have been looking at that. We need that opportunity, but we don't need to have our hand forced at local government to say "Well, you've gotta do that three-quarter cent in 2016," because if you look at what we passed earlier, at Senate Bill 403, we would have to have the vote in that year. And that's a scenario that we have. And so, our chamber is opposed to this, and a host of our other leading citizens are opposed to this here in White County, because it's simply not fair to the one million citizens who live here, and their opportunity of local government to have some control over their tools to make local decisions. The other area that concerns me very greatly is this job catalyst fund, and the term "walking-around money," unfortunately, is kinda the right term. We, for the last... At least the last 10 years that I've been here, we have worked and actually on a bipartisan basis, in this House, to have controls over the incentives. Now, I have not been a purist on incentives. There are some incentives that I have voted for on this floor, there are other incentives that I have voted against, but one thing I can speak of, that I have been consistent on, is that we have the appropriate controls, that we have the appropriate callback provisions, that we pass incentives where we really know what it is that we're gonna be doing with the money, and that we have criticized folks on both sides of the aisle, for past governors, just to put it like that, of having walking-around money, and how we wanted to get away from that. This is sort of back to the future, in this provision, when the secretary will actually come up with the guidelines. And it really doesn't matter which secretary. We've had some very fine secretaries from both sides of the aisle serve in that office. It's not about the individual, it's about the principle involved, and this is not the right principle for committing 20 million dollars, and who knows what amount of future money. And if this money doesn't... I mean, money doesn't revert, it stays there, and who knows what the fund will be in the future. And also, some of the provisions that are in there, I'm not sure that your tier 1 counties are even gonna have projects that will be able to access this. This is just trying to shoot for some big fish out there, that may or may not be out there. And under a scenario whereby it will be basically up to the Senate
of Commerce to decide what the regulations are, what the guidelines are, who gets the money, how much and who doesn't get the money. Now that is contrary to what we've been attempting to do on a bipartisan basis for accountability in these funds for the last 10 years and I would request you to vote no on this conference report. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Hurley please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To debate the motion. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The lady is recognized to debate the motion. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and gentlemen of the house I'm just going to speak to what I know in Randolph County. I am, when I first came down here 8 years ago, I was definitely against incentives but I have learned how much it has helped Randolph County and I'm going to speak to the Jdig fund in particular because that is what has helped us very much. A company in Minnesota which was then known as Malt-O-Meal, a cereal company, one of the top 4 in the country, came to Randolph and looked at the store. In 2009 we had a building that hadn't been used in 2.5 years. A Unilever, it was a Unilever building and they had 150 jobs and it had been closed for 2.5 years. ?? Brands created 124 new jobs, they invested $124 million, they received a $1.09 million Jdig grant from the state of North Carolina. In 2010 ?? Brands announced a major expansion where they created 80 more jobs. They invested $136 million then. They received a $350 thousand grant from one North Carolina fund, from the state of North Carolina incentives. ?? Brands is now the largest taxpayer in Randolph County and the city of Asheboro. They met and exceeded their commitment and I don't know of any reports of what they're doing, whether this is taken away or added but they did do what they committed to do for our county and city. They are a great corporate citizen with us. They have donated 1 million bowls of cereal to North Carolina food banks, they have supported the United Way for $10 thousand a year. They support the Randolph County Partnership for Children at their annual fundraiser, they have supported Randolph Hospital, they support the YMCA Capital Fund, they support the Randolph Community College Foundation and they are an active supporter of the Asheboro Chamber and the Randolph County EDC. Over the past 20 years Randolph County and its cities have a very accountable and successful return on investment from economic development incentives. 37 projects for new and existing industries, 2,851 jobs created, 712,115,225 in new capital investment, 16,758,383 in state incentives promised, 14,718,289 dollars in local incentives promised, 10,309 of these incentives used exclusively for public infrastructure and they rebuilt 10 vacant buildings with these programs. I know this worked in Randolph County and my taxpayer dollars are used just as your taxpayer dollars are. They're not used for everything that we want or we need or our family needs. I don't have any children in the public schools, I don't have anyone in the prison system and my tax dollars are going there and I know we promised we would do this and the state promised they would pay for this, but our taxpayer dollars don't go for everything that we want but this does to me, it does help our citizens and it does create jobs and that's why we supposedly came down here, to help our citizens and create jobs and this will create jobs, and I don't like everything in any of the bills hardly that I vote for, but we need to step up to the plate and do what is right for North Carolina. Thank you. Please vote yes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Ladies and gentlemen, the chair would ask any member who intends to speak on the bill to turn their light on at this time. There is 12 lights on. Any member who has his lights on will be entitled to speak. I guess 13 with Representative Stam requesting to speak a second time. The
Speaker :we are going to take vote on this bill at 1 p.m the chair is gonna allocate two minuted for each of the speaker and they would be recognized in turn in the turn that they would be recognized Representative stones is recognized to debate the motion in the period not to exceed two minutes Speaker Changes:thank you Mr.Speaker i would like to ask Representative Michelle a question first please Speaker Changes: Representative Michelle does the gentlemen yells Speaker Changes: yes Speaker Changes: the gentlemen yells Speaker Changes: gentlemen i asked you this question because i picked you ?? having the leggislator up here and new 30 you ever had a ?? come back bill you ever had two bills depend upon one of the bill passing Speaker Changes:i cannot recall very honestly anything right up there they have been trying to do that but every time when they blackmail ?? Speaker Changes:thank you now debate the bill gentlemen Speaker Changes:is recognized for debating for a period of two minute Speaker Changes:ladies and gentlemen i m trying to before you cause this process i just promise myself to be everyday personal today ?? before i were got here whatever today people think and i want to remain you when they see that what we are dong in ?? putting on five bills three bills depending upon the bills they are passing they may be crazy this process may be another fault fault been gone for decades who knows Representative ?? says that he haven't see such things before ?? Washington D.C has the worst process in the nation the interesting thing that i have heard in politics that everything i heard was ?? rank no 2 i bet you have freed proud people today have ?? they see what we are doing in out here North Carolina got passed two bills to get one Bill this is not what we decide a rule that we decide to do as a general assembly the state of north Carolina so the real question becomes when do you stand up and make a change is today that day are we all tired of passing ?? like or do you want to each bill to stand on it' sown make a choice stand up vote no Speaker Changes: Representative ?? please state your purpose Speaker Changes: to debate the motion Speaker Changes: the gentlemen is recognized to debate the motion i heard my name mentioned earlier one to go and give reason today i tried to make my decisions first my district second my state and last my party that caused me some problem time to time but i want me to understand ?? decisions that i make today and that i because ?? are they gonna be fairly across the state or gonna be one are or another if you look at the transportation plan ?? money for north east Carolina to out it to make for a state wide bucket that now my first project is 121st 20 years away before we are gonna see transportation funding we added fair reasons there we ?? more local vision bucket we make economic development into order we have no plan right now to really get into economic development do it are no infrastructure do it that hearing from our folks that was more able to get not before that was ?? from the state the district level north east is not gonna be include in this plan from 500 jobs ?? Washington ?? passport tank it's gonna be next to them possible 800 jobs to come to ?? county we never had that employees in our existence it's not good for the state either because when you look for ?? most challenged counties in the state you are making a choice that you are gotta make some of the kind of money ?? because three types of money that can o out to us three other reasons have supported economic reasons like education transportation or they send us welfare ?? and that's not good for north carolina so i ask you u to vote no go back to drwaing board and come up with a plan that gonna be good for all of north Carolina Speaker Changes: Representative time that was perfectly timed Representative ?? please state your purpose Speaker Changes: to debate the motion Speaker Changes: the gentlemen is recognized to debate the motion for a period of two minutes Speaker Changes: thank you Mr.Speaker i shall not be long because what i intended to say ?? Representative dollar and ?? but it's fine to say that it is difficult for us to expand twenty million dollars and a fair
Manner across this state. Yes, I recognize that we will give a lion's share to projects such as Evergreen, Goodyear and possibly Continental, but that still does not address the needs of the small tier one counties and that, therein lies my problem. These counties by and large will still be without any economic resources or advantages and so I don't know how we're helping them. I know that many of the folk who represent these rural counties think that this may be a remote potential for them, but realistically it probably is not and so until we can address something that's concrete and specific for these rural, struggling counties I'm going to have difficulty supporting it. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Pittman is recognized for a period not to exceed 2 minutes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, sir. When I talked to Senator Rucho last year about the task reform bill I made the statement to him that eliminating corporate income taxes would eliminate the justification for a senate and he not only agreed with me but as I recall he seemed to state that that was part of his motivation in that bill, and we passed that tax reform and in it having reduced corporate income taxes it seems to me counterintuitive now to turn around and increase incentives programs. 1224 expands tax incentives programs and gives the Secretary of Commerce I believe too much power without checks and balances. It means more government intrusion in matters of private enterprise, it means moving, I believe, more towards socialism. I believe in smaller government which should mean keeping government within bounds of this government responsibility and reducing the budget wherever possible. If we can't eliminate corporate income taxes and personal income taxes and incentives all at once, we should at least reduce government spending by reducing incentive spending toward the goal of eliminating them not expanding them. I also believe that the teacher assistance fix that we need to the budget should not be held hostage to 1224 and I don't believe in cooperating with extortion. You know, comparing it to drug addictions, you know, some people go cold turkey, some people need to be weaned off and it's just debatable what's the best way to go about it but either one is better than staying hooked. I'd like to get us off the addiction to incentives and I'd like to do it cold turkey, but if we can't we should at least be reducing what we're doing with incentives toward that goal of eliminating it and not just staying hooked on it, so I ask you to vote against this bill. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Carney, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To speak on the bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The lady is recognized for a period not to exceed 2 minutes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Speaker and ladies and gentleman of the House. I rise today just to ask you to think about a couple of things in relevance to what we are doing. What this process has been since we came here in the end of May. 1224 was filed by Representative Presnell and you can look it up, on May the 27th. It was sent through the committee process. It was a clean Evergreen bill, everybody thought it was sold on a great project, bringing jobs in the future, and let me tell you you can go home today no matter how this vote turns out and 110 of us can say I voted to bring jobs to North Carolina. I voted to bring jobs to North Carolina because we did and we sent it to the Senate, and it sat over there, that was on June the 25th we voted on it, so it sat over there through the month of April and it grew and it grew and it grew and then it came back over here and then on August the 1st, we sent it to rules. It used to be when a bill was sent to rules up here it was dead. Well, that's no longer the case because we know we resurrected it yesterday but on Friday a lot of us in here said, no, we're not going to bring it back up. We've dealt with it. Now we had two choices. We were told we were coming back to do a simple technical corrections bill for teaching assistance. We did that in rules, clean bill, passed it out, didn't come back to the floor.
We're still having that hanging over us because the Senate says we need twelve twenty-four. There's so many things wrong with this process. I can not figure out why from the time twelve twenty-four was first heard in this chamber, I never heard from the state economic development association. I didn't hear from that chamber. i didn't hear from the North Carolina chamber. And all of a sudden, sir, yes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Carney. The lady's time has expired. If you want to finish a comment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] May I just close. That all of a sudden, this has become more important than coal ash we may pick up, but Medicaid. We can not afford this economic development plan if you will just take the time to look at the trees and not the forest. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Carney. The lady's time has expired. Representative Ramsey, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Speaker, to speak on the motion. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Gentleman is recognized to debate the motion. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Speaker. This should not be a contentious bill. This bill does things that we all want it to do. We all want to adjourn and go home. We have a bicameral legislature. We can not tell the people across the way what to do and they can not tell us what to do. We have to have a meeting of the minds. And it's not extortion for them to ask for certain things in an adjournment and it's not extortion for us to ask certain things from the Senate, but it takes two to tango. And that's what we're trying to do today so we can adjourn and finish the people's business. It addresses the teacher assistant issue. We didn't cut teacher assistants. We had a pot of money that increased funding for teachers in the total pot of money for teachers and teacher assistants and this allow local schools to have the flexibility to fund teacher assistants or more teachers. That's what my school districts want. That's what all our school districts want and that's good for all people in this state. The North Carolina economic development association sent us an email today. Sent us email previously saying they support this bill. They're not Democrats. They're not Republicans. They think it will help us be more competitive for jobs. My local chamber, the actual chamber of commerce. The Henderson County Chamber of Commerce contacted us and they said, pass this bill. We did some good things with tax reform, but we're still competing against South Carolina, Texas, and other states that are out gunning us on incentives. We don't have to offer the most incentives. We have the best community college system. We have the best university. We have the best quality of life. But, we need to be in the game and you know whose opposed to this bill? Economic developers from those states. And finally, I sympathize with my friends from Wake County, but we're talking two years down the road, so the next general assembly, we can't bind them. And so, in twenty fifteen, Wake County comprises ten percent of the state's population. Ten percent of the members of this body and we can come in and make a fix to address the concerns that the folks from Wake County have suggested. So, I was contacted by Democrats from my community. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Ramsey, the gentleman has ten seconds to wrap up. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I was contacted by Republicans. This is not a partisan bill. I ask you this, please support this bill. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Jones, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To debate the motion. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman is recognized for two minutes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Speaker. Ladies and gentlemen of the House. House bill twelve twenty-four is a package of several totally unrelated issues. Very controversial issues. Each of which could have been considered on their own merit and not at the end of the session. If you like the bill, vote for it. If you don't, vote against it. But, I believe most people that I've heard from think that this process is disrespectful to this institution, disrespectful to our members, and therefore disrespectful to the citizens of North Carolina that we are honored to represent. This is not a partisan issue. I believe that most members from this House representing both sides of the aisle, strongly desire the opportunity to pass a stand alone bill to fix the concern about the teacher assistants. This is not about whether North Carolina will use incentives or not. We've already passed a budget that funds incentives. Ladies and gentlemen, with all due respect, this is a sad day for this institution. I oppose the bill and I oppose the process and I will vote no. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Collins, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To debate the motion. [SPEAKER CHANGES] For two minutes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I'd like to point out a couple things that really we haven't dealt with much this time around. I'll try not to repeat what anybody said. A couple of the provisions that are actually, probably more...[end]
likable to some of the folks here. One deals with the county option issue. We were handed a sheet that I, anytime you hand me something I am going to read it, especially if it's filled with numbers. And this one showed what the counties are charging, currently, as far as sales tax goes. Now, I looked up my two counties and I did a quick count and, if I counted correctly, 65 out of 100 counties right now are only charging a 2% sales tax which means they can go up any time they want to another quarter cent without this provision. So 65 of the 100 counties don't need House Bill 1224. You might look and see whether your counties are on there, both of mine are. Second thing I'd like to point out is that I too don't like what's going on, sometimes, with EPA and the way they're making businesses spend a lot of money on things that really are controversial but we've gone the other direction in North Carolina over the last four years. We've tried to reign in regulatory hindrance of business and so forth, so not only with this particular vision are we being held hostage by the Senate, I'd say we're being held hostage by federal regulators. Are we going to have to come and bail out our companies in North Carolina every time federal regulators put extra expense on? I'd say the folks there in Western North Carolina need to be taking this up with their U.S. congressmen and their senators. They're the ones that can control what the federal folks are doing and when they get off the reservation they need to let them know that. They really do. Third thing I'd like to point out is that Secretary Dexter has said, on a number of occasions, that she feels like, as we get further down the tax reform process and [??] will become less necessary, but we have already done some tax reform. We've gone a good bit of tax reform. When I came to this chamber four years ago the Tax Foundation ranked us 42nd to best tax burden and now we're up to 17th. Most of our other surrounding states were in the teens, now I see that South Carolina's down to 37th, Georgia's down to 32nd. Surveys of corporate CEO's have shown that things like incentives of short-term boost are a part of their decision making process but a much smaller part than long term profitability, which is based on your tax rates, it's based on infrastructure- [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Collins, the gentleman's time is expired. If you want to wrap up. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Okay, so I would ask that you vote against this bill. Let's take a long term approach and let our tax reform work. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Speaker. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Cunningham, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] A point of person privilege, please. I'm in the back and I am trying to hear and pay attention to the speaker so- [SPEAKER CHANGES] The lady's comments are well received. Members, if you will please remain quiet for the remainder of this debate which will only be about eight minutes. Representative Wilkins, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To speak to to the motion. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman is recognized for two minutes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm trying to figure if I can come with enough stuff to say to pack into two minutes. We're going to wind up debating this bill for a little over an hour and that is after we have spent about ten hours in caucus preparing to debate it. But still, I'm supposed to speak to the bill and to my own feelings about it. Well, I'll tell you this, I am, I've been here almost ten years and for the first time ever I am preparing to vote against the business incentives package. But I'm not just voting against the business incentives package, I'm voting against a poorly conceived package. Many of you have already said it, I'll repeat it, we can do better. Let's kill this thing and do better. Thank you very much. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Speciale, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To speak on the motion. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman is recognized to debate the motion for two minutes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I'll be brief as I can. I'm finishing up my first two year term up here but I can tell you that I sat up in that balcony for the last 14 years watching what was going on down here. I watched Frank Williams, who's not here. I watched John Blust, I watched Leo Daughtry, I watched some of the old folks over the years, folks that have been here. I watched them arguing on the floor here as I looked down, arguing against this type of thing, arguing against these walk around money bills, this type of stuff, these incentives, and I thought, "Oh, if only the republicans could be in charge." And that's what a lot of the state thought. If only the republicans were in charge they would fix this, they would quit doing this. They would quit spending our money. They would quit taking them dollars out of my pocket and giving it to someone else.
if only, and we got the chance, and I thought 'okay, things are going to be better and I'm going to be part of that. I'm going to be up here and I'm going to help make things different. And I'm so glad that we're so smarter than the folks that were here before us because we've got this new catalyst fund, we've never had something like that. Oh wait a minute. That is still walking around money, isn't it. The very thing that we argued year after year after year about easily about Purdue having this walking around fund. The only thing I can say is please think about what you're doing here. Please think about who sent you up here and why they sent you here, and somebody had said vote what's best for North Carolina. I am going to vote what's best for North Carolina, and I'm going to vote against this. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Rep. Steve Ross is recognized for a period not to exceed 2 minutes to debate the motion. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Speaker, I'm gonna give it a try. You know since 2007, 2008, we've been going through what they've been calling the great recession. I won't have to tell you what that did to North Carolina and the rest of the country. We all ran, or most of us ran on a platform of trying to create jobs. Well creating jobs means more than lip service. I spent about 20 years in local government, working, trying to bruing business to my community. I was actually one of the early negotiators on the Honda aero deal. I don't have to tell some of you what that deal did for the Piedmont tri out of North Carolina. Not only has it brought hundreds of jobs and hunreds of millions of dollars to the triad, but it's also brought a lot of other aerospace industry in to piggyback on top of it. Now I don't like the process, I don't think there's any one of us in here that like the process of what's taking place, but I know one thing. You have to be competitive. If you're not competitive, you're not in the game. And I've been looking at some of the figures from some of the surrounding states, and incidentally, all of your southern states have this kind of package. 37 million in South Carolina, sitting there as a closing fund. 76 million in Texas, and by the way Texas ranks number 11 in the Tax Foundation rankings. That's a little better than us, but they still have $76 million sitting there. What about Alabama? 131 million. Now I said yesterday to agree with people, I said I don't want to go into a gunfight being the only person who don't have a gun. So why do we want North Carolina to go into job creation until our commerce department, you know you're going to go out here and some of these states have some pretty good sized cannons. And you're not going to have anything to shoot back with. I don't like incentives but until congress changes and levels the playing field, it's a fact of life. And one last thing in closing, in addressing the evergreen situation, and a comment that was made earlier, that's a lot of people up there that have jobs and I don't think there's a single person up there that has a job that cares who owns the company. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Rep. McElraft is recognized for a period not to exceed 2 minutes to debate the motion. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Speaker. I just wanted to clarify a couple of things: One thing on the sales tax for the counties, as a former county commissioner it's very important that we have these new sales tax changes. And yes, I'm a 2 cent county, and why haven't my county commissioners passed a sales tax? Because it would have been for a general purpose. This actually will specify that sales tax for education if you go 43a, I believe it is. So that'll be much easier for my county commissioners then to pass it. Knowing that the state now is giving at the 9th level nationally for education. 9th level. But when you add in our locals, we drop down into the 40s. This will give our counties an opportunity to raise money, to start pitching in their fair share. We have medicaid that we took away from the counties, and now it's time that they pitch in their fair share. This'll give them that opportunity because they can earmark that money for education to make it easier to pass. On incentives, quickly because I know I only have 2 minutes, we are tying our commerce secretary's hands behind her back, if she doesn't have the same tools, I go with the tools in the toolbox, that other states surrounding us have. And you know what, I've heard that it's immoral to do incentives, and I'm not for incentives when we have all the jobs that we can have in this state
When no one’s unemployed. I’m not for incentives. I’m for tax reform that helped us and I think it will help bring more corporations here. It already has. But right now, we’re not to a point where we can’t look and have tax incentives to bring those other jobs in. What, how moral is it to leave someone without a job? How moral is it? It is very moral to be able to give someone a hand up instead of a hand out. That’s what we’re about. Thank you. Vote for this bill please. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The question before the House is the adoption of the Conference Report for House Bill 1224. All in favor vote aye. All opposed vote no. The clerk will open the vote. [PAUSE] The clerk will lock the machine and record the vote. 47 having voted in the affirmative, 54 in the negative. The motion fails. Representative Moore, please, notices and announcements. Representative Moore, please state your purpose. Ladies and gentlemen, just procedurally, as a result of that vote, we will not be taking up the other bills on the calendar. We do believe there will be a Conference Report for the Coal Ash Bill. And by procedure, that bill, by House Procedure, House Rules, that bill would have to be held over a day. So we’re going to confer with the Minority Caucus and determine whether or not they would be willing, we would have a committee meeting in the morning, I expect. It would be the only other matter before we adjourn ?? So the question would be whether or not the minority would be amenable to having taking that up tomorrow, so that we can adjourn ??. Otherwise we would have to come back on Thursday for that purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Inquiry to the Chair. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman may state his inquiry. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Could we recess potentially? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes. [LAUGH] yes sir. So you are willing to take it up tomorrow? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes sir. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative ?? I think you just caucused. [LAUGHTER] [SPEAKER CHANGES] Well, I had to do it publicly. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Ladies and gentlemen, to that end, we will be adding Representative Moffit as a conferee and the Senate will be so notified. So we are hopeful that we have reached a point where we will be able to end on that positive note. I thank all the members for the debate on this last bill. I think that’s the way this process should work. In some ways I think it’s fitting the last measure we take up, one of the last measures we take up before we go home. Representative Tim Moore, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] A motion. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman may state his motion. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Speaker, I move that the House do now adjourn, to reconvene on Wednesday August 20, 2014 at 11AM, subject to ratification of bills, messages from the Senate, committee reports, conference reports, re-referral of bills and resolutions, appointment of conferees, introductions of bills and resolutions, committee appointments and modifications to the calendar. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Moore moves, seconded by Representative Dollar, that the House now adjourn, subject to the ratification of bills and resolutions, receipt of messages from the Senate, receipt of committee reports, conference reports, re-referral of bills and resolutions, appointment of conferees, introduction of bills and resolutions and modifications to the calendar, and committee appointments, to reconvene Wednesday August 20 at 11AM. All in favor say aye. All opposed, no. The ayes have it. The House stands adjourned. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Speaker. [SPEAKER CHANGES] House Democrat Caucus 10:00 in the morning. Regular meeting room. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Ray, if you want to restate the announcement, you’re welcome to do so. Any other members welcome too. It’s open mic. [LAUGHTER] Thank you Mr. Speaker. Members, House Democrats will caucus in the morning at 10:00, one hour before session. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Ladies and gentlemen of the House, as you all know there are times that our obligations here prevent us from being where we want to be, and that is a part of the obligation of the office. However today is a special day for one of our members and I think it should be acknowledged and I would like to congratulate Representative Becky Carney on her 25th wedding anniversary today. [APPLAUSE]
Representative Starnes, we are adjourned, the gentleman is welcome to open the mic. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The republicans will caucus at 9 am in the morning.