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Senate | May 1, 2013 | Committee Room | Finance

Full MP3 Audio File

Him him and you and now you're dating is a low welcome webpages today and then Johnson is it within a matter of what offered was sponsored by Senator Nesbitt, welcome and hope you enjoy your week in the Senate. I would like thank. I started arm shaft. There is standing by Ernie Cheryl Anderson matters Donna Blake and Ken Lewis and welcome. We have two bills to be heard today. The first one is the one to be presented by Senator Brown said no. Fifty eight. Increase funding for graduate and I believe we have a PCS do I have a motion to PCS. Some of the buzzer to block all in favor say I motion passes the third round you, [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mister Chairman, I advise really thought about this one a but I think I try to take a lot input from a lot of people to continue to work on this bill and I think we got the bill hugged as good as I can do nothing. We have to an obvious stuff, and I can go back over why we need to bail law and might want me to do that I think I think I'm explained that a couple times mouse. I don't know that I need to go through that whole process, but anyway I will tell you what the changes in the BCS. Those in the and and then we'll talk about decision was what the BCS will do is if it's a twenty five foot boat or lasts will raise the registration fee from fifteen to twenty five dollars thirty IgG blocking insights on. I got him not to do this. Twenty six. They are above the raise at the fifteenth fifty dollars. It also takes some a little over two million dollars onto the highway fund and this would generate a little bit over six million that we were trying to generate as we work through this bill also the night is coming out a highway fund that is one sixty one percent and that really tries to recruit some of the dollars that are spent the orgasm, but it's at the pump and recapture some of that those dollars are actually more, but this does recapture some of it. The piece that out on the titling phase it in our increase on the funny thing is, is still in the bill and also the one-to-one match the locals have to come up with is still in the veil. So having a sacred phase because I hated by lives on the coast knows that their communities are going to have to match this saw about four dollars police dollars, down, I think that it's very much to what the bill does now, Jeff, maybe anything, it just my one had anything that I got covered to the recovery of the deep are nevertheless I do have a man lies in for affected Mister yesterday, members of copy limit, they should click over to discuss limits. It just changes the effective date tool on the October one of two thousand thirteen. It just gives the wildlife will work on it ready for the changes in discussions on even a commotion of utilizing perspective. Remember his accept the moment, but him, I think that in them, and all the things that I will remember the passes and will be enrolled with little thought in our discussion on the bill is the Senator, I am. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I guess discusses first to begin with those on, I'd probably was part of the amendment as much as anything but my concern is that you're putting off the delay in the day sometime in the future. Now it's the October pilots coming in while a three-year permit under the current thirty is still an option and still out there and college bloopers, fiscal note in the us idols of Maine. I don't know that were accounting for the fact or I think my vote. It will have a lot fewer permits sold in the next three years goes in the next three months ago. So a lot of three-year permits

The play that made this is a poll for the body else but this road Murray of education which could affect immediately from that I think got Chris Dillow may be your krystle we're talking as though the am just a war two places list while a Christian $50.00 when it may take you say about my interest and Alexei ways off well as resource commission are a NAZI Group has access to move the effective date October 1 allow all but they're 2000 paid agents on the film some prep, as well as to the changes in our database that state law says that you can't renew your vessel within 60 days of its expiration said about bill rush big bend and people do in three years unless they care about to expire so that's covered just as I would give the tear into the fourth in 30 days of 60 days , all on a co-manager says, is from today's school and the highway funds this ground transportation safety and 10 again this is (SPEAKER CHANGES) Jeffrey some of dollars are spent on medical before but snail but it is a catcher all owned by the stature will be sublet the ball as well above the five questions. 99 should look of the form that can remember what we ended up with, maybe this is for stem from commercial fishermen nine, and this pledge to 12 lead they will have to play the same things as well as guess is turning to Intel's how many registered boats on the coast (SPEAKER CHANGES) the benefit from this I'm not sure what you may not benefit from it, or be using these have a local waters would your regular basis lawsuit upholds layout people from a letter that table from be used as a lots are again five if you'd like to come down the 4th of July you can pretty much walk across the whale boats if you'd like to sign both for being there and if Ramallah the seven 97 revenue for the scope of surgical of a locomotive are available as some PCs are taking to the cooking from the discussion five now we have a motion for a lay-up favorable of report on the PCs unfavorable as Amanda and favorable to do with all those who should replace a non oppose no 57 or should it take you a next no is a senate bill 365 and affordable and reliable energy AG presented by a server brought his PCs under the motions PCs satellites are those in favor of giving them the PCs a motion for use at those motion goods to Iraq as chairman of the committee until you find a lot of interesting here they are the people for the formal Abel energy Ackley value of the original bill which was somehow submission companion bill this is the change should most of the proposed base of two until we have 1/4 for a sample is trying to sing them via bill number 365 which is every bit the year which we're looking affordable and reliable something that you count each and every day today simply want this bill will they be kicks the reps requirement which is renewable energy portfolio standards and to come from a 3% to 2023 and sell 2023 will be in repeal the reps implies a costly, for the reps requirement to be separately stated on customer bills and identified by the special surcharge for the energy and allow selective suppliers to recover all calls to 30 compliance with the Reds were bets requirements including them for that report included are no provision for feel about this act either for senate bill three there was some great things that do some things that were promised within six years in looking at where we are right now and what thing for promising leads to say what we hold with what we've got right now with 2323 was brought up as 85 and eight or by that kind ??.......

The technology that was promised and should be cheaper than was available right now if that's the case then the babies on said date should not matter because that energy should be cheaper, but were looking at North Carolina competition is interesting. This committee; who talk about what's happening is hard in China, they hurriedly passed Senate Bill three. How would put a burden on companies and people in North Carolina right before a crisis that we had in our economy, economic development, followed low-cost energy outset as the Ford eighteen fifteen. The first meal in North Carolina was in Lincoln County of pushing and his him all Warwick, which are my ancestors built in North Carolina because of cheap energy they need is to say we would have higher energy cost in North Carolina desktop to get jobs going because it is an undue burden on companies are companies are suffering our people are suffering in North Carolina in areas where we have double-digit employment. We have higher energy calls. Now we want a stuffed country. We got three percent if you're eager to be fearless, look what we have here and allow for that and allow for development and wealth least technologies to come true. As promised, we hope that works with the meantime, we have people that are looking for jobs in a far mail truck companies don't have the energy reliable low cost is only tougher and tougher for people to be higher is something we need. We need to put this in was built three went through the roof. A lot of people interested a lot of promises made some other thinkers among the morning to look at where we are right now and where we want to go as a state to create jobs, North Carolina jobs, followed low-cost energy. If you look at the competition submission before in China of what they're doing. That's what competition, not across the border, not across the South Carolina Junior, KSC, our competition of worldwide if we don't have low-cost energy. We are losing effort. Competition seventy different ways and if we put a mandate on our companies and our people to pay higher calls these products are imported from China is just that is further behind this again. This realist is different from the one of Stefan Thurlow, the different one. It was passing through health of the nation before I would do we just keep what we have right now and these technologies were developed and progressed the way they were promised in the sunset date in the cattle should not matter because the generation supply companies. Without these companies missed German Beowulf was observed of members of the committee Third World or the Senate of Morocco most was good to rather extensive e-mail from the port industry, and since it's such a major industry in the state. [SPEAKER CHANGES] It's already providing thousands of jobs. They expressed concern that they participated in this deal. They spent thousands, millions of dollars to implement waste-to-energy lagoons and as you know, the practices of sale. All of these different things to investors and they express great him him him him these things, and consequently there at a disadvantage. How do you respond to that concern that we would repeal this. Now that we've gotten them bought into it. Certainly I would look at what you are here. While Wallace with us in adultery, and how much pressure was put on that culture community to support the steel radial pressure put on qualitative final one for radio special magnate community to get along this and look at the technologies that rent out there to try and put this out to what great energy from looking at it and within the cost efficiencies of putting this through and were looking at the requirements of twenty twenty three, of hoping that this technology will be developing unevenness overnight. This is putting a capital we have now and looking at my twenty twenty three, which is ten years away with the development on it and hopefully by that time the

Will take to take care of this as well. Love you, [SPEAKER CHANGES] but from what I gather the community and especially video for community has takes position that is not just revealing Brady revealing over time, since the same kind of negative message to their investors, and it adversely affects their operations out there was a lot of pressure put on them, but they comply and they invested in these lagoons and other of a waste something. How do you address that concern that they have been and how you convince them that you don't destroy thousands of jobs that they've created and you impair their capital because they've invested in these alternative sources was black like you are a great gotten together what intense pressure on their culture, community, for the passage of Senate Bill three operation ankles. We know there was a lot of pressure put on film. Now that thousand of the Java think I have to do with their first and foremost, the blogger and business awareness that culture on energy production effort of thousands of jobs, our current energy production. This usually enough production afford rather than energy production on-site witnesses that were working on this bill. Ms. Mills went through when looking at those that is this a work in progress of how to get through to make sure that we have these things to go through another notice as chair of bag and looking at the summary chooses to make sure that our our number one industry Norcal, I saw heard anyway. I would say some the things that if you look at what their goals. Forrester wave production. I think when it comes to their farm operation. I think they much rather have natural gas related operation to cut the prices and radio forest area learning more cognitive work through this, but make sure the technology is there that the automatic increases that were inserted three. Will you keep what we have hopefully, but that the energies that were promised to us. I would live up to their promises, and he would become the energies of love it with energy force that the companies would rather go to other cost efficiency [SPEAKER CHANGES] . Anyone of anything else I deserved and searched her signature and a quick question for utilities commission and the comment that is if there's a representative from utilities commission. I would like to know my missing was that the lighter for root of G is actually going down for the largest utility in the state this year and I just want to get confirmation of that adventure. I'm understanding it correct that you don't like for him was just terrific. You can verify yourself, please answer the question. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thanks. Dan Conrado, a staff attorney with the North Carolina utilities commission out into your question is that is correct in the for most retail class for most customer classes on Dick's current reps writer that was approved for two thousand twelve. They run on September to August time frame was twenty one set and to residential customers per month three dollars and eighteen cents for commercial customers and nineteen dollars and sixty one cents for industrial customers in two thousand thirteen. They proposed their new rep letter that is not yet been approved, but their proposed writer would be actually a one cent credit on our residential customers accounts three dollars and thirty eight cents to customer commercial accounts and twelve dollars and eighty three cents on industrial city industrial will go down from nineteen to twelve. The commercial is please say that on three dollars nineteen cents at the thirty eight cents and residential gun from twenty one cents to a one cent credit if their proposed rider was approved for the twenty thirteen time frame from September to August is a regular follow-up. Yes thank you Ms. and so not only on the short term basis as a rates actually decreasing. Even with the rest under existence, but is an analysis done by RTI will camp brought, which shows that over the life of this program. Twenty years) is actually going to encourage and incur a hundred and seventy three million dollars savings in the savings columns is from two ways. One is the more these technologies are deployed to lower they can't cost on a unit basis but to it increases the recitation of the energy supply is that you not entirely dependent on other sources which

I will fluctuate and so back I agree with you, low-cost energy is the way to go low-cost energy is achieved through the renewable energy portfolio standard, the anti- small business hostility of this legislation is really amazing when we gotten in five years is one point Seven billion dollars invested in North Carolina, twenty two thousand new jobs in the renewable energy for four in sustainable energy, cleantech sector. There is hundreds of millions of dollars in investment waiting to happen. I have a buddy of mine good friend is a bit player in the subsectors of a small business fifteen people. That's all he's got a twenty four twenty five million dollar deal. It will close in four weeks. If we would stop messing with this bill. If we would allow there to be some business certainty, civic businesses know how to get investors. Investors will not play long as were playing these games for every million dollars. That's twenty construction jobs for three to six months were talking about five hundred jobs in construction, they can start a month. Now if we would just put this to bed. He has another twenty five to seventy five million in deals that can happen this year. That's a small player. While we would try to destroy one of the few sectors that have actually grown over the course of the recession is beyond me. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I hope that we put this thing to bed and exit as at English language rate of interest of your buddies and me to know. Credits that he receives from the federal government, state government that will live in Charlotte resident taxpayers pay for his financial success that you want talk about diversification of what types were new energies. They can be used to meet a lady is a heavily vested in one and his wife about the the whole electrical, thermal, wind, hydropower, geothermal, ocean current wave energy via math, including a quarter waste and waste food waste Tim Pope Woodruff combustion residues combustible liquids from possible gases. Energy crop for landfill methane Wednesday can be derived from renewable energy source views produce electricity of use for measurable family energy at the retail letter from the customer facility, else a hardened rock derived from this renewable energy resource are all different forms of writs that can be used in its unedited friend is heavily invested in solar look in this issue, which you looking at what the subsidy for the federal government into a megawatt is eight hundred dollars when you're looking at a total cost eight hundred dollars versus three dollars for Nagler and one dollar for natural gas, so a litany cost efficiencies should the federal government, which is technically all of us a taxpayer subsidized eight hundred dollars per megawatt or you looking at natural gas, which is a dollar. Which actually gone back agriculture, as well as performers like to have older forms, natural gas, which some pardon for cut their energy cost down to cut their energy cost a few hundred thousand dollars. So while I appreciate the concern, but were looking at what we have now and this doesn't change the current rightful. We have now. It just keeps what we have and others promise energy resources would keep a keep delivering the technology keep improvement that it will become the energy source that people want to go to does it will be cost-efficient and not suck dolls at eight hundred one ratios. If, as compared to natural gas twenty [SPEAKER CHANGES] Rod Araujo, thinking that Mister Jim and I think Senator Brock was very clear about the fact that this is the kind of provisions well concerned about because in reality we're subsidizing an industry whose at least six years to try to show that they could release you believe my number is correct to thirty cents on the dollar comes from the federal credit in the and thirty five cents from the state credit it under that circumstance, we are actually doing this is having the taxpayers subsidize the cost of electricity by trying to move these forward to me prior. Even prior to the fact that via the technology is is is sound enough to stand on its own merit and what that is, if you talk about small businesses. The court below cost of energy could be significantly improved Philistine by allowing this to your life energy, a low-cost, not subsidize a high cost, and when it's ready to come forward, then it should be utilized and that means when he can come out with some form of competitive pricing. They convert around the famous German I can open the basis of this legislation as it does extend out to two thousand twenty three, which gives companies time to continue to take advantage of the

Also I think something that most need to know about the bill is this bill’s going to be referred to Commerce so we can debate it more. I’ve heard some of the concerns that Senator Blue has heard, and I’d like to hear more of those and we’ll continue to work on this bill, but sooner or later you’ve got to put an endpoint to this. How long do you subsidize it? If 2023’s not the right year, then somebody tell me what is the right year. How long do you subsidize it? So I think that’s the question, and again, we’ll debate this and we’ll listen to the concerns as this thing moves to Commerce, but again, I think you’ve got to find an end date eventually. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Senator Ralph. Senator McKissick. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Well I’ll be completely candid. This bill gives me very grave and very deep concern. I was around when we passed Senate Bill 3, and it was a careful balancing of competing interests among all the stakeholders, whether they were environmentalists, whether they were utilities – all those that were interested in our renewable resources program. What we were all interested in doing was coming up with something that was livable, something that was practical, and something that would most of all look at alternative forms of generating energy in this state, and I think it’s been very, very successful in accomplishing that objective. If you look at our renewable energy portfolio and look at what it is composed of today as opposed to what it was when this bill was passed, we’ve made quantum leaps forward. We’ve come a very, very long way. It’s generated thousands of jobs. If you look at the number of solar farms that are out there today in North Carolina compared to what it was previously, my understanding now, we’re among the top five states in America. If you look at what the, as Senator Blue was pointing out, what these hog farmers were doing with their waste and how it could be utilized, the investments that were made to capitalize upon that and to include that as part of our alternative sources of energy, we’ve made significant strides forward in accomplishing that. I don’t know why, in the face of significant progress in better utilizing our resources, in trying to make customers and users of electricity more aware of how they utilize electric power, why we would turn our back on a program and initiative that has been successful for North Carolina. If anything what we should be doing is perhaps continuing to bring these stakeholders together to see what we can work on together to continue going down this path – not abandoning it, not turning our backs on it, not sitting here and basically saying we’re going to keep it at 3%. We need to get it on up to 12%. We need to do what was originally envisioned in this state, but when we abandon our efforts and we create commercial uncertainty in the marketplace, particularly when this is a section of the economy that has grown during the recession and which has been good for this state, it’s bad public policy and it creates mistrust. People don’t know what the state of North Carolina is going to do next. One thing that we’ve begun to do is back away and back away and renege on obligations that we’ve made as a matter of public policy and passing laws and initiatives, and this is just another quantum step backwards, and I’m disappointed to see this bill being brought before us, Senator Brock. I guess my question to you sir is why in the face of all the progress that we’ve made in pulling together alternative energy sources and trying to pull together these stakeholders which have been unified frequently in the past as a voice, why are we going to now turn our back on this effort? Why are we now trying to rethink this direction, and what do we gain from it all? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Senator McKissick. I’d love to answer this question. We’re talking about the thousand jobs that were created? I’ll tell you about one of my first “welcome to Raleigh” moments. When I went over to the Commerce Department, sat in a chair with my nameplate on it, they told me to get out because they were waiting for Senator Brock to arrive because I was… they thought somebody much older would sit down. We lost four thousand jobs out of ??. Some of those were my family members. Freightliner losing from 45 hundred down to four thousand. Now those were a lot of environmental regulations and other regulations on why it was easier to have business in other countries rather than North Carolina. Eight thousand jobs directly related to those, you look at the effect of that, of what it did in my area. When I did a comparison, no other area in the state of North Carolina or the country

Jobs in that area. My district is than Senator Hartsell differed in. We knew what I mean Annapolis which we share was in the center depression. There greatly went on a working layout of it. We get back to the point of religion ones offer creative and Senator son 's body over there. Claim twenty jobs each time they delighted to have a and installation one of the long-term effects of those jobs. That's a job for the temporary decision. We want something. If reliable and cost-efficient when you're working about a competition where a copy out of this is not South Carolina, Virginia, the people is in China right now that is what our job for the one in which we are putting a anchor around the leg of North Carolina's economy to subsidize. I heavily subsidized industry for solar is eight hundred two, one for natural gas eight hundred one, and we let it area syndrome. While they had the title subsidies. It came from the federal government. Their normal stimulus packages. How many of those when the stimulus went away win under the Java boundless people cause it doesn't pay for itself. You've got to find something that's cost-efficient that the economy can grow seven S dependable three sixty five, when nothing was a bill number less everyday of the week. If you're looking is always on carnivore of the energy they don't have that constant need that when you flip that switch to energy will be there. We have to wait and is familiar. There's a lot of variables we want technology to be there. We have to three percent or less for additional ten years and the technologies I have it. Also they get of major breakthrough, we can come back to the general family, but we won't need to, because the marketplace. The marketplace will dictate the energy source, and if it comes much cheaper. We figure out we had we are well great way to look at solar may currently or development families. You can put on eating window right now to get some type of energy, power, you can still see for what phrases like the but it doesn't pay for itself, it doesn't come close with that technology advances, the generation coming to look at the list, though there is more cost efficient emissaries and the subsidies and those that come from the federal government. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The rug away beyond broke up one quick follow-up and litigious about twenty seconds when I brought you up to China in the largest producer of solar equipment in the world, it would compete with China. We need to be about producing solar energy, domestic, I have run usually have to buy it because her talk to us or his mother produce a misnomer. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I think they got owned to something that we need to get on to as well to be smart about doing it and get ahead of the curve within the high recovery like that. Q because, lastly right. I think of you bringing those from title VII, as it would be positive and hesitant ways from here on a few like to be recognized. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I'll recognize you when I'm at. I will expect you to stop. Yes, Mister Jackson had a problem at a funeral veneer wall of prejudice cheer just in a week. We tell early about culture and collaboration between all the different composer. I culturally see he's collaboration with appropriations wine industry. The forest products industry. They're all engaged in in in this energy that we're talking about, but also great. We talk about competing with the world are European friends are exporting with Ellis North Carolina Southeast in all this is involved in this energy bill out that we have been very mindful when we start him ceased to our small business people do this and then we change the mill destroying that's my concern. I question answered Walters and other numbers considered whether Mister and if a man like this question, Mister Conrad said that was left on red dye, who with the again, I think Konrad Steffen, North County utilities commission, but if I heard what you said a minute a day, but I'm not sure it really sunk in with me and so I got to ask it back to you to be sure, the way I understood it, is what you really tell them up, I'm a residential customer on the Duke energy grid were you telling me that next year the rights they propose

residential customer, that with the reps rider on there, my monthly bill would be a little bit lower than it would be without the reps rider on it? [SPEAKER CHANGES]Yes, Senator Clodfelter. [SPEAKER CHANGES]That's what I though you said. [SPEAKER CHANGES]Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES]Thank you Senator Clodfelter. Member, any more questions for the committee? [SPEAKER CHANGES]Mr. Chairman. [SPEAKER CHANGES]Senator Jackson. [SPEAKER CHANGES]Thank you Mr. Chairman. I'll be brief with my comments. Senate Bill 3 was a bad idea in the beginning, and I appreciate the work that's been done on it, but here's my concern with it. We've had folks that were told this is the bill that's going to be handed to you, we were dealt this hand, they were smart enough to go out there and figure out a way to begin to work to make what we've done as a legislature push down on them. They were smart enough to take that and start figuring out a way to make poultry science work in this thing, the wood pellets try and work, the swine industry has done extensive work in trying to make this work on lagoons, and now we're going to try and change the policy. I mean, these are entrepreneurs, in my opinion, that we've been trying to stifle because of the policies that this general assembly is making. We flip flop back and forth, and that's the problem we've seen in agriculture overall. Weather's going to come and go, we can't predict that, but what's going to hurt agriculture in this state is going to be the policies, and I think, being that we've got this bill in place, that we are trying to mandate to, or we are getting with the reps credits. We need to leave it alone and let it try and do its own thing, and give it some more time. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES]Thank you Senator Jackson. Senator Hunt. [SPEAKER CHANGES]Thank you Mr. Chairman. I basically have the same concern. Excuse me. We have a lot of subcontractors, a lot of contractors that made deals based on the original legislation, and I just wondered, have you all considered any kind of a compromise, like 5%, 6%? [SPEAKER CHANGES]Yeah, that's one thing we're working on, and also as Senator Brown mentioned before, we are going to commerce with this bill after finance, to look at the numbers. And that technically, Senator Hunt, is what we're trying to, hopefully, get into discussion here today, not so much on the policy side of it, but the numbers side of it. And those are something we're trying to work on to get to those numbers that are workable, and make sure that the experiment of renewable energy is being subsidized to make sure we get something that actually works, and work on those numbers, instead of subsidizing a particular industry, and picking a winner in this area. And that's what we're working on. Also I know the House, they had a bill that ran through a hurdle there, but they're looking at something else. They're trying to work on something that working on these rates and this structure is a continual work in progress. [SPEAKER CHANGES]Thank you Senator Brock, we're going to now. [SPEAKER CHANGES]Follow up, Mr. Chairman. [SPEAKER CHANGES]Open discussion. One more, you have a follow up? [SPEAKER CHANGES]Yes, thank, a follow up. And so you're going to be working on that, and based on that I can support it, but would you get with me sometime in between now and commerce, and we'll talk about it? Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES]Senator Clark, did you have a question? [SPEAKER CHANGES]No, I do not. [SPEAKER CHANGES]Thank you. We're now going to open the floor to members of the public. I have a few ground rules here that I always do. I would ask you, you have signed up, I will call your name, if you would, please identify yourself afterwards. You'll have 2 minutes. Please address the bill as it pertains to finance, we will address the commerce portions of the bill when it's in commerce, and everyone will have a chance to speak over there. The first signup is Summer Lanier from Prestige Farms. Welcome Ms. Lanier, you have the floor when you're ready, if you'd just turn on your mike. [SPEAKER CHANGES]I think it's on. [SPEAKER CHANGES]That mike, thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES]Okay. Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, thank you for allowing me to speak to you today. My name is Summer Lanier, and I'm the public relations director for Prestige Farms. We're a family owned and family operated pork and poultry production company with over 70 owned company facilities, 1,100 employees, and 300 contract growers, independent producers in Southeastern North Carolina. We recognize and appreciate the efforts of our lawmakers to maintaining the agricultural car bills put forth in Senate Bill 3, but Prestige Farms still opposed the proposed committee substitute to Senate Bill 365, and we will not support any changes to the reps in any form.

Him his first new energy project utilizes wood products are producing for the manufacturing process was ever whelming success not only for it could completely eliminate our need for foreign diesel fuel. At that e-mail. They also say it is gently and effectively cost-effectively produce electricity that we been so back to the grid and his success would not have been possible without the provision and as written legislation currently presages producing an otherwise energy project, which is a popular gasification facility, down Clayton County that will help our bridges are safe to take the young foreign countries. Great job than economically depressed area to provide an alternative layer management option for the largest industry. Instead, prices are the certainly see a halt to its waste-to-energy project without the support of spindle three, as it's currently written by the establishment, Vice President invested millions of dollars to fulfill the utility companies needs. I think it's cost-effective to the right players provide financial stability to the state 's largest employers to invest millions in an economically depressed areas that we serve a certain long-term markets are established projects such as procedures would see would be ultimately be able to be developed without incentive for any changes to the legislation would seriously jeopardize and discourage investment in renewable energy, North Carolina's animal agricultural industry wants to be safe, sustainable, the provisions event. All three of four. It is not only the opportunity that economically but also environmentally sustainable in the long term. They do thirty seconds. Please support out-of-state largest industry and largest employer bothering against Senate Bill three sixty five, and legumes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] So come Butler welcomes about the obvious German numbers of many thinking fillets, executive, you might the press a button, you are no other just testing the house of yes or okay, [SPEAKER CHANGES] thank you for letting me off, spank you today, my name is Tom Butler and I have a hog farmer on. I am here today to speak on behalf of all reforms and the Johnson Council is six Swan waste-to-energy projects in North Carolina. Currently, and one of those projects is dislocated my form, we take a life methane from our covered with Vince and we make electricity. We also have installed solar panels is up to me at our electricity needs that are formed by reforms is proud to be known as a hot day, environmentally friendly renewable green energy phone were proud of their into oh seven, the General assembly may permit a junior moratorium on expanding all forms with lagoons and Sprite feels as though way to handle their waste. We could build a new farm. But it must meet strict environmental standards at present there is no technology available that we can afford to do that were still working on the industry spent millions of dollars in research to try to compensate no, we do know that the superior technologies that we are asked to put in place capture missing and that's what we're doing at our form are taking methane and make electricity on in the electricity generating business. Not because I want baby because I feel like I should be. I firmly believe that the ability the sale electricity derived from home waste is a sexual energy to the future viability of our industry. The new version of the video before you would eliminate any future opportunities for all farmers to produce electricity section three of the veil will not allow people currently in the pipeline that have time to recover their costs for my project. It took more than year to negotiate an agreement. And I think this bill call for sixty days. Another problem is the sunset of reps in two thousand twenty three as I was like a long time that is just not enough time to do the research and to see what happens and

I read playing their investment. Please reject efforts to reveal this renewable energy. The love, boundless Ralph Thompson [SPEAKER CHANGES] good afternoon Tom on the German and the other committee money. Ralph Thompson. I'm the president of Holocene energy here in Raleigh were drawn normally present opportunity to speak on the owned on the Senate bill three sixty five holes is a renewal energy company whom it is made up of three different companies on. We have all men are all located here on Atlantic Avenue, just this dentistry from the legislator the first of those is a technology company is a small company is a manufacturer and developer technologies that were primarily in the thermal energy arena. Our products are manufactured in here with long folks from Raleigh that that otherwise would be working today. If we didn't if we want actually in the middle of this this process. Our employees are our welders, carpenters, plumbers, electricians, engineers, level staff of usually staff member is spent on his career, developing these types of products that these parts are being sold not only in the US, but we're talking to a countries north of us and sell the bus and was a bus. Another part of our team is a construction company that works out primarily on the East Coast, but we do a project in the geothermal, solar thermal and also impeding our our clients are both private and public companies and others invest vast knowledge is our destiny types of projects. We also have a project finance company which is doing very well in circumstance put them at the same time with the all common legislators creating quite a bit of store for us but with with our own experience. We developed here in North Carolina were actually in the process of talking to the states. Both north and south of us and and dumb on the Midwest about developing, owning, operating projects. I think it's a concern, even Moses lose you about that free markets. There so much discussion about free markets. I want to make it really clear that the other when it comes to energy in North Carolina, a free market doesn't exist on the utilities have a monopoly over this arm of the state were no energy portfolio standard introduced limited competition, which is given our company. Companies like us opportunity to build all technologies start again. We aren't. We are not drawn a company, because and we are in North draw because Lorrie PS we have a lot of choices on invested personally in this business, and we taken the money that we may invest in new technologies. Please vote above continue competition and all and elevation and voting no phones in over sixty five. Avis Chairman, members of committee on Paul Sherman North Carolina Farm Bureau on this life take a quick moment and imagine of it to Farm Bureau was a participant in Senegal three was initially negotiated all men, even the somewhat skeptical on participant in that negotiations on, but it was a very long drawn out process and in the end, we ended up with with the site policy from North Carolina and calls that state policy investments were made on both the home bother poultry and the All port livestock industries, and we would like you to not support this bill so that we can see that investment continue to grow and enviable to bear fruit. I keep is my strong German anonymous Don Butler, a vice president for government relations and public affairs for Murphy Brown, which is the livestock production subsidiary of Smithfield foods with the largest pork producer in the world and were head quartered in Warsaw, North Carolina. We are very much opposed to the bill was for you today. We have spent literally tens of millions of dollars over the last fifteen years. I investigating various technologies have come to the conclusion that we know a lot about growing things we don't know a lot about making electricity. So, our business plan is to partner with companies from around the world who have that expertise have their own capital and are willing to come and try and make energy production work on swine operations, and we have had people from around the globe come and talk to us and they were here because of Senate Bill three Senate bill three did not exist, they would be in Iowa or Wisconsin or Minnesota

...they would not be in North Carolina, and we understand that if Senate Bill 3 were repealed or significantly changed—amending it or sending it to a study bill, is the same as saying to the world that North Carolina is really not serious about renewable energy from swine farms. It would be a grave mistake in our view as a business. I'm a pork producer myself and I'm telling you that the investors and the bankers and the technology providers have sent a very clear signal to us. Without Senate Bill 3 you won't see us again and you would be jerking the rug from under those people who have invested tens of millions of dollars. Have it on the ground today. Tom Butler's farm and several others around the state. Three are currently under construction. Those investors, those technology providers are scared to death. They want to do multiple projects going forward. If you cripple Senate Bill 3, that will not happen. Now, thanks to the wisdom, or lack thereof, of the North Carolina General Assembly we've had our hands tied behind us for a decade. We are the only state in America that has a moratorium on a legal business. We're in the food production business. So, I would ask you to think about what's already been done to this industry. Please don't do this. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Butler. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Okay, members of the committee. We have a bill before us. Do I hear a motion? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Senator Rucho. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. chairman. I think we've heard some good discussion today and it still leaves opportunities for us to go forward in Commerce and address some of the issues that have been brought forward, and I think we will be doing that in Commerce. But, it's still a factor that renewable energy sources really don't provide a constant reliable source of electricity to be put into the grid; and that means that we still have to have the base load plan cost into delivery electricity So that any time that switch is turned on, there has to be power there. With that being said, I move that for a favorable report of Senate Bill 365-PCS and unfavorable to the original bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you. The motion before the committee... [SPEAKER CHANGES] [crosstalk] Mr. Chairman. [SPEAKER CHANGES] ...is for a favorable report. All of those in favor please say Aye. [brief pause] [SPEAKER CHANGES] [crosstalk] Mr. Chairman. Can I have the [inaudible]?? please? [SPEAKER CHANGES] [chorus] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Opposed No [brief pause] [SPEAKER CHANGES] [chorus] No. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Chair-- [SPEAKER CHANGES] Motion carries. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Motions over. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yeah, committee adjoined. [SPEAKER CHANGES] What was the...[inaudible crosstalk]?? [SPEAKER CHANGES] And that's legit? [SPEAKER CHANGES] [Response inaudible] [SPEAKER CHANGES] Good. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] [Inaudible background crosstalk] [inaudible]...If we knew what the motion was..otherwise, we would have never let it go forward.