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House | April 10, 2013 | Committee Room | House Elections Part 2

Full MP3 Audio File

Due to the tough costume election suppose, or members take you for taking safety recall of judges will give them hope to avoid starch date is always like to stand up and warm welcome appreciation two are pages sure more with the state for a shrimp least we have four EE home immediately McKee Alexandra future and now are Maryland Mac Madison in five years old on this one brown telegram of college of Stalin’s year or two of the course for how certain are staffed wholesome and smart and we read to seals and bill Blass ladies and gentlemen the own agenda for today will be that will receive all the marks from mom some experts in the field calls voter ID a chair will intrude to Sam and allow them to speak one status complete we will then move into a two the first round home to his collection: hospital 589 was that cheers please too out welcome home has our first presented a home Rev. William walker (SPEAKER CHANGES ) Dr. or are using ground is a graduate of North Carolina is sinful on NT has the room master's degree are from duke and the historic 4° from true in the first be on key is home to most of us in this room, and the course is to get off the North Carolina one and the NAACP sure what you hear your four is a bit of revenge, candlelight vigil on that the first of all say thank you to remember the committee had gone! You or Newsday I come here representing the budget of 25 branches of the NAACP 147 members of the local racing utility corporation are also was national cheer the NAACP National Board representing our position unified position in which they are more than 25 under your skin rash, I was feeling of one of the members were worthy adversaries will see that all is said to me that he wished I wouldn't like a preacher to let me begin by just a moment. But with words from this century words spoken by one of our states will forgive to do with making republican and African American preaching me in the sun church we'll be the fusion walk in North Carolina between blacks and whites some sort of turn display on this would be unjust use troops leave discrimination in addition towards the pair for freedom and justice standing on the floor the constitutional convention 19th 186. (SPEAKER CHANGES) The Rev. Jacob vehicle and making the public and one that was on the head of the construction legislature who would later become president of the show college and grand national market turned a small nations would say these words, the conviction that has never been before then, would probably be sorted apartments image of conga people more, as the present conditions: soap on the destinies of all people are all turned to call the SFA moves are patients with the storm operation does serve always that we walked three. First a right to give evidence in court said that the right to be represented in the jury box and do the right to put bolts and about all these rights we walked these rights we will print 104 and these rights under guard we will ultimately pay them would knew the bible in dual use or Oakland as saying by 124 on the portable of the constitution that bible says the CIA 1012 goals of the people of their rights cleric in Quebec would have to wear them listed boldly in the right of North Carolina constitution that would not be lying with discrimination in the qualities of death to the likes of ??....

If oracle one of the constitution says all political college destiny and arrive from the people section five tournament since some of the staples her mom in each of the constitution and the problem in the United States and normal or more than that of the state can be a contradiction or subversion all of the United States constitution, can have no binding fourth section 10 (SPEAKER CHANGES) actions must be for a section that says all this political rights and privileges on not it can or modified by propagate no property qualification shelf in the right to vote for the right course of action 19 says no person shall be denied equal protection on the mall no show that a person be subjected to discrimination by the state recall race: the gym or national origin the 14th amendment of United's constitution says that person born on maximizing the United States and subject of Jewish history of our system of the United States and no state not show may or June 4 annual ritual abuse the privileges or immunities of citizens of United States more surely that's the proper some folks like to begin property without due process of mall nor deny any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of mole I think the mid-1872 years of home state, and state constitutions had says the right of citizens will the United States to a bowl shall not be in nine prevent one word to one lead which means nothing can be put into place nothing and begun to subvert also or spool of suppression a breach by the United States will buy any state or retirees call previous condition for two and that the Congress shall have power to enforce a 24 them in of the United States that's to be some regards as fast as to which any attempt to curtail talk a good marriage or criticism 24th amendment says the right of citizens of United States to Bolivia, open action for president by spread the format for president or senator representing, shall not be in nine and again that same word operates by the United States Oregon State bar reason or Ophelia to pay an eight, the poll tax alone, technician Michelle have the power to enforce this law two years after march on Washington in the middle of the second reconstruction face with these DNA with blood sacrifice of whites and blacks and Jews and Christians of so many problems are you going to be a system of Jim crow system couldn't put in place of the late 1800s to stop a first for reconstruction and where column for broad black and white fusion pollution this nation was fourth over against white supremacy are strong regressive fourth after voting rights act of 1965 voting rights act was impact would force the provision of the 15th amendment shall have no Federal State and local government may get anyway and anyway and PP or registered a bowl of cold and the Calder race war. This as packages to me and I was introduced in the senate sent below 156 to four, Mike Mansfield a democrat and every bit as some of the public or March 18, 1965 and 11 days after brutal beatings that whole world's sole or more acceptable race Sunday from availability and the region when the senate: revolt was 77 to 19, democrats 1924 and older action but among republicans in both are tied to 202 republicans will be the guest (SPEAKER CHANGES) like buying a 4.6% from a public bulletin for more than two that raise those days because we are committed to five principles which we would never turn, we'll raise goals in this particular house over and over and over again economic sustainability in the politic fighting for full employment giving way to a deviation of a spread on employment agreement, they're right affordable housing targeted, zones rainy, strong safety net for the pour faire policies with immigration infrastructure development fare tracker for a two we idea in the company's bond because we wanna see educational equality in showering again which are receiving, quality will fund a constitutional diverse public education healthcare fall by ensuring that 6 to 4 with a ??....

Read the medically unit providing for a problem that Anderson on injustices addressing the continuing argues the system and providing protection from all black brown and white off the voting rights by defending the right to vote and expanding voting rights for all standing against it is suppression tactics such as Bodog the streets of early voting three this goal unit THAT undermines the bylaws or reaches under Buzz Palmer's protection of the law what is our concern here is the preponderance of the policies you are promoting is eerily reminiscent of old South dollars for example in this Journal December not for your your tackle medically as average covers the 500,000 people some of the Republican some of the Democrat will check all your employment audit hurts 150,000 families on the number assembly Republican some rules for them $700 million to control your just thing for immigrants funding of public education setting up new forms of privatization charters and vouchers which would lead to mortgage segregation in your decision during holy week. File voting rights lost it all out war on voting and voter suppression tactics make it harder to bowl at the same time you're making it easier to get the and this combination is almost identical to the policy directions of the white suburban Stratford that was used by Richard Nixon developer Kevin Phillips in 1960 it looks like and feels like and sounds like the interposition and nullification policies of George Wallace with a 21st-century twist is this how the leadership of this drum assembly was to be no as being on the wrong side of history belongs out of DeMarcus long-sought prostitution offenses issue is not about polls was about Supercross polls is not about feelings don't that is not even a problem for all national TV speaker is is not about how you feel is not about all political majorities this issue is about the Constitution we've already fought these issues is already moved forward is for Russia wanted to do you not know or understand it when this Republican-led journalism listings to hold text discusses what are the courtesy of same-day voter registration eliminates undervoltage message and qualifications of burdens on incarcerate them all recently designed redistricting maps in any way up to the block suppress the rights to almost a is not always thinks the prostitution of the voting rights violation is it also reveals what one of your own Republican Gen. Colin Powell told Bush informed all fingerprints called to have become something of the general public jaw party pushed voting rights act of 1965 what we needed more Kamal is not old South legislative large wanted to do was to 21st-century regressive extremism we do not even attempt about how much of the steel suppress the vote cutting it short for the poorest among us instead what we should be told what we believe provide expert opinion is lost universal implies the 14th 15 the 24th amendment of the Constitution and voting rights maintain the best malls in the nation signature and attestation about a five you felt an inner child stop race-based gerrymandering redistricting was disenfranchised background article enforcement Bartolotta constitutional requirement that all elections before you improve early voting opening polled for more sadness under open countywide voting centers on election day was signed reregistration felony enfranchisement after people have paid that debt to society and release the help America vote act money to allow for smooth election make automatic registration of 18th birthday microgram to make election Day state holiday North Carolina has the best election laws in the country it protects access security the gentleman balance one of the chief features of our goal is Boda attestation would've thought with a telephone line and interesting when you talk about compromise in 2003 that was a compromise a compromise between commercial system I live in representative Paul stamp

a democrat and a republican in 2003 sponsored the bipartisan legislation with the provision for signature attestation. Says voters have to attest who they are by signing their name when they vote and there's a felony charge against them if they lie. This simple procedure works. It has been working for decades. It is not broken. Your own admittance and admittance of much research is that there is no voter fraud. We've had elections 237 years in North Carolina without a so called voter id. 237 years and only after the massive turnout of African Americans, Latinos, Progressive Whites, Students and the Elderly fundamentally changing the electorate in the south did the false witness and distortion about fraud begin and the cry for voter poll tax disguised as voter id. It's those of you pushing this bill are scared of true democracy. Scared your narrow agenda may not be successful if all of us vote. Let the people vote. You won with the people voting. Let the people vote. Since 2004, ?? North Carolina has had the greatest increase of voter participation in the nation. SO, to say that North Carolina should be like other states like Georgia or Indiana makes no sense. I went to Georgia last week, Augusta by the way. My grandmother's from Georgia and the citizens there contradicted the claims of the secretary of state Bryant Kent he claimed here last week. People in Georgia say photo id requirements have been hard on voters. They know the large number of people who cast provisional ballots, who never return with the proper id. If one person's vote is denied in this democracy, it is a violation of everything we hold true. The same is true in the Indiana case. The supreme court did not give broad approval for voter id laws. Indiana's voter id cost ten million dollars even though when they were pushing it, the legislation said it would only cost 700,000 and they did not present one case of voter fraud in that case that would have been prevented by voter id. When we go to court on this, the facts in North Carolina are much different than in Indiana. This new poll tax, disguised as voter id wants to require people without driver's license, mainly the poor, the elderly, disabled, to obtain. We believe it violates the principles of the 14th amendment, the 15th amendment, the 24th amendment. Our experts say, I'll say it again for emphasis, that's what an expert does. The experts say that it will cost 50-100% for transportation time, and by the way, you all didn't interrupt anybody else, so please respect me too. It will cost 50-100% for transportation time waiting in line and gathering documentation. That is a poll tax and it is wrong for these loyal citizens, who are disproportionate people of color, seniors and women who may have changed their name. People who may not have birth certificates from this state to be affected in this way. African Americans are 22% of all active voters, but they are 31% of the registered voters who do not have a North Carolina photo id. Seniors are 18% of active voters but 26% of those without a North Carolina photo id. Women are 54% of active voters, but 66% of those without North Carolina photo id and we do not fall for the we need voter id for prescription drugs. Id for drugs. To use a credit card to fly a plane. We know why we need it for sudafed because people use it to make meth and you're not going to make meth by voting. Secondly, we also know that these things are a privilege. Voting is a constitutional right protected by more constitutional amendments than any other rights we have as Americans. We, as a nation, don't provide constitutional rights based on false analysis, and polls or popular thinking. Constitutional rights are given to keep the majority from exercising tyranny over the minority and so, we come here today to say that when we talk about voter suppression and voter id, we are leading this state down a dangerous path. We have already fought these battles. What we should be focused on is economic sustainability, poverty, jobs, education equality for all, healthcare for all, dealing with the proven disparities in our criminal justice system and protecting and expanding the voting rights of all people. This, and only this, should be the goal of any legislative body and anything else is an affront to every claim of justice we hold dear and we will fight--

Any attempt to undermine the rights ordained by God and guaranteed in our Constitution. I thank you for this respectful time, and pray God speed upon you on your deliberation. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank You sir, I’m glad that you could be here with us today. Ladies and Gentleman, our next presenter is Mr. Jerry [Bonnet]. Mr. [Bonnet] is the Chief Legal Council and the Co- Director of Elections for the state of Indiana, he is a licensed attorney and has degrees from Indiana University, the University of Tennessee and the University of New Orleans. So, the Chair has asked him to come today and speak about his experience photo IDs’ and Mr. Bonnet is here. Sir we’re glad you’re here, you have the floor. Welcome the House Committee on elections. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Chairman Lewis and Chairman Moore. I’m humbled to follow such an eloquent speaker and I apologize, I’m actually the 3rd stringer, Indiana Secretary Connie Lawson would have liked to of been here. She was a Senator before she became Secretary of State and she was Chairman of our State Elections Committee in 2005 when they were deliberating the voter ID laws that Indiana passed back then. Also, the Director of our Election Division couldn’t be here, who is more knowledgeable than I am. We have a legislative session, they have Election Committee hearings today and he needs to attend those. I know you have been deliberating this a good while so I’m not going to make a long presentation because I’m fearful that I’d probably be telling you things that you may have already heard or may have already discussed, so I’ll try to leave time for questions. I am from Indiana, but after law school in Tennessee I accidentally ended up in New Orleans and I practiced law for 18 years in Louisiana and then by accident after Hurricane Katrina I returned to Indiana because it was my home in the fall of 2005 and I think they felt sorry for me so they gave me a little job in state government. The job I had involved this voter ID law that had just been passed. I wasn’t in Indiana during the deliberations of it, but I was a given a charge, and it’s a charge I have to this day, by the Secretary of State of Indiana Election Commission which was to find out if there is anyone in the state that can’t vote because of this law. Find out why and report back to officials about it, and that’s what I’ve done in every one of the 12 elections that we’ve had since the law was passed. Studied the provisional balloting very carefully, go out and interview people to find out what are the facts behind provisional ballots that aren’t certified. To spite projections and studies that prognosticated many individuals not being able to vote, wide spread voter [disinfrangement], different types of doom & gloom. That isn’t what happened, when we had the first election 2006, the first sate wide election, I had the state helicopter and state airplane on stand by to go anywhere in the state in a matter of almost minutes to find out if there were going to large number of people being turned away from polls and it didn’t happen. In addition to being an attorney, which has taught me to take a critical view of writings and of studies, I spent 2 years working on

my Pd.D. in organizational leadership where I also studied very carefully statistical analysis and academia and academic papers and the difference between peer-reviewed research and research that is largely based on opinion and I've come to have a pretty dim view of a lot of research that makes suggestions and inferences about the disfranchising of ID laws. I agree very much with the Representative about citizens' rights, but Indiana had a concern about citizens' rights to competence in the outcome of election, the NVRA had made it easy to create an environment for our voter list to become oversubscribed. It's easier to get on and to be subscribed multiple times through motor voter, people move, people pursue their education, it's relatively difficult and there's a challenging administrative process to get peoples' names off of those voting lists. When surveyed, individuals expressed concern, and even belief that, not all elections were completely fair, particularly in certain counties that have had decades and generations' old stigmas for not having complete fairness at the precinct level, the ward level, and the county level. So, the ID laws, I think very much we are addressing a competence issue. People's beliefs, I believe, need to be respected, and surveys have shown that in Hoosiers ?? Indiana, respect the law, appreciate the ID law, it's been called the strictest in the nation. The candidates for secretary of state in the last two races, neither the democrat or republican candidates campaigned on changing or overturning the law, our candidates for governor, democrat or republican also didn't campaign on trying to overturn turn the law. There's been very little, almost no modification to the law since 2005. What has changed since 2005 has been administrative rules. The position that the state has taken is that if there is anyone who that can't vote either with an ID or through one of the alternative methods, it's the acquisition of the ID or one of the alternative methods that need to be reviewed, not the requirement. Indiana has made rules, which again you may have discussed, about conforming names, there's 13 ways that a name could be expressed on an ID that could be different from the name on the poll list, and if there's a difference the person only needs to write in the name they're using and sing it on the poll list and that would be accepted. Addresses are not required to match on an ID from the poll list, it's recognized that people move. That's a rule, administrative rule, not in the statute. State university, initially not accepted because they didn't have an expiration date, and some universities it would not fit within their procedures and policies to put an expiration date on their university ID, but arrangements have been made for some of our state universities to supply a list of expiration dates prior to the election so that they can be verified. So through that way, we've been able to accept university IDs, so long as the person at the poll can verify that.

The and Indiana has been challenged by the Justice Department and him and by seven new out-of-state voter rights groups over the list maintenance is either culpable as maintenance or purging of polls SSS the politically incorrect word that and at the county level where the goal is to maintain there is there is a diversion into removing people you removing a name for the list and the secretary stayed in election commission that they really challenge to pursue counties from maintain that list so and the fact that those lesser known to be in inflated and is what know causes the release of sensitive to the idea of having a window of a certain final check for the in-person voting on and ask the why we have that out I haven't looked at North Carolina's election is raising very carefully in a public lobby and how remind you and Indiana the secretary state which is the chief elections officer is is is very weak when it comes to election authority election administration in Indiana is this strictly bipartisan from the Indiana election commission which has a number of Democrats and Republicans to the election division and which also a weekly column on those are because there is in tools in the present Democrat Republican dinner every position same way the county level, county election boards and out on our polls on election and represents only that is because I'm if there were laws that were unfair and network disenfranchising speaking as a civil servant and speaking on behalf of of the individuals over 15,000 volunteers on election day they just wouldn't have it there would be our selection administration designed so that if if the Democrat Republican don't agree then things stop until they do disagree that that happens in our election commission they just definitely remake they don't meet Pinot Gris and how election he conducted them available to election health sitdown that hasn't happened and I have surveyed personally at the county level throughout her 19 counties at the precinct and were level talk to Chairman Flickr party chairman and were captains and an acid wife widely are either other numbers of voters in your precinct in your neighborhood you are not loading and the answer is there not a they don't out if if they were there were so we have tried at all times to address any case of any individual that could be found who can't vote on our VMD has a office without setup that works with individuals who are challenged because of their documentation may be because it hasn't cultural preferences circumstances to to make sure that they they have an ID and asked not just voting as stats for all types of civic engagement and certainly since his 2011 the perspective has is changed on the issue of what the meaning and that the use of an IV is south of sunrise I think Indiana election officials and civil servants and citizens of all election process has had a good dinner of a positive spirit about the voter ID law was to the work to assure confidence in elections and to resolve any issues that were that were noted out secondly I was involved with the courts with the US Green court in state Supreme Court review of the law

You may have discussed that, but there are two issues in constitutional law. There's the facial view, which is the law on its face, and the court will say, "Well, given what this law reads word-for-word, is there a way that it can be constitutionally applied or is there no way that it can be constitutional?" And then there's the as-applied issues. I think the courts were very uniform in that on its face, this law, ID laws can be applied fairly and constitutionally, and the courts view them with little difference from whether people have travel to the precinct, how many precincts there are, whether they register, when they have to register, different requirements. On the other side, though, as applied, the courts were not in complete agreement. Some of the sentences (??) were pretty harsh, but the plaintiffs, in those cases, were not able to identify the individuals who were harmed. There were projections, theories, but the actual individuals couldn't be. I think you'd agree any law could be applied in a way that was unfair and unconstitutional. I think Indiana has tried very hard to apply the law in a way that is fair and to be open to challenges and to address those. We wouldn't be supporting it administering laws if they had this unfair basis. And finally, I'll mention it again, the voter list maintenance issue is a real challenge to confidence (??) and the amount of money that we believe that we would have to spend would be in the tens of millions too, and the procedures would be invasive, involving investigations to scrupulously make sure that every voter became registered and didn't get removed from a list because they'd moved or something. To do that maintenance is not simple, not inexpensive, and not un-invasive procedure. We had one case of vote fraud from the primary election where an individual had moved from Wisconsin and he voted absentee in Wisconsin and voted in Indiana where he'd registered when he got his ID. When he got his driver's license he was registered to vote. And that's sort of an example where the system created the opportunity for- I've met with the individual, it's been discussed with the ?? department, and the individual was sort of put in that circumstance, we don't believe he was devious, we don't think he had the ability to try and change the outcome of the presidential election, but he had that opportunity and he took advantage of it. So thank you very much for allowing me to come and hopefully I'll try as best I can to answer questions you might have. Yes? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Ross, please state your purpose. The lady is recognized to ask an inquiry of the speaker. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for coming to visit. I know one of your former Secretaries of State from when the voter ID law went into effect and he and I did a leadership program together, and so. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Secretary ?? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yeah. I just had a question about obtaining the ID. Is it free in Indiana? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Indiana provides a free ID for any individual over the age of sixteen who does not have or is not applying for some type of voter vehicle-related license. In 2005, it's by regulation-

through the DMV that it was endorsed by Gov. Daniels at the time. Gov. Daniels has a reputation as being a spendthrift, and they allocated $2 million during the first year, but I want to mention that in 2005, Indiana also was an early adopter of the real ID, the federal real ID standard, which is a high standard for all state-issued IDs requires this birth certificate, social security number, proof of citizenship, results in a holographic ID that is registered with federal agencies. Some states have not adopted it, but it was in that context also as well as the voter ID that Indiana persued the free ID law because they recognized an individuals, for all the purpose would need an ID, would be getting a real ID from Indiana. And so it was not just about the photo ID. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Chairman, may I follow up? [SPEAKER CHANGES] You may. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Chairman, I have 2 or 3 questions. Is that alright if I- [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes ma'am. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you very much. So I just want to be 100% clear: Unless you're trying to get a drivers license or something other, if you just want a photo ID in Indiana including with all the bells and whistles of being a real ID, it's free? Is that correct? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] My next question goes to you had said that the IDs that you accept don't have to- they could have an incorrect address on it or not the person's current address because you're really just trying to determine that person is whom they purport to be. Is that my understanding of what ?? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes, it's been described as having to do with matching the face based to the face much as people have said, you know, traditionally you match your signature. Signature matching was the way traditionally. It's recognized that you are allowed to, even if you move within 30 days of the election, it's a federal election and you haven't changed you county or congressional district, you're free to vote. In a presidential election, you're free to vote anywhere as long as you're in the United States. So yes, the address is not a disqualifier for the ID being accepted. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chairman. But you said if the ID had expired, say a student ID, you wouldn't accept that and so I'm trying to understand whether- why an expired ID would not qualify if all it's about is figuring out that you're matching the face to the face? [SPEAKER CHANGES] I'm not sure the why part of it, the ID expiration cannot- an ID can be expired, the limit- outer limit- is the last general election, so that's generally going to be going back a little bit less than 2 years. So if it was a good ID for the last general election, even if it expired immediately thereafter, it would be good for the next primary and the next general election. And I don't know what the- why that particular time period was set. I recognize that Michigan has a different scheme on that. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Just one more question and then I had a comment. When people go to vote in Indiana, are they asked to state what their address is? [SPEAKER CHANGES] They are asked to verify in signing their poll book that that's their address and then they are able to, if their address has changed, write in the poll book, initial it with the new address, and that would initiate a change in registration prior to the next election. [SPEAKER CHANGES] But they don't, They don't have to say what their address is before the poll book, before they sign the poll book. So in North Carolina, we- the laws that you're supposed to say "What is your address?", and then the person has to say what their address is so that you make sure that they're voting in the right place. [SPEAKER CHANGES] That's not required if you are registered, you know if you're in the poll book and you're registered,

[??] may vote, although you are certainly under an obligation not to vote if you are not in fact a resident. There are laws about how long after a person is moved can returned to that poll. In fact, the former Secretary of State Charlie White who was convicted of vote fraud and removed from office, had voted in the precinct and it was shown in a county court that he had moved from that place to be with his Fiancée and his step children, same county, same town, same state, but it was some bitter medicine that was dealt out. What went around came around, in that case. That was the instance there, he did vote and it was shown that he had not lived in that precinct for 30 days before he voted. [SPEAKER CHANGES].Representative Ross, if you will, the chair is going to recognize Representative Avila for an inquiry and then the chair is going to invite both of our previous speakers if they can to remain after we conclude to address other inquiries. Representative Avila. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chairman. This is a question I’ve been wanting to ask for quite some time and I feel like your at a level of expertise that you can give the answer to it and that is; we keep making the statement there is no voter fraud because the people voting is someone else. If we’re not asking to see their identification, how do we know? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Well, that is a good question. That is the belief the and It is pervasive, I mentioned in particular counties, in particular towns and particular areas of town, there is this urban myth, that at a poll maybe when no one is watching that a vote or votes will be recorded in the name of people who aren’t there. It didn’t lend itself to law enforcement, even though there are studies that say there has not been enforcement of in person fraud, were questionable and challenged because it’s hard to get county level law enforcement records, they are not in the kind of date bases that you have for other law enforcement activities. Which, is a long way of saying I don’t know. I think that is a question that the ID requirement attempts to address, one of the issues it attempts to address. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Director thank you so very much for your time today, please feel free to stay, if your time permits. I’m sure some the members would like to ask you further inquiries. The chair did announce that we were going to begin discussion on House Bill 589 today and that is what we’re going to do. Yes Sir. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Chairman. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Blust state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Inquiry of the chair. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Gentleman is recognized. [SPEAKER CHANGES] And staff for some information that maybe helpful going forward. I’ve heard speakers and I see it in Bills sometimes, it’s under Penalty of Perjury, like that is this big weapon that we’ve got that’s going to stop anything. Can we get some figures, I think I read recently that perjury cases are just incredibly rare, I mean in any setting. Can we get some information on how often there are, how many people have been convicted or charged with perjury? Because, I’m worried that we’re trying to use something that really has become almost non-existing anymore and we may need different way to put some teeth into the law. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes sir. Thank you Representative Blust, the staff is directed to provide

to Representative Blust and all the members of the Committee on the elections. At this time, move on to House Bill 589. The Chair will recognize Representatives Warren, Murry, Moore, and Samuelson to present the bill in the time that we have, and as was announced earlier, we will not vote on this bill in any way today, and this bill will be back on next week's Committee ??. Representative Warren, you have the floor. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. Mr. Chair? [SPEAKER CHANGES]. State your purpose, Representative. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. Inquiry of the Chair. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. The gentleman may state his inquiry. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. This is simply for discussion today, I heard you say that they're, the three presenters are just going to discuss and then we're going to adjourn and go to our 2:30 meeting, is that correct? [SPEAKER CHANGES]. Yes, sir. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. OK. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. Representative Warren, you have the floor. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Voter Information Verification Act, or VIVA, is the result of many months of research and of listening to the people of North Carolina. More than 65 percent of whom have voiced a strong desire for improving the security of the voting process. And by giving careful and thoughtful consideration to the concerns expressed by those opposed to securing the vote. VIVA provides for increased participation of eligible voters through an aggressive bipartisan program of voter education and voter registration initiatives at the grassroots level across the state over a two year period. VIVA aggressively addresses allegations of voter suppression and dispels predictions of disenfranchisement. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. Excuse me, Mr. Chair? ...conversations, I'm trying to hear. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. The Chair thinks the lady of the Committee will please come to order. Representative Warren has the floor, please give the gentleman your respect. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. I will try to command more attention, sir. VIVA enhances integrity in the balloting process in a comprehensive and considerate fashion by making reasonable improvements to in-person, provisional, and absentee balloting. We believe that just as if one person is denied a vote is intolerable, so is one person's vote being cancelled out by a fraudulent vote intolerable. Representatives Murry, Samuelson, and I will go over the bill for you now. Representative Murry? [SPEAKER CHANGES]. Thank you, Representative Warren. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, members of the Committee. I'm going to describe Section 4, which deals directly with the photo identification piece of the legislation. And, also go through Section 5 and... I'll just go through, likely the absentee provisions as well, so... If you'll look at Section 4, we have a list of the identification, the types of photo identification that will be available to count in order to be able to vote in North Carolina. There are multiple forms of identification, all of which are issued by a state, including the state of North Carolina, but any state ID would be available. So if you moved here from another state and had a valid driver's license from another state, that would be able to be used as photo identification as well. The photo identification, in order to be valid, has to have either an expiration date or a date of issuance, and for it to be valid it has to be, it can't be expired more than 10 years on either of those dates, whichever is later. For individuals that have disabilities as defined under Federal law or are over the age of 70, in particular to the age of 70, if the ID was valid on their 70th birthday it will be valid from then forward. So it's kind of an extended expiration date for senior citizens or... So that's, you can see the list of ID's. They are all government issued photo ID's, state institutions, or universities, if it's under part of the university systems state of North Carolina, that is valid under this legislation as well. The main theme is a government issued photo ID will be required to vote under this legislation. We do have exceptions as well for people who have a religious objection to have their photograph taken that is consistent with most photo voter ID legislation that you see around the country. From a procedural perspective, when you go to vote

you will have to do a signature attestation as well as present your photo ID, so this just adds the photo ID presentation to the current procedure. That's in section 6. If you do not have a photo ID, you will be allowed to cast a provisional ballot. That is section 7. And section 8 continues the discussion about how the provisional ballot is required if you don't have a photo ID. Section 9 deals with counting and provisional ballots, and after the-before the canvas, a voter has to come back to the board of elections with a photo ID in order for the vote to be counted. If you continue the implementation date, we're going to have kind of a soft launch, and it will be the ultimate requirement would begin on Jan. 1st, 2016, so we will begin asking voters whether they need a photo ID in 2014. I believe that's correct. Absentee ballot section is ??- [SPEAKER CHANGES] Excuse me just a minute, Rep. Murry, I think Rep. Richardson has had an inquiry and I wanted to ask you to stop before you moved on. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Indeed. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr Chairman. Yes, I do have an inquiry about the institutions that can provide voter ID. I notice you have the University system and the community college, but what about our private colleges and universities? [SPEAKER CHANGES] We allow for state issued photo IDs to be counted in the voter ID law, so private institutions are not state institutions and so we would not allow that in this legislation. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Can I follow up? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes, one follow up. [SPEAKER CHANGES] So if they're those institutions, then they would have to get a special ID? [SPEAKER CHANGES] They would need a government issued photo ID like a driver's license. or a non-operator's card from the DMV. We do have provisions in the legislation about absentee ballots, and that is in section 13. Section 13 begins, you have to have 2 witnesses and we are also having- we also are establishing a request form instead of a hand written process that we have now, a state-based, a state form that you can fill out to get a absentee ballot and then have the 2 signatures for return on the envelope. Let's see here. That the method for requesting absentee ballots is in section 13c, so that all the sections of section 13 deal with absentee ballots and voting. Section 14 is Rep. Murry's, Rep. Warren is going to discuss about the methodologies of promoting this new program, but I would say the goal of this legislation is to make sure that the person that is presenting themselves to vote is the person who they say they are. That's the goal of the legislation, it's very very simple and if one person's vote is stolen it's a violation of all the rights that we hold dear. [SPEAKER CHANGES] You have the floor ma'am. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, and I'll be brief since you all want time to discuss. I'm just gonna cover the state issured cards. If a voter does not have the voter identification, we've got a long list and Rep. Richardson this would include as well if they go to a private college and they don't have any of the other forms, then they may get a non operator ID from the DMV. The fee for that card will be waived for those who cannot afford them as well as fees for any documents like birth certificates and such that have to be retrieved from any state agency that are necessary to get the card. One of the plusses that we want you to remember is that even though someone may get that non-operator ID card from DMV, it will be good for other purposes for which they may need an ID. So it kind of gets a dual purpose of anyone in this society who does not have a photo ID probably is impaired in some way from other activities, even things like getting certain pharmaceuticals. So this would enable them, they then have a card that yes its good to tell who they are when they go vote, but that they can also use for other things. And I didn't mean physically impaired, I just mean you're not able to do certain things. To get a card without cost an individual, under penalty of perjury, acknowledge that they do not have the funds to pay for that card. And we're trying to make that flexible as possible, but just to recognize that we're trying to provide these for people who can't provide them for themselves. But it's not a hard

test to pass and so that's basically it on how you would get a non - If you need a non operator ID card. Also, the program that representative Warren will cover in a minute, part of the whole gist of this will be there will be running at the same time a voter outreach program to reach out to the people who indicated that they cannot, that they do not have a card and they want help getting one. So, we're trying to make it as easy as possible to help those people get the cards they need. [speaker changes] In this bill, we create a program called VIVA or Voter Information Verification Agency. This is a board that will be created, comprised of three to five members at the state level forming an advisory board. They will have, beneath them, fourteen employees, one state level employee to watch over the program throughout the state and then thirteen field operatives to work with the county parties in a bipartisan effort and a volunteer network to create a program of voter education and voter registration. To involve more of our folks in the electoral process. Some of the responsibilities that the agency and the field operatives will be responsible for on page one of your bill lines 19 - over to page 2, line 5. I'll let you read through those rather than taking up a lot of time reading to you. The program will start in January of 2014 and because the hardfast voter photo id requirement doesn't start until January 1, 2016, we are phasing this in over a generous two year period of time to help people secure getting a photo id and there' s more than eleven different types at this time acceptable forms of photo id. In addition to this, this bill directs the state board of election to begin the study going digital and by that I mean creating a statewide digital photo database where we can migrate folks who find it easier or just as part of the system to create a photo database where the system for voting could be so simple that you go up to your poll, identify yourself, they confirm your address, type in your name and your picture pops up. This program that we're looking at and considering would have to have the latest state of the art technology and software and things that incorporate facial software. There's a couple exciting parts of the program that look beyond just requiring a photo id but looking at improving the system going forward and keeping in touch and in pace with the technological advances that we are experiencing. [speaker changes] And then in terms of next steps of course, today, there is the public hearing afterward now that we've got the bill out for everybody to look at. We are receiving suggestions, ideas, all kinds of things so be on the lookout in case a PCS comes out before your next committee hearing next week. We're, of course, available to answer any questions. Mr. Chairman, I believe you've got it scheduled next week for a vote. Is that correct? [speaker changes] That is the intent of the chair. [speaker changes] if you have questions that come up here or afterward, do let us know. We are open to tweaks. I've never seen a bill quite like this one where there were so many moving pieces and we were trying to make sure that they all line up and conform as they're supposed to. So, we're very open if someone catches something that we've missed by any chance. Thank you. [speaker changes] The chair saw Representative Ross' hand, Representative Avila's hand and Representative Starnes' hand. That will probably exhaust the time that we have today. The chair will assume the lady wishes to pose an inquiry and do so at this time. [speaker changes] Thank you Mr. Chairman and this time it's only one. Will we have a fiscal note by next week? [speaker changes] Thank you Representative Ross. We are still waiting for additional data from the state board of elections to determine the disconnect between the DMV records and the state board of elections since the last analysis, two ?? thousand motors have been removed from the road since the last analysis by the state board of elections. We're trying to get that and I expect fiscal note and a serial referral to appropriations ??, but I think [speaker changes] One follow up, Representative Ross. [speaker changes] In that fiscal note, it would be good to know how much it's gonna cost for this facial recognition technology and these employees. It's both providing the ID and setting up the bureaucracy. [speaker changes] Certainly. A significant portion of the database is going to be up to the board of elections to do an RFP. You don't want to do that in this legislation. We're delegating a significant amount to the state board of elections as well.

representative ted avail you are recognized for an inquire thank you Mr. chairmen on page 10 of the bill in the absentee ballot we changed back to two people its been two for years and years and we had people who had issues with two and Ive actually gotten some emails why are we thinking two is going to work is that necessary. that is also some of the ones we have gotten some messages on the idea of having two have had some complaints where one person would go and get lots of people to sign up but if you had two if your not having them have to produce a photo on the by having two you kinda offset the fact that others have to have an id one quick follow up. your recognized . are we going to be using this requirement up through the local elections as well all through threw the time we go forward. yes. representative stores your recognized for and inquire. Thank you my question is on page six section twelve b. registered deeds have some concerns of the free verse certificate of course we know required deeds certificates are required basically to be self sustained and we operate on the pee-sly generate is there registered deeds that will eat this cost or will there be a prevision from the state to reimburse them for the ten dollars per birth certificate. the plan was to reimburse the offices the registers offices for the for intent that's to be sure that anyone with a financial hardship will have a photo verifier to have a photo id and that's one of the pieces of documentation that DMV requires for a non operating licensee or, i think the intent is to is a reimburse that we would not bury registered offices to bury this burden financially thank you. i think they will feel better if there was some language in effect. the other inquire they had was in other words someone could come in with a birth certificate for a pass port and say well i want to get it for a low id that's confidential hardship there suggestion was that you have them go to the board of elections to have them document and have them say i need this re birth certificate for voting purposes and that would only be for voting purposes thank thank you for that comment. ladies and gentlemen until 4 a clock when this committee reconvenes for additional input and the public hearing we stand in recess.