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House | September 22, 2015 | Chamber | House Session

Full MP3 Audio File

Okay. The house will come to order, members will take their seats, visitors will retire from the chamber. The Sergeant-at-Arms will close the doors. The House will come to order. Members and visitors will please silence all electronic devices. The prayer will be offered Sharon Sullivan, legislative assistant to Representative Shaffer. Members and visitors in the gallery will please stand and remain standing for the pledge of allegiance. Good morning, would you please pray with me? Heavenly father, in Daniel chapter two, your word tells us that you changed times and seasons, you depose kings and raise up others. You give wisdom to the wise and knowledge to the discerning. I thank you, Lord, for each member you have raised up as a representative this term, and I thank you for their willingness to serve and give so much of their personal time to our great state. I ask Lord for you to give the members and their staff ask the strength and endurance to complete the work that remains to be finished. Help them father to seek your will in the coming days, and the courage to act upon it. I pray for there to be a sense of unity in the House. And that the work of the people will be completed quickly and without obstruction. I also ask for the safety and good health to be upon the members, their families and their staff. I thank you, Father, for the many blessings that you have bestowed on us individually and as a nation. May we never forget that you are the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. In Jesus' precious name I pray. Amen I pledge allegiance to the the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic fro which it stands, one Nation Under God, indivisible with Liberty and Justice for all. Representative Lewis is recognized.  Mr. Speaker, the journal for September 21st has been examined and found to be correct. I move that it stand approved as written. Representative Lewis rules that the journal for September 21 be approved as written, those in favor wall say aye.  Aye. Opposed no, the ayes have it, the journal is as written ratification of bills and resolutions none is the nurse of the day here Laura Mogemus of Mt. Halley, yes, thank you for coming. Do we have messages from the senate? We have one message. A message from the Senate, the Clerk will read. Mr. Speaker, it is ordered that the message be sent to the House of Representatives with information that the Senator to concur in Senate Bill house committee substitute forth division. A bill to be entitled and act to amend into profession, councils act to modify educational qualifications for the practice of council linking to require Local Boards of Education to address sex trafficking prevention and awareness and request conferees to present pro time to reports. Senator [xx], Senator Daniels, Sanderson, Newton, Codeth, Krowler, on the [xx] to Senate to confer with committee [xx] that the end differences at last be resolved, Sara Lang, personal clerk. Noted. Members the current plan is that we will take up the first bill and probably go into recess at that point. Before I do that, I'd like to introduce a couple of people. First on the motion of our clerk Miss Leaks, the Chair is happy to extend the courtesies of the gallery to Dave Littleton? Dow. Dow Littleton. The reading clerk of the Oklahoma City. Alabama. The Alabama City. Sorry the Chief General Clerk from Arbraska and Carol Coronado the Index Clerk for Arbraska. Please folks please do stand we'd appreciate it, where are you? And a motion of all the members The Chair is happy to extend the courtesy of the floor to Senator Coby[sp?] Coash[sp?] of Nebraska who is here and hope. Thank you. And perhaps in the recess you can find out how they do it Nebraska. They don't have to deal with the Senate no excuse me they're all Senators they don't have to deal with the House is that right? Okay, calendar. Clerk will read House Bill 361. Representatives Collins, Steiner, and Setzer.

House Bill 361. A bill to be entitled an Act to Provide for the Principle-Based Valuation in the Life Insurance Standard Evaluation Law, and standard non conformature convictions of North Carolina insurance law to make conforming, and clarifying changes to the laws governing professional professional world organizations insurance company deposits continue with care retirement communities, health insurance external review, and insurance company names to advice insurance policy renewal for these, and to rename the definition  of small employees, and to make typical corrections. [xx] next. After we hear who [xx] I want to recognize Representative Collins for a motion. Yes Representative Collins. Thank you Mr. Speaker, I move that we concur on the senate version of house bill 361 You recognize to debate the motion? I don't know if you remember this bill or not, it's one of the very exciting bills that came through during our session this year, very technical about how reserve for there claims, this bill passed the house in 116 but nothing. The senate did make some changes in that they decided to make this bill also a technical corrections bill for the topic of insurance since I handle about three pages of technical changes. These changes were all approved by everybody from the insurance commissioners office to the industry there was no debate, or no opposition to any of these changes, they also changed the effective date due to the lateness of the bill coming back over, the bill passed the senate with these changes in it 47 to nothing so I would ask for your green vote for concurrence. Further discussion or debate? If not, those in favor will vote aye those opposed will vote no, the clerk will open the vote The clerk will lock the machine and record the vote. The ayes are 102, the no's are zero, the motion is passed, the bill will be enrolled and set for the Governor. Representative Lewis is recognized for a motion to recess subject to and his motion will be subject to ratification messages from the senate committee reports, conference reports, referrals of bills and resolutions and appointment of conferees. Mr. Speaker, subject to the ratification of bills and receipts of messages from the senate, committee reports, conference reports, the re-referral of bills and resolutions, and the appointment of conferees, I move that the house do now adjourn to reconvene at 12:30 PM. Motion is before you. All those in favour say aye, Aye. Oppose say no. The Ayes appear to have it. The the aye's have it, we are in recess till 12.30. Mr. Speaker you said adjourned till when? Recess till 12.30. You said adjourned. Sorry.   Mr. Speaker. Yes sir. The question was put as a recess so we are in recess to 12.30. The house will come to order. Members the chair is about to re-refer two bills senate bill 370 to move from the committee on judiciary number two and recalendar pursuant to rule 36B, senate bill 605. Short title an act to make various changes to the revenue laws is removed from the committee on rules calendar and operations of the house the committee on finance. Members the the Chair is about to point this out, but I think the Chair will recognize the gentleman from Durham, for what purposes is the gentleman from Durham rise? To let everybody the I know that I no longer sit in this corner alone and by the grace of God and everybody else I am so happy to welcome back Mr. Speaker now you will to my seatmate who we have missed for so many this month or two and we so happy to have her back. She is just as radiant as she was when she left here probably a little bit more. But we are just happy to have here back. Representative Connie on behalf

of Speaker Moore and Speaker Folkstorm and all the members of the house the Chair would like to reassure the lady that here presence was missed and we're thrilled beyond words that you're back with us and that you continue to serve the people for Mecklenburg County. For what purpose does lady from Mecklenburg Representative Carney arise? I would like to try a point of personal privilege? The lady is recognized to speak three minutes to a point of personal privilege. Thank you Mr. Speaker and members of the house. This part here is a emotional, it's my first step out to be among a crowd, an enormous crowd of friends, and I'll tell you I'm here by the grace of God, the power of prayer, and hanging onto life, and I couldn't have done it without the prayers all of you, I have been so moved by the e-mails, the cards, the text messages, and flowers, and goodwill visits from some, but it's been a journey, and I will share that with everyone what I have been through, and I'm standing before you, and grateful from the bottom of my still beating heart. I have around my neck, my lifeline. It is connected to a pump in my lower chamber, and I now have, believe it or not a stronger natural heart than I had before. Miracles happen but boy I've had several in my life so, don't anybody ever asked me if I believe and I'm one. Over and over again but again I give all my thanks, to each of you and to God my savior, and I'm here again because whatever it is he wants me to do, I'm here so I'm not going away. So thank you all, thank you. Calendar, House Bill 117, the Clerk will read. The conferees appointed to resolve the difference between the Senate and the House of Representatives on House Bill 117, Bill to be entitled to enact the North Carolina complete set. Senate finance committee substitute to adopt H615, six edition to gross rate 1115 submit the following report to leave the anti-senate finance committee substitute adopt H615, sixth additional gross H1115 substitute detach proposed conference committee substitute H117-P60S10445-RB-3. The conferees recommend that the senate and the house of representatives adopt this report the conferees approved report September 17, 2015 conferees in the Senate. Senator Brown- Chair, Senator Apodaca, Rucho, McInnis, Barefoot, Barringer, Gunn, Hise, Tucker, McKissick, Bryant, Davis and Clark. Representative conferees for the House of Representatives. Representatives Lewis, Chair. Representatives Saine, Brawly, Szoka, Jeter, Martin, Collins, Steinburg, Davis, Bradford, Dultry, Goodman, Moore, Hamilton, Jackson and Bill. Members before we move on, the chair would also like to extend his courtesy of the floor to former Member Representative, Ruth Samuelson of Mecklenburg County, welcome back. The lady from Wilson, Representative is recognized for a motion. Thank you Mr. Speaker. I move that the house do concur to the conference report for House Bill 117. The lady from Wilson has moved that the House do concur in the conference report for House Bill 117, and the lady is recognized to explain and debate the conference report. Thank you Mr. Speaker, we've spent a lot of time on this Bill. So I'm going to try, and go through, and tell you, highlight what some of the differences are, and then be available to answer questions along with some of my colleagues. There're seven parts. The first one handles the JDIG modifications which we have debated significantly. The Senate made many changes, but it came back to us in a modified version though I think we can be very supportive of it, does increase the annual commitment from 15 million to 20 million, it extends the program until 2019, it makes some minor changes to

the matching requirements for local community and the TR3, TR2, TR1, but nothing that I think will be objectionable to anyone. The minimum criteria for participating in the program for a TR3 county, goes from 20 jobs to 50 jobs. The most significant change I think, that folks in this chamber will like, and that is the creation of the mega site or high yield project component, when we were talking about increasing the JDIG amount their were some folks who said I could support increasing it if we knew it was for an auto manufacturer or for a large deal and this creates that differential, so that if we have the opportunity for a company that will invest $50 million and at least 1750 jobs at that point we have more capacity for JJ. I also would draw your attention to there is a bill summary online that covers the conference report. We don't always have a summary for the conference report but it does give a good outline and you may want to follow along with that And the second part is the one and C modifications and this is just a small piece, but again folks in this chamber when we debated the bill I think would support which is a more specific matching requirement for our local communities when we are giving them a one end secret, and that the state would fund $3 for every one in a tier one county which are remember, poorest communities. $2 for every local dollar in a tier two and a one for one match in a TL3, so we're not contributing as much for these communities that have the ability to contribute on their own. Part three is the data Center Infrastructure Act and that is the same language as was passed here in the house, Part 4, the sales tax relative to aviation, there's a slight in this component we did pass this out of the house but this one expands it. Our version was an exemption of the current policy which was exemption if your sales tax was in excess of $2.5 million which really only impacted one airline in the State. The change they accept for all airlines that have a hub in North Carolina that sales tax will be exempt, which brings us in line with neighboring States and the industry to keep this hubs in North Carolina, so we think that is a good fairness change. Okay the'res some other sales tax exceptions for qualified aircraft and jet engines, some other technical changes in that area so part five the exempt motor vehicle services contracts from sales tax. This is more of a technical correction now that we have a sales tax expansion that we passed in our budget on repair work last year we had some sort of contracts that we were taxing and it was very difficult for our auto dealers to administer, so this is really just a technical to say that now maintainance and repair will be taxed more broadly and you don't have to differentiate if it's in the surface contract or not, so we'll fill one thing and move with the new policy correction piece. The next one, part six of sales tax reference for motor sports parts and fuel this was debated and passed over and Senate Bill 605 which we could probably hearing in Finance tomorrow, so it has passed the Senate and it was include in the original house bill 97 and it is now showing up here it was taken out the Conference Report for the Budget, so that's an extension of a current policy and then part seven I believe is a new that we are even talking about and finance but I hasn't come through the House yet, it was in Senate Bill 605 which is the tax compliance and prevention which it is requiring companies to report more information to the department sooner to hopefully catch them fraud earlier and I think it's a good change. With that Mr. Speaker I will defer to questions and I appreciate your support. Representative Martin does have permission to have staff on the floor and sergeant at arms directed to provide a chair for the staff member on the floor. For what purpose does the gentleman from Wake Representative Stam arise? To debate the bill. The gentleman the gentleman has the floor to debate the motion. Mr. Speaker, members of the house, I'm going to demonstrate that am concerned about your health and your time. Why your health?  Well for about the 13th time in a row we're debating the incentives and some of you might have a heart attack here on the floor if I didn't speaker get that so I will but I'm concerned about your time so instead of taking the usual 15 minutes I have put on your desk these last two speeches in this very bill because everything in those last two speeches applies to the conference report I

just all our add ios this the biggest I see in the bill is $50 million so if you reading the bill and you think this is a $50 million question no that's not correct I have about by the way about 20 copies fiscal memo on the bill if you want it come pick it up there in the debate because this is really about a 400 million question, according to the fiscal memo I got JDIG is the big insulator in this whole the rest of it is peanut but JDIG this is a maximum of 780 million or minimum of 243 million of what it really cost, say 500, 000, 000 just count that to present value, it's maybe about a $400, 000, 000 bill, and I'll say this that for $400, 000, 000 we could build a lot of roads, we could extend water, we could extend sewer, and we would get 10 times the economic activity than you'll get from this bill, and to demonstrate that I will go all the way to page two of the paper I passed out earlier about, who is it, last February Representative Martin that we had on the floor and I passed out an article from the southern journal of economics and this journal studied 109 different big industry locations, to see what the effect was on economic activity. We know there's an effect of Representative Dollar giving money to Representative Johnson, and Representative Johnson giving money to Representative Holloway. That's what happens with this incentives, is one person gives money to another. For what did it do the region?  And here's the conclusion it's like three sentences and I'll end with these three sentences. The results show that large farm failed to produce significant net benefits for their host communities calling into question the high stake biding more over jobs and investments. One thing seems clear recruitment did not lead to more rapid regional growth, in all likelihood the absence of significant growth impact means that large companies simply displace other sources of job and income growth in the regional economy. Thank you. For what purpose does the lady from Orange Representative Insko arise? To ask Representative Martin a question. Will the lady from Wilson yield the lady from Orange? She yields yields, thanks. I would like a little more information about the data center that is described on page seven and I assume that this has nothing to do with the Data Center Act or the information technology piece that was in the budget or does it? Thank you, Representative Insko. This does not have to do with, I believe, any of the data center things that were in the budget but I will have staff correct me if I am wrong. I think that was a IT provision. Right now we have this tax treatment for the data centers that are a two hundred and fifty million dollars investment and that industry is very transient and can easily pick up their machines and locate to somewhere else. So in order to be competitive to attract that type of industry that makes up significant investment and improves the personal property tax base. We believe this is a good policy but the nature of that industry is changing so that it's not a single company making that investment, but it's a group of companies who own a potion of the data center. So you'll have a data center that the equipment there will be five or six different companies at the $75, 000 investment, so this is a somewhat of a technical change to go along with how that industry is moving, if that answers your question. Thank you. For what purpose does the gentleman from Cabarrus, Representative Pittman, arise? Speak on the motion. The gentleman has the floor to debate the bill. Like Representative Stan nobody's going to be too surprised that I'm against this. I'm sorry, but I get a little tied of hearing any time some of these is discussed and it may not have come up on the floor here yet, but we've been here and elsewhere, I don't like incentives, but I'm going to do it anyway cause we just have to. You know my mama taught me if you knew something was wrong no matter what the reason you don't do it, and I believe the incentives are wrong I think it's putting tax payers money into something that is non of the governments business to do. We oat to be getting out of the way business and let free enterprise take care of itself instead of picking one of the losers. As Representative Stam pointed out if you address between the

two point I mean the 243.7 million, this a low figure that's estimated on this 640.5 million it's in between this 400 million it's a lot of money and to me using that money for incentives instead of giving collar[sp?] to our retirees instead of doing some of the others things like Representative Stam mentioned that are governments business that we should be funding with that money instead, I think giving instant incentives is an obscenity and we all be ashamed of ourselves would do it. Also, I think tying the reduction of the income tax that we voted on in the budget last week to this bill is also an obscenity, and we all be ashamed of that. Given these incentives just I think I've said this before, but I'll say it again it reminds me of Prince John and the Robin Hood story stealing from your people to give to your crones to keep your self in power. That is what it boils down to and I know Chambers of Commerce is coming after me get rid of me from this place too bad, I'm not going to take a vote that might help me politically when I know it's hurting the citizens of this state, and I came here to fight this kind of corruption and it is corruption in my eyes, and there is no way I'm going to vote for this and I hope some of you will see the light and turn against this kind of misappropriation of funds, thank you. For what purpose does the gentleman fro Haywood representative Queen arise. To speak on the congress report. The gentleman has the floor to debate the conference report. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. One of the things about this Jdeg bill here for this conference report, it's different from Jdeg bills in the past that's disturbing to me is it doesn't have all the jobs and incentives that our tax payers are being asked to step froward to help with economic development. It doesn't have required salaries and benefits that we have required as part of those. We want jobs and we want good jobs. We don't want [xx] low wage jobs. One of the biggest problems in our State, one of the real issues for this General Assembly for government of the people, by the people and for the people, is that mean income is going down, down, down, in North Carolina. $4000 off just in the last few years, the medium family income, that's our typical hardworking constituents have $4000 of their families' salary wage capacity less. And this bill encourages low wage development. Not good jobs so that's the big difference in this and jaydig[sp?] bills in the past. That's one big difference. The other one I think is just, we talked when it was on the floor before, when it was kind of associated with a tax increase for gasoline, for the motorised constituents, versus tax breaks for jet fuel for the high flying constituents it seems like if we're going to raise taxes on one of them we ought to raise taxes on others or vice versa. We ought to keep it consistent. So that's my problem with this bill, and I don't intend to vote for the conference report. Thank you. For what purpose does the Gentleman from Cleveland, Representative Speciale arise? To speak on the bill. The gentleman has the floor to debate the conference report. I too will try keep it short because I don't think there's anybody in here that doesn't know where I stand on this bill. It saddens me that once again we're addressing this issue, once again we're getting ready to spend a half a billion or more of the peoples money on something that we shouldn't be spending money on. These things don't work. There's a million studies out there that say it don't work, especially they don't work in North Carolina. North Carolina is terrible has a terrible history of using inside and unsuccessful history of using incentives. A history of giving incentives when the buildings are half built I'm not going to go through all that. You all know that already. What disappoints me is once again we're picking winners and losers because for some

reason, once we won the election, we all got the vision of the anointed and we know who the winners and the losers are so we can distribute the peoples money. We can just reach right into the peoples pockets, pull that money out and give it to someone else. People that we think are going to do what we want them to do. I just think it's a mistake. I think it's not what we should be doing. I think it's not what any off us was sent up here for, and we hear all kinds of excuses, we hear about why this is a good deal. One of the things I hear is well, I don't normally like incentives, but until we're in a position where our tax system, the tax policies can bring in business, we've got to do this. Well if we're spend a half a billion or more a year, how in the world are we ever going to get our tax policies to a point where we can lower the taxes enough to be able to bring business in here. Years ago, the global [xx] I'm sure most of you or some of you are familiar with it. That was one of the big boom [xx] of North Carolina [xx]. After 20 years [xx] still a useless waste of money, a one on bandit that we keep feeding but, they did a study. They spent some of the people's money to do a study on some of the top companies in the nation and why they moved to where they moved, or why they expanded, why they picked the particular locations, and the top reasons had nothing to do with incentives. It had to do with availability to work force, it had to do with the environment for the people, their it had to do with all kinds of things. And incentives were way down on the bottom. And if you think that any money we could possibly give, although some of these companies is going to bake a difference between whether they move here or don't, you're kidding yourself. If you think we lost the autoplant because we didn't offer enough incentives in senates we are kidding ourselves, the reasons go much deeper than whether or not we give them temporary incentives. I know most of you have already made up your mind what you're going to do. You have already decided whether you're going to vote for this or not. But I hope a few of you that thought vote for it I hope a few of you change your mind and that we get enough votes to kill this bill. For our purpose does the gentleman from Mecklenburg representative Bishop arise? To speak on the conference report The gentleman has the floor to debate the conference report Thank you Mr. Speaker and I'm not going to chastise anybody and I am going to say very much, I simply rise to say that I am going to cast an inspirational vote against this bill. I think deep in our gut all of us have some a version to this. If you're on the left, if you're a democrat, you probably have some reluctance to transfer money from wage earners, truck drivers, who are paying their income taxes to wealthy corporate interests. If you are a conservative, certainly, and it has been said you hear all the time, I hate these things that others do and therefore we must do them. You must have some instinctive sense that something's wrong with this, I think we do. And I think we also talk about a time coming when we create a business environment that is sufficient, not to have to do this. And I'm voting for that day, I'll say to you that I think it will be a harder vote for me to cast if I did not know that this bill was going to pass overwhelmingly so I will be candid about that but the arguments that you here of the cooperate recruit results say that you have to do this even to be considered. The corporations, the businesses going out and finding a new place to have your court orders go through a box checking process and if this box does get checked you do not get considered all of that seems far fetched to me and I'd say this I think last. What this General Assembly has done without any help from me through the majorities been here since 2010 you have created a business environment that's unprecedented in North Carolina, and you have my congratulations for what you've done. Stopping this is the next step in my view, and I look forward to the day that it comes. Thank you very much. For what purpose does the gentleman from Wake Representative arise? To speak on the Conference Report.

The gentleman has the floor to debate the Conference Report. I'm going to oppose this for several reasons, one of them is, I don't like the extortion and blackmail by the State Senate, I don't go with that, it's against my believes. And the other one is we need to set priorities, and it always seems that we end up with no moneys to give our state employees and teachers and the retirees raises on whatever it might be, we need to set priorities, and is it really a priority to do this and the other tax credits we've done and then the State employees and the teachers get nothing, it's wrong. So, for I'm opposed to it. For what purpose does the lady from Mecklenburg Representative Earle arise? Thank you. To ask Representative Martin a question. Would the lady from Wilson yield to the lady from Mecklenburg? I yield. She yields. Thank you. Representative Martin I'm looking at a previous version of this and it has, I'm not sure what it's saying, that's the reason I'm asking, part five, section six it has a section in there about Mecklenburg and I need to know what it means and then I need to know if it's in the current version cause I couldn't find this, so I just need to be sure what it means and if it's in the new version. Can you tell me which version that you are looking at. Okay, version six, engrossed on 8, 11, 15 that's the one that it is in, and it's on page 11, and That's has not been in the Conference Report Nothing specific about Mecklenburg is in the Conference Report. You know sometimes we put things dealing with population, or dealing with insights, so it's nothing in this bill that relates to the previous bill, is that what you're saying? I think that that is correct, and I also have the 50-50 sales tax which were tied in in a lot of restrictions. The only thing that would impact Mecklenburg in this is some of the requirements for the tier three matching which would obviously applies in tier two, and three and that is all. Okay, thank you. Thank you. For what purpose does the lady from Franklin representative Richardson arise?   Thank you Mr Speaker to speak on the bill. The way her support had made the conference report. Thank you, when I seat here, and listen to the debate I wished I could say I represent [xx] county, or [xx] or a Cumberland County, but I don't. I represent District 7 which includes probably a tier one, and a tier two counties, and for those counties that do not need these incentives, they won't say don't apply for them when they are made available. Leave them for our depressed areas, and let us bring some businesses into our areas, because we do need incentives to bring something to a travel, or a lacking out, or a lease bird, or a wheel off kilometer many of you have never heard off, so I know that we all talk about giving tax dollars but we gave tax dollars when we gave brakes to corporations, we gave tax dollars to a lot of other things, but I'm standing before you today to plead for you to help Eastern North Carolina not have to depend on the rich or poor counties in North Carolina to help sustain us and even after we get these jobs if we're lucky enough to get them, we will still have to shop in the Durham, in the Charlotte, in the Wake County areas because we're still not going to have the infrastructure that you have, so, I say to those counties who don't need this incentives, leave them on the table for us and the counties that do need them so that we can have economic development there. Thank you.  For what does the lady from Randof, representative Harley arise? To debate the conference report. The lady has the floor to debate the conference report. Thank you Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the house.  Daddy worked in Randolph county the way it should work. The money wasn't handed out in the beginning it was earned. Multi-million among Bryan came to Randolph County, they provided many jobs they bought us a cereal company. They have been a wonderful corporate partner,

they have furnished free cereal, or you can buy it for a dollar, they bring truck loads out there and one time a year they you could buy it for a dollar, and you could use it to give out free food or whatever. You could use it for whatever reason you want it to. They're one of our biggest taxpayer in Randolph county. They have added, they have built onto that building. They have added more employees. And they creates jobs, and that's what we're here for. I'll probably not change anybody's mind, but I do know, that it worked in Randolph county, which is not a really big county, but worked in Randolph county. What purpose does the gentleman from Mecklenburg Representative Jeter arise?   To debate the conference floor. The gentleman has the floor to debate the conference for support. You know, I have a love hate relationships with incentives. I hate that don't work, love the ones that do. You know on the floor I've listened to apparently where I've been extorted and I'm corrupt which I found is news to me, because I didn't remember I'm eligible for incentives and if my wife finds out I'm sure she'll apply. We talk about this as if we're in a vacuum and we're not. My home state of South Carolina which showed or heard me mention a time or two used incentives to get BMW, to get Boeing, to get Volvo, Alabama use incentives to get If you look at what BMW did to the upstate of South Carolina since they came there and you want to sit here and tell me incentives don't have an impact greater than the sum of their parts, then you can't do math. Yes there are times funds has been misused. I don't think their is anyone in this floor advocating we misuse this funds but to shoot ourselves in the foot and say we are not going to play in the game it does mater, it does count so we can tell our representatives back home we din't do incentives that's great as long as that constituent has a Job Bobby Richards talked about her district. [xx] Queen talked about the wage of the job. Heck, wage is important unless you ain't got one. I mean we cannot sit here on the floor, and continue to think we are in some Utopian society where we can just tell people how great the mountains are, and how the great the beaches, and how great we've improved the economy. All are true, but I seat seven years as a city council men I spent six weeks ago with secretary [xx] about our developments site where the gentleman told us point blank, we are coming with it we are coming with out it. [xx] bottom of the list, but when they go to it, it was a deciding factor between us, and South Carolina. We can put our heads in the sand, and act like it doesn't matter, or we can do something to put North Carolinian's who want to work, back to work by giving them an opportunity to compete in our region. I ask you to support that report. For what purpose does the lady from Forsyth Representative Conrad arise? To speak to the Conference Report. The lady has the floor to debate the Conference Report. Thank you Mr. Speaker. I've asked today to actually speak in favor of the House Bill 117. The day that Representative Bishop talked about has just not come yet. And I hope that I'm still here when I say we get to the point where North Carolina is so business friendly that perhaps incentives is something of the days gone by but we are not there yet. And I know I have the opportunity as the county commissioner for 18 years, to actually sit at the table negotiate these deals. And I realise that puts me in a different perspective where I'm a little more comfortable with the idea because I've seen it at the ground level how it works and that the devils of the details and that you can negotiate contracts that are on the best interests of the citizens in North Carolina. I do want to address a few other things that I heard her mention, and Representative Queen was worried about the details, as far as number of employees, and the salaries, and benefits and perhaps capital investment. At the local level you have guidelines where US Elected Official can specify those things. Those are embedded in the modelling of the commerce department when they are doing the deals. And they'll put those specifics in the contracts of the expectations that they will verify for any business in which they form

a contract to [xx] or expands in North Carolina. I heard the phrase reap the rich into people's pockets. That's not exactly how it works either at the local level or on a state level. At the local level, you're counting on and you know what the capital investment is going to be that when the project is completed there is going to be new property tax coming in to the local revenue general fund and if you use the percentage of that to fund the incentive program and the State level that works about the same way as Representative Martin described you use the proceeds from employees who now have income and a certain percentage it's a little higher for TIA 1 counties than TIA 2 and 3, a certain percentage of that new revenue coming in, personal income tax to fund the incentive program. So it's not really taking existing money out of citizens pockets you funded by the expansions and growth, which you have to incur. So you are incurring in net benefit. Another phrase that I heard is talking about this has failed, that the incentives hasn't worked. Yes, some of the deal to fail but that's why you have good contracts with call back provisions. I know that one of the biggest deals I did, back home, was with DELL computer we really thought that is going to be game changer offer for site counting, little did we know that desktop computers had a short life span and that soon it will be taken over by something like this iPad on my desk. We put in locally over $6 million. We got every penny back because we were smart. We did a tough deal and it was very specific and when Dell left before the term of time frame they were supposed to be there, we got every penny back and the building was sold which Dell owned and now Herbal Life occupies that building so infrastructure stays behind. Mr. Speaker. For what purpose does the gentleman from Wake Representative Stam rise? Would the lady yield for a question?  Does the lady from Forsyth yield to the gentleman from Wake? Yes have [xx] a question. She yields. Representative Conrad some people were here when we did the Dell deal and we were told that we couldn't change a comma or a sentence of it, we had to do it. Do you know that when it failed the state did not get all of it's money back, and that this house refused to [xx] an amendment, that some of us proposed that would have sure that we would have gotten our money back and that call back provision is still not in this bill. Well, I do know that the state did not fare as well for south county, perhaps if I had been on the table with our county attorney it would have been a better deal. I do have to admit giving up some of that responsibility and not actually having as much hands on as a State House member this idea to county commissioner does give me a little pause but I encourage you to vote green for this bill and let's put us back in the business of recruiting companies to North Carolina, thank you. For what purpose does the lady from Wilson representative Jean Farmer-Butterfield rise? Speaker on Jean Farmer-Butterfield the conference report. The lady has the floor to debate the conference report. Thank you Mr. Speaker Ladies and gentlemen, when I first came to this body in would tell you that representatives of Farmer-Butterfield went to the legislator telling us that she was against the incentives. However, I changed my mind surely I forgot here because I saw how things work in the real world and I saw that in order for North Carolina to become competitive you've got to involve, be involved equals incentives in North Carolina, so I encourage you to support this report an I'm going to say to you that the work in economic development council has vigorously asked me to support this conference report. J Digg has been a lie in my district and they keep reminding me of that. I'm sure some of your areas can remind you if you talk with them how important J Digg has been to the state of North Carolina. And I want to say to you that rural versus urban has been an issue came from this body and we from rural counties in North Carolina have in this supported the urban areas for years and years and years. Folks let's work together, let's look at the total picture in the entire state and say okay, it's time now to

support this Conference Report. And finally I want to say to you, that when you go back in your communities and you get ready to run for election, if that's what you choose to do say, jobs, jobs, jobs, we did it. Thank you, vote Yes. For what purpose does the gentleman from Guildford Representative Blust rise? Speak on the conference report. The gentleman has the floor to debate the report. Thank you Mr. Speaker and members of the house I used to know quite a bit of math and was pretty good at it I think I unfortunately forgotten a lot of it wish I still knew everything I once knew, but I do know enough math to know that the incentive I think Representative Stam said that this is 400 million no matter what you think is the total of this bill the amount we're talking about simply or not big enough to make the difference on the decision, they aren't mathematically that's not what drives a decision of the magnitude of something like BMW, and some of the others that we've seen. It just isn't it's the energy costs, the labor costs, the closeness to the market, the closeness to suppliers, transportation logistics, that's what the labor force, the labor cost, that's what drives the decision. You can know that if you just look at the market caps of some of these corporations that have been involved. We're talking market capitalization in the billions, huge. They aren't going to come or not come for a million here even five million there, that's just no what drives the decision, now what's driving this bill everybody now wants honesty, I've been following the political climate and what gets rewarded are people that speak the unvarnished truth no matter what it cost them. No matter what. Now let me tell you the truth here, this is a bill about the political class what the programs, what this is for is to allow the political class to take credit in the eyes of the public for decisions that are made at the private sector, and right now it seems like those prevailing in the presidential race are those wiling to take on the political class and almost disparage them, and sometimes I want to think, say I can totally understand the public's frustration with the political class because everything is about them. Whether that's office holders, legislatures, executive branch, lobbies, people fake there's rampant corruption, I saw the other day 73% believed government's corrupt, and right now I think we're reaching the point where people don't believe us anymore, where we look almost silly to be able to, and this is what the this bill's about, if we pass this something comes to our area, we can all go out and show our faces, get our picture taken, posted on social media and take credit for what we didn't really do. And that's what the bill is about using tax payer money to help ourselves to extra publicity and credit and I think the public is sick and tired of that. Now how do we ever change that attitude about the political class in the public, it's by starting to act differently, we better start to act differently and that I'm going to oppose this bill is because I know it doesn't do what it's advertised but it does use tax payer money for the benefit of the political class and I think the public is finally starting to wake up out there and getting disgusted with them. Let's change that around let's make them proud of us again. For what purpose does the gentleman from Iredell Representative Fraley arise? To debate the conference report. The gentleman has the floor to debate the conference report. Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentlemen I rise to support this bill, not as left, right, Republican, Democrat, politician, rural, urban or any other classification other than just a business person. Incentives are nothing more than a tie breaker. Much like if you're applying to college.

There could be a lot of people that have great qualifications, comes down to one or two people, one person has a great letter of recommendation, they get the nod over the other. You have to have buildings, product, and education system, a great work force, a place for shopping for people that are going to be working in these factories. All of those things come first. North Carolina needs a tie breaker, which is what this bill presents. Please support this bill. Thank you. For what purpose does the gentleman from Alamance Representative Ross arise? Thank you Mr. speaker on the conference report. Gentleman has the floor to debate the conference report. It's been mentioned in here today that a couple of things been brought up once math. Another thing is that there are millions of reports out there that say this don't work. I don't know about that math, but I can tell you this for every reporter out there that you can find that says they don't work, I can find you one that says they do work. When I spent some time as a Mayor we have several instances where we had opportunities for recruitment of business into my area and corporation with the state and the commerce department, we were able to learn some of those, not just take a small example. We had a large jet engine manufacturing facility coming and looking in our area. Very competitive. The day we met them at the airport they flew in and came in from another state where they had been looking and when they finished with us they left here and went to Texas looking at another site, and I can tell you that there is a number of things that go into that laundry list that of what they are looking for to locate one of those unfortunately is the incentive package, it's way up on the list it's actually at the top of the list, and we were saying at the time where we met with this group, are we going to be able to compete with Virginia? Are we going to be able to compete with Texas? And we weren't sure fortunately we had enough of the things on the list that we came out on top, but we do have a generous incentive package that came from joint effort with local government and the state. Now I want to just remind my colleagues of one thing I've heard a lot in here today about when we get our tax policy to a point where we are attracted to business. There are a number of states right now that have no income tax and have bigger incentive packages than what this is going to do. So, if the tax package is all that important as to whether you're business friendly or not, I'm not saying it's not, because there is a lot of validity to some of that. That's only one piece of the equation. If states out there that have no tax are biting us with larger incentive packages, then how are going to compete if we don't do this, now it's all about as it was mentioned earlier priorities. Now in my district where I come from Job's are a top priority, so for that reason I'll be voting green and ROGs do the same.  For what purpose does the gentleman from Cumberland Representative Floyd rise? Thanks Mr. Speaker to see if Representative Jeter would yield for a question. Does the gentleman from Mecklenburg yield to the gentleman from Cumberland.   Yes sir. He yields.    Representative Jeter I'm going to ask you a question, if you are going to run with the big dogs, what will you have to sir? Okay. I understand that is a rhetorical question. Yes if you're going to run with the big dogs, what will you have to do? This is my point Mr. Speaker now to debate the conference report. The gentleman is recognized to debate the gentleman's question to get off the porch. If the gentleman would like he is recognized to debate the bill.  Mr. Speaker my question to representative Jeter, was the fact that if you're going to run with the bid dog then you have to size up your dog to run with the big dog there was a the gentleman that was at the race track, and the gentleman kept betting on the race dog, the dog kept loosing so the gentleman came with the cane

and he walked over and told the gentleman that was betting on the dog a large dog against the small dog and to do is to size up your dog, you're going up to size up your dog to compete with the big dog, so what I'm simply saying I don't like but I understand that there's hope for my country if we were able to patch this bill incentitives now when we really look at the overall pictures we're talking about jobs if we're talking about a job, people really don't want public assistance they really want to work but some jobs are not going to pay the money that other jobs pay, but I'm convinced, I'm totally convince that these individuals or agencies that we recruit are much smarter than we are, they're already studied the demographic, they already look at the what your incentive package may be and may not be and I don't care who it is even Representative Elmer Floyd. I'm not going into this, and Robinson county which is my seatmate if don't provide me some incentives, it's just a fact, I like it, I stay waiting for a whole year. But if he's not going to give me some incentive, I'm going to Scotland County with my job. And that's what we we have to do if we're going to compete with the big boys, we're going to have play the game whether we like it or not. I don't like this bill and I believe I'm going have to and vote for it. For what purpose does the gentleman from Robinson representative Graham rise? Thank you Mr. Speaker, to speak on conference report. The gentleman has the floor to debate the Conference Report. And Mr. Speaker I want to commend my teammate here for giving a [xx] to Robeson County. I do want to speak on behalf of [xx], North Carolina, and I want to speak more specifically about my district and that's Robinson County, I'm in favor of this conference report it's kind of like the budget, there's some good and there was some bad and in this particular report there's some good and there's some bad. I do want to make a couple of points. To me this is a working class bill. And I have many constituents in my county who are working class people who will take a $9 an hour job and work diligently, they will take a $10 an hour job and do a good job working. So I consider this a working class bill, it supports families, it supports people who are out there looking for opportunity and hope and we have in a rural county assemblies of mine we have lots of these individuals and further more if you're on a rural county and you owe 999 a quarter you got something that you can promote, and that's exactly my situation. When I travel over to Durham County and Florence County, and as soon as I move outside of Robeson County on that 995 Court, it's amazing to see what incentives has done in that part of our country. Right there my county, Robeson County. So, I support the bill, I support the incentive's piece. I'm doing this hoping that we will get some advantage in my district because Lord we need it. We definitely need it in that part of this state. We're border county we are contiguous to know South Carolina and we have to be able to compete with South Carolina and I'm hopeful this will give us an opportunity to do that. To five years ago when I came in here unemployment rate was 10+%. I don't know, probably in my district might have been 15-20 because people had given up hope, they stopped looking it's still high in my district, but I'm looking for something that will promote hope and I heard someone say not too long ago that the worst thing than war is not to have hope. So this gives us hope, and we can take hope allover this state and go along always with it, and I'm certainly interested in that and I'll certainly promote that. So this in my opinion, although there're some things that I don't care about, that not a priority with my district, but I think it overall is a good general incentive policy and I certainly support it, and I will here five years ago to promote jobs and I think this does it to a certain extent and I'm going to vote for it. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Speaker. For what purpose does the gentleman from Mecklenburg, Representative Alexander rise? Speak on the Conference Report. The gentleman has the forward to debate the Conference Report.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. I want to illuminate something that my good friend Representative Jitter was talking about. There was a cut me down in Mexico they wanted to establish little manufacturing operation up here in North America. This part of North America. And they it's allover the country and it get down to a decision between York county, South Carolina and Mecklenburg. Mecklenburg is tier three county. And York county, South Carolina benefits from a whole incentives that we don't have up here. But there in Mecklenburg we've been trying to figure out how to deal with incentives in a way that benefits the small towns and benefits the large city of Charlotte and get everybody, the county, and the city and the small towns, and the various economic development the entities all working together and I think what I'm about to share with you gives you the excellent examples of how incentive work. We talk a lot in here about trying to land the big fish, in a Moby-Dick, but it's not about wheel hunting, it's about companies like [xx] that has 61 jobs, and in order to land those 61 jobs cause I want to tell you that we've been outside of Carolina with all the stuff that they have and we bit about because the Mecklenburg county contributed 297 000$ through something called a business investment grand, the town of Hinesville the represent keeping $123, 000 the North Carolina the job development investment grand. I believe that jdeg, yeah I think so they kicked in $100, 000, now the North Carolina duct, the department of transportation ahead and do a little work around the side because it wouldn't up the par and it already got those tracks in there it moving adequate knowledge, they had to do a little work, and so the value of their work was about $400, 000 and of course the side had to be serviced that water and sewage and the see mud kicked $150, 000 to make sure that we will still [xx] what the hip I had to kick in thousand dollars in order to get those papers in there and get in the service the whole state. In Hudsonville and Lake Norman came together in order to seal the deal, and they put in $34, 000 collectively, and that's a multi-tiered approach that involves every kind of entity in Mecklenburg county to land 61 jobs that are essentially in the town of Hudsonville and will be contributed into that town's tax base. Now, having said all of that I'm sure that you can figure out that when it comes time to vote which I hope will be sometime before midnight, I'm going to vote green and I hope you'll join me. For what purpose does the gentleman from Edgecombe Representative Willingham rise? To speak on the conference report.  The gentleman has the look forward to debate the conference report.  Thank you Mr Speaker, I represent two counties which happens to be two to one counties and one of the things that I did when I ran for elections my thing was I wanted to raise the level of expectations of the people in the counties, because one

of the things that I heard when I was out was that it's nothing that we can do and so nothing is going to make a difference whatever you do up there and I don't believe that, well I was part of as a county commisioner that was part of group that we got a large industry in the county and it was effort local folks the incentives reasonably got it and it has gone on very well, one of the things we found we only got one of those in the county and one of the things that we did we created, we have one of the few super size in the city, we were in the dwelling for the last two or three large development coming to North Carolina the automobile, we were in the running right down to the end and one of the things came up in the discussion was that because of all the uncertainty that we had here in Raleigh, we had not passed anything, we did not offer anything, so they're reluctant to do that and I'm not saying that's the reason that they chose not to come in to North Carolina because I don't know, but I can tell you that it did have some buried nomad[sp?]. So I would hope, and I'll take somethings from two Representatives. Representative Floyd, and Representative Graham things that they said, what this bill does for us in my counties it represents hope and this is something, and it also gives the people back home a chance to have some expectations to something that might happen. You got to have hope and so and that's why I'm going to be voting for the bill and I support it, even thought there are things in the bill that I don't neccesarily like, but I think will be wrong, this is something that will be beneficial to the area that I represent the people that I represent and I think overall should we get something and I'm super excited, it will be something that will be beneficial to the state of North Carolina and so I would also to support the bill, and also this would be one of those things that I voted for that will put no hope in that district and also raise a level of expectation that I promised to the people back there. Thank you. And members we are going to have to revert to some old rules the system is down where I can't actually see whose lights are on, so if members wanted to speak will actually need to rise literary rise. For what purpose does the gentleman from Mecklenburg Representative Beverly rise? To debate the Bill Mr. Speaker. The gentleman has the forward to debate the Bill. Thank you Mr. Speaker. I've been listening to the debate, all the thing we're discussing about and I keep coming back to the wisdom of Tip O'Neill all politics is local. When I first came up here and was sitting in finance and I learnt about incentive programs that happened in the past, one was discused was the Dell factory in the Triad, and I had bought my kids computers that were built in that factory and I was glad that it was so close because I ordered so late I was actually able to get them in time for Christmas, as they had to come from Texas I would not. The big surprise was they all had closed the plant, had been gone for over a year and would still do $27 million in incentives, that's a very bad deal and that was the kind of thing against which I campaigned, the thing we're talking about now with JDIG, I do want to correct one thing. The source of the funds on this is, we're not writing a cheque out of General Fund money, what happens is, if somebody comes in and they do a buttfore[sp?] saying these jobs wouldn't come to North Carolina, but for the incentive they get a JDIG so they get a rebate of some of the tax they add to the state. They get some of that incremental money back. Now some people have a philosophical problem with that, I really don't care one way, or the other because there isn't any JDIG in Matthews, or Menthill[sp?] but I will tell you there are two things that I do see very close as local, the first is data centers. I've visited a Data Center and I really understood the technology because at a mid point in my career I was the data guy for the local Telecommunications Division of Spring[sp?] and my job was to

establish internet service by spring in West and North Carolina, and I will sell you a T1 at 1.536 megabits per second which is slower than your DSL for the pricely sum $3, 750 a month and could sell all I could get because it was about half of what the market was used to pay and now you get more than that out of your cell phone. I went into a data center and I looked at the big racks the $200-300 million data centers we use to see and I saw the new technology and it's a container. Inside the container is a rack, there is a shelf on the rack within that shelf there are 16 processor cards each with four processors, and four terabytes of memory. So just to understand one of those cards is more computer powered than existed in the entire world when I began to work with computers, and there are 16 of the cards on a slot, 28 slots in rack, 30 racks in a container, and they can just bring these in, set them up on the floor and plug them in them in, and because of Moore's law which is every year the power of computing doubles and the cost halves $75 million now is as much as 300 million was two years ago. So we are just maintaining our competitiveness so why would we even care if we've got these things, why did they come, first they came because of cheap electricity. We had a lot of excess capacity because we had lost furniture manufacturing and textile manufacturing in the western part of the state, it was co-powered power plants, they were old, they were cheap to operate and it's good luck for the power company because it's steady. As the coal powered plants are being forced to phase out, the natural gas powered plants will cost more by reducing the taxes on electricity we can maintain competitiveness, otherwise these folks can literally put these containers on these and take them somewhere else, we lose some of that business, we lose quite a few $80, 000 plus jobs of the people that maintain the data centres, but the biggest things we lose are the pipes. These huge data centers require connectivity to the internet to the World Wide Data Communications Network that they subsidized and bring in to rural North Carolina giving us access to Data Communications Technology we would not otherwise have. Because there would not be anybody with big enough pockets to pay for it, the electricity and the connectivity is over 25% of the cost of the data center, just the power bill then we come to the one that I think to which I'm closest that is the aviation fuel. Aviation fuel is a business this input. As you know I have been involved with an issue involving a flying field in Matthew's largest suburb. there is someone who frequently flies airplanes in, and out of there it's called American Airlines. We are their second largest hub, we use to be the largest hub of U. S. Airways. Fuel with our tax structure costs more in North Carolina than any of the surrounding States, and the airlines will frequently tanker fuel in, which is to say they buy fuel in other states to fly out of Charlotte and a lot of of the business we get, are on origination flights that started off with a half empty tank, and they need a full tank to go. If we cut the cost of buying that in North Carolina while we do give up some sales tax on a business input we will have people in North Carolina being paid to pump that gas, not people in South Carolina, or Atlanta. We will have companies in North Carolina making a profit on that, and we will also continue our reputation as North Carolina is open for business. As with our data systems, as with our airlines, we are looking for ways to reduce the cost, and the regulation, and the problems of doing business in North Carolina.

Bring your company here we're going to try to help you. So for the aviation fuel, and the Data Center, I'm voting yes. Mr. Speaker. For what purpose does the gentleman from Lake, Representative Stam rise? To answer Representative Brawley a question. I definitely Yield from my friend from Wake. He yields. Representative Brawley I heard the explanations of jaded that they have to say that, but for these incentives they wont be coming. Yes sir. Well they have to check the box, but they don't actually have to say it under oath, or penalty, or perjury. I offered an amendment in finance committee which the finance chair is opposed that the CEO would actually have to say that that was true. Why did it's finance chair oppose an amendment that would actually require the CEO to say it was really true. What was on their application? I think if every CEO in the nation had a job requirement that they always tell the truth under oath their would be a severe shortage of senior management, don't you representative? For what purpose does the gentleman from Hartford Representative Hager rise? To debate the conference report proposed. The gentleman has the forward to debate the conference report. We're seeing here a debate in whether the incentives work, or do not work, what I can tell you in Hertford County, Fifth District. My county Hertford County is a little less than 25, 000 people, it works. If it were not for incentives Hertford would not have landed a new coal steel which is one of the largest steel mills in the country. The average pay is around -$6, 000. Normally people from my district go to Virginia to the ship yards to work or to produce farms but now we are allowing those same individuals from North Eastern Carolina and South Eastern Virginia to come into our district it will also land the GO prison which is a federal prison. This is the highest tax paying business in my county right now, thanks to incentives we've learned at least two. Jobs and tax basis is very important to us. It's evident that the rural areas are not going to land the infrastructure needs the infrastructure that the urban areas has. This is why I'm going to support this bill, we need these incentives to land these jobs to help our citizens in the Eastern North Carolina, thank you. For what purpose does the gentleman from Orange representative Meyer rise? Thank you Mr. Speaker I'd like to ask a question of the gentle lady from Wilson county. Does the lady from Wilson yield to the gentleman from Orange? I yield. She yields. Thank you representative Martin. Representative Martin can you review section five again the exempt motor vehicle service contracts from sale tax section? Okay, let's see and if you look at the bill summary document, it provides a pretty good example and I think I'll just read parts of that to you. Effective in January 2014, service contracts for motor vehicles became subject to sales tax the implementation of this was difficult for the dealerships to administer, sometimes unclear whether therepair or maintenance performed under a service contract service contracts, the parts are not taxable. But if the repair is not under a service contract the part is taxable. So it lays out what the issue is and now under session law 2015-241 which I believe, that's the budget, is that correct? The sales tax basis expanded to include repair and maintenance service so this section simplifies the administration of the sales tax as a releaf to service contract on motor vehicles by exempting the service contract from tax, and taxing the repairs and maintenance services, regardless whether the services are provided under a service contract. So it kind of takes out that, you don't really have to know if it's under service contract the repairs and maintenance are taxable. The only exemption now if the dealer is under warranty. So under the warranty period that tax is paid through the highway use tax of the purchase of a car. So,  this is a simplification hoping to help the dealerships and be consistent in the taxing. Does that answer your question? May I ask a follow-up Mr. Speaker, does the lady yield to an additional question? Yes. She yields. Thank you for the complete explanation, I have one follow-up question that you may may not be able to answer it cause it may not have been be your inclusion of this senate Bill, but I understand the purpose of this Bill overall is to help North Carolina compete against

other states for attraction of jobs and industry. I'm just not clear how this provision of the bill helps us compete against other states, can you help me with that.? You're correct in that I did not add this to the bill but I think the answer that this is the end of session and this is clean up and it could be here or in technical correction or that we think that this policy is needed and did not put that in the conference report Thank you Representative Macon. Mr. Speaker may I continue on the Bill. The gentleman has the floor to debate the conference report.   Thank you Representative Macon. I appreciate your honesty in answering that last question I would argue that, I don't think that this section fits into this Bill. It also seems to me that given the context of the sales expansion, sales tax expansion in the budget. The part of what is happening in this provision is we're giving a very attractive sales feature to car dealerships who want to sell a service contract to someone whose buying a new car because they're going to be able to sit down with that person, and say, look if you buy a sales contract, it's going to save you 7% sales tax right of the back, and I certainly believe that people have the rights to buy those contracts. I believe the dealerships have the right to sell those contracts. I just don't like it I think this provision has maybe an intended, maybe unintended consequence of setting up a favorable condition for the dealerships and hurting small amount of pope business who might be providing those types of service activities otherwise. Thank you Mr. Speaker. For what purpose does the lady from Mecklenburg representative Cunningham arise? Thank you Mr. Speaker to speak to the conference report. The lady has the floor to speak to the conference report. You know sometimes I think we're not ready to handle the truth really. Can we really handle the truth? I could support incentives if I could see the district impact for my constituency. We did not give small businesses an incentive as a matter of fact we just went upon sales taxes. Essential services that is what I call them, those are ones you have to pay, pay your light bill if you have to get your roof fix you've got to pay an extra tax now. so we did that. If a company receives an incentive came in told me that they're going to give people in my district 200-400 jobs because that is the primary thing we're supposed to be doing is creating jobs in North Carolina. If somebody knocked on my door and said representative Caniham, I got two to 400 jobs in your district, your voters. I click it quick click it. People residing in zip code 28213, 28215 zip code 28205. They're not getting those jobs. Even when Shikita came and when that many people came out of my district and went to Shikita and then they shut down and left, because they were failing I support fairness, and I don't see fairness in doing the incentives. I really don't. I'm not going to say whether I'm going to vote for them or not, but I'm just going to state my case. Unemployment in state of North Carolina is still above 5%, and it's still  above the national average. College graduate, minorities. African American are not getting these jobs. I'm concerned. We're using tax payer's dollars for incentives, but we're not ecobly distributing throughout our community. Companies have to bring a significant amount on the employees with them because we don't have a trained population of workers to go into those jobs. Can we hurry the truth. My people are not getting those jobs, I don't hate incentives and I don't love them of what I would like to see, we have low expectations for giving out incentives. 1, 750 jobs why wouldn't go 2, 000 jobs? If we were to give them and the senate has. If the lady would suspense, for what purpose does the gentleman from Mecklenburg representative Jeter arise? To see if representative Cunningham would yield for a question. No sorry I will not. She does not yield the lady has the floor to continue the debate. So I'm concerned, can we handle the truth the people in that district are

not getting those high paying $80, 000 to $90, 000 jobs. If it's going to come in here 50% of that company going to bring their people with them. I would like to see us invest in the people in the state on North Carolina by pretraining them and making it be a mandate in order to get an incentive. And that they start looking at and start thinking about the people that are not getting those jobs, that are in low economic striving areas just like the rural areas, just because we make them and we are a metropolitant area and a urban doesn't mean we don't have poverty pockets sitting in our capital. We just so I still haven't decided but I just want to say to you, can you handle the truth thank you. for what purpose does the gentleman from Robeson representative Graham arise? Speak a second time on the congress report. The gentleman has the floor to debate on the report. You know when I left home this morning I came to rally though the people business and I think what I'm here to do is do our people business, and I feel we have obviously focused on both sides of this issue and I have no problem with that and I respect individuals who will who have other opinions of this bill but my role here is to represent first my constituency in Robeson and the people of the said North Carolina, that's what I came here to do and that''s what I'm going to do today. When I look at this legislation I see winners I see our teachers winning, these are our tax payers dollars that we're talking about it's my hope that in future legislation our taxpayers will benefit from this legislation and I want to make it very clear I'm voting for this legislation because I feel that there's an opportunity for our teachers to win, our retirees to win our roads to win our seniors, our disabled to benefit from jobs in North Carolina, benefit from the tax revenue and that's what I expect and that's why I will vote for this legislation, it's tax payers money and I hope as the body we will see these revenue is used wisely and is used to benefit the citizens of our state and we have a watchful eye on that so again I'm here to promote jobs and I think this is a way to do that. Thank you Mr. Speaker. For what purpose does the lady from Wake, Representative Avila arise? To ask a question to the bill sponsor. Would the lady from Wilson yield to the lady from Wake? Yes. She yields. Thank you Mr. Speaker Representative Martin, when we do a JDIG incentive package, is it just the JDIG part of it alone that's that incentive to them or could there be others included from local or county, city, municipal? Thank you Representative Avila, it's typically a combination of components, I think Representative Conrad talked about this or some other folks about local government in our local economic development group and the different pieces that they bring to the table, in fact maybe Representative Alexander who brought that up and all the different pieces and their matches that are required. Now when a company applies for the JDIG grant the Commerce Department goes through an analysis and they have some modelling tools that require a return on investment where they look at, what the local components are and they look at what this business is bringing to the table. Some question came earlier about there is no wage requirement while in the modelling tool there is a wage requirement, it's not in the statute but it's included in the return on investments that is calculated of what type of jobs because in certain industries have a much larger multiplier effect so that the manufacturing company and they put that into the tool, certain people, certain wages, and what other service jobs and the impact on the community will be in personal property tax, so to answer your question it's not the only piece but all of the pieces are included in the model and state make a determination that this would have a positive return on what we're giving away is less than what we're benefiting. Thank you, I'd like to speak to the conference report Speaker. The lady has the floor to debate the conference report. What we're discussing here in this bill is the cost to the state, we get a lot of other effects

from going with incentives from the locals. I can give you a couple of examples from our a past we brought apple to the state with a very generous package the locals slashed their real estate taxes and their property taxes. So how is that going to help them fund the schools and the roads and everything needed for the influx of workers coming. Google got breaks for 30 years, so many years are they doing without local tax incentives or package requirements to fund that as well. Apple also like the fact that we've got a lot of cheap energy, they didn't like the fact that it's dirty. So they're cut off, the tree and about 300 acres around the Mayden North Carolina area to put in a huge solar farm. So I think we need to ask ourselves when we start to to go with this incentive packages, what do we get that we might not be expecting? I'm voting no and I would ask that you vote no. For what purpose does the gentleman from Wake representative Stan rise? I get to speak a second time. The gentleman has the floor to debate the for the second time. Members of the house this will be very short, representative Browley asked me to correct the statement in our dialogue, you remember I asked  him why the finance chair opposed an amendment that will require CEOs to actually say that the application was true, and he reminded me that it was probably the proponents of the bill that opposed it rather than the finance chairs although there's some overlap, and I'm glad to make that correction. For what purpose does the lady from Wilson representative Farmer-Butterfield rise? Thank you Mr. Speaker, I'm rising again to ask your support for conference report. The lady has the floor to debate the conference report a second time. Thank you over $2 billion to fund its reform in North Carolina, versus state taxes has been used. Can we handle the truth? 40, 000 plus new jobs, can we handle the truth. Health coverage accessible to over 500, 000 North Carolinian's excuses, excuses, excuses, they only satisfy the man who makes them. Thank you. For what purpose does the gentleman from representative Jordan arise? Debate the conference report. The gentleman has the floor to debate the conference report. Thank you Mr. Speaker I hope that my comments have not been set before. Let me begin with I've heard people talking about promoting jobs and that's why we came to the general assembly. Absolutely, promoting jobs is important JJ promotes jobs which is why we're discussing in relation to this bill, but of course JJ promotes jobs chosen by an economic investment committee consisting five political appointees. In fact the law says the decision of that committee can be made with three members. With that said I'm so surprised by some of the actions of some of my colleagues. Some of my colleagues will fight tooth and nail against cuts in overall corporate income and personal income taxes because I guess they don't see this as incentives for anything, anything good that is, however they will jump at getting incentives directly to companies usually big ones, companies chosen by the three political appointees, finally Mr speaker I just want to point out that we've just heard that these JJ incentives are better than others because we're just giving back withholding already paid by these companies. and that's a good idea. In fact that's great. In fact it's so great why don't we consider providing incentives to all companies. It's just money coming from what they have already paid why should it cost us? But then what would those political appointees do with themselves? And what would the political class do if it could take credit. To vote random Corporate Welfare incentives. For what purpose does the. For what purpose does

the gentleman from Durham representative Mitchelle arise? To speak on the conference report. The gentleman has the floor to debate the conference report.  I haven't heard a lot said in here today about particularly not much about what else is in this bill that might be an anathema to a bunch of us, but let me tell you folks something the best incentive that we can offer any company wanting to come to this day is a good infrastructure, a good quality of life, a good education system, a good political life and a lot of things that you can't put money on you can't put money on but you can put money in, in order to make your investment in these other companies at a minimum. I think we are barking up the wrong tree, all that money you are talking about all those tax breaks you are giving all this companies coming in if we would just put them where we need to put them, if we would just booster our public education system, our higher education system if we would booster our infrastructure in these tier one and tier two counties. By putting money there the people will come, if you build a better miles track the people will come and so irrespective of the way you vote or the way you feel about this matter of incentives, the biggest incentives are what we portray to people on the outside that make them want to come and bring their businesses here. For what purpose does the gentleman from Brunswick, Representative Iler arise? To debate the conference report. The gentleman had the floor to debate the conference report. Thank you Mr. Speaker. I come from counties labelled a tier three and as long as you hang at the beach or live at the beach or whatever you probably qualify as a tier 3. You cross Halloway 17 and you get up near the area that Representative Hamilton represents county you'll find two empty industrial parks in 2012 and 13 we had two entire counties looking down and it was on their list is what kind of incentive package and what do we give them we gave them uncertainty like maybe we had the votes to pass something and may we didn't so we gave them uncertainty when big businesses don't like or little businesses like I was in don't like uncertainties so let's give some certainty and give some certainty folks you choose to work with and as much as I like to have utopia with no incentives we need to play the game thank you. For what purpose does the gentleman from Durham representative Hall arise? Speak on a conference report. The gentleman has the floor to debate the conference report. Thank you Mr. Speaker and ladies and gentlemen I'll be relatively short, I know a lot of latitude has been taken with a lot of platitude in here today so I guess I'll fall right in with that tradition we established so far, and we got, it seems we have some television on because when we had 445 million extra Dollars surplus we decided we would not give that back to the people who paid the surplus we decided that we would give tax cuts to the citizens and I understand that those citizens were those who needed the tax cuts the least, but we did that and that we made that part of the budget, and now we've decided that we're going to do somethings just because we can do them and one of the things that we talk about creating jobs why would we more than double the amount of jobs that a small business would have to create to get any assistance we know the majority of the jobs we create are about small businesses yet still in this bill we say we're going to more than double going to make it two and a half times the number of jobs you have to create in order to get some assistance if you were to get some under this bill. So certainly job creation can't be the primary thing we're doing, and again I'm not here to try to change anybody's mind. I know that everyone has done the research in advance, and talked to the folks back at home and made the calculations of what personally suits their district, or maybe what helps the state overall and has done that analysis. So I'm not here to change anyone's mind I'm just here to remind how we separated this from our budget policy, and now we're singing in a different tune about how we value the people's money, how we're going to invest it and how we're going to create jobs. So I'm just here to remind, I'm not here to change your mind. So we decided not to pay

our teachers, but we want a well trained workforce, so that companies will come. We decided not to increase the wages of our state employees or give them retirement funds with the for them to exist, but now we say we're going to give money to companies to come here who will overlook all of that and that's probably not going to happen. They probably going to want to train workforce and that takes well trained instructors and administrators and people in the community who care. And so we're hustling backwards as they would say, we're doing the opposite of what we need to be doing. And for those rural areas, you know there was a some of you probably know him this guy named Willy Lynch, some of you know him. Lynch Some you all know Willie Lynch, some you need to get on your computer and look up Willie Lynch. Willie Lynch made a speech on the banks of the James river and his key thing was to talk about how do you divide people, so they cannot be successful? How do you divide them? Divide them by race, divide you should get this treatment if you're here, this treatment if you're there. If you make money here, we're going to take it and take it there. But in order for us to be successful though we have to divide you, we have to convince you that you're going to benefit because you hold someone else down because you all know the story about you can't hold a man down in a ditch unless you get down there with him. You all have heard that before, I can see a lot of attitude with platitudes, that's what we're going to do today. So what is the net benefit going to be to the state of North Carolina, we are talking about now versus the future what is the benefit going to be again I'm not here to change anybody's mind I know this bill would not have come out on the floor unless the votes were there to pass. I'm just here to remind how the switch has been flipped when we went from the budget to the incentives and how now all of a sudden as a result of this we're going to continue the taxes and even more in this on the folks who can pay the least and we started out with 445 million in surplus taxes revenues, that's what we said now. And now in this bill we're giving it away, after we already added additional taxes though, those who least can afford it, denied pay raises to our teachers denied the cost of living, retirement payment to our state workers, who could have gotten that off their firm just being managed in the state treasurer residue you could at least have gotten one to one and a half percent. The chair would ask the gentleman to keep his remarks relevant to the bill at hand not to the budget bill. Thank you Mr. Speaker and I think the other item to recognize is that this is part of the budget bill, because again you understand that if this does not pass there are parts of the budget that will not come into play. So I'm not sure who constructed that it's causing me and the speaker confusion about whether it's related to the budget bill or not, so I'm not sure who wrote and said let's hold 117 hostage to the budget bill or hold the budget bill hostage to what you do later on when we extort you on 117, I'm not sure who did that to create that confusion but they certainly did us a disservice, so as you look at it again I'm not here to change any minds, I just want us to understand what we're doing. We're saying we'll get benefit overtime without strengthening our economy, without strengthening our infrastructure, without strengthened universities and public schools but we're going to get a net benefit over time I don't think so, I think the states who have their trained workforce, the states that have invested in their infrastructure, throughout their state not just in the urban metropolitan areas they're going to be out to get us when it comes to locating business. So again when you look down the list and the studies have been done with the the corporations in order for you to get to that last box to check off to say it's about the incentive, you've got to past all these other things that were either defunded fail the fan of fail the value and when it comes to that, you get to the end and nobody is willing off on it just because when you go behind that door we don't know what those companies are really getting offered there's no one to tell you what another state really offer versus what North Carolina offers so you know in this process we need game proving if we are going to be in it and we need to stop getting soccer punched every time and getting used in the process by people saying North Carolina you make a bid and we'll get someone else to bid even more and you can never verify it. So I'm not here to change any minds, I just want

to remind you about what we've done. For what purpose does the lady from Forsyth Representative Terry rise? To debate the conference report Mr. Speaker. Lady has the floor to debate the conference report. I rise because it has been a very educational experience for me to just listen to the debate, and in the process of listening to the debate, the word incentives comes to mind so often when we talk about things that are associated with job development, and of course awarding for someone said losers, and winners, or losers, or what have you. But in my way of thinking I appreciate the education, and the debate that has taken place here, but let's just change the, it's a semantics issue in my mind. Instead of incentives, why not give it the name opportunity? The Opportunity Fund. I think we funded some education pieces that called themselves opportunities facilities and then perhaps it would not be quite so difficult for people to wrap their brains around it because I was having difficulty understanding the original source even of the JDIG funds and I know how that works as we managed to try and ferry out money. So I would just simply suggest, I know that it's here to be voted upon today, but as the next round let's begin to think about what the wording in the semantics resonates within the population of North Carolina and just figure out the right words. Thank you so much, I was simply saying vote not for incentives but vote for opportunity [xx] speak on the conference report Mr. Speaker. Gentleman has the floor to debate the conference report. Thank you Mr. Speaker I want to ask just briefly to Phillip and I need to offer an apology. And the apology goes out to this is the North Carolina where you are self employed and you operate your own business, where you have one person take in 5, 20, 50 or maybe opportunity with numbers 50 and up or 100 and up, maybe you trade on the New York stock exchange. Maybe you've been extremely fortunate and you've decide to do all of that inside of North Carolina. Well if you are listening out there or perhaps some of those people sitting in this room today, you've heard things about relative to business as being obscene, what's the word when you have a, knowing bad people, we're looking into backgrounds, wanting this evil incentives and business is bad and then what made me to stand up to speak is when my good friend Representative Stam stood up and said that led you to believe that CEOs may be untrustworthy and that coming form a lawyer that's what led me to stand up. Ladies and gentlemen, I now all of use in here support every one of our businesses in North Carolina because businesses are people and that's what we're here for. Anyone out there has a job, that's looking for a job, has it because of the company or person or an individual that believes strong enough that they invest in themselves and invests others, and what we can do to get North Carolina moving ahead of where we currently are, I think the best is for North Carolina I support them and I also the maintain of the tempo would drop and some type of bad light has it some have a chamber of [xx]. The chamber is a group of business which are a group of people and I don't understand the relationship there is. I just want to stand and apologize and let people out there know that if you're in business, if you work yourself, if you hire one, five, 10 if you're 100 we support you, we want you here in North Carolina. If you're not here and if you're here in North Carolina we want you to continue to excel. Thank you Mr. Speaker. For what purpose does the lady from Wilson, Representative Martin rise? To debate the bill a final time. Lady has the floor to debate the conference report a second time. Thank you Mr. Speaker. Colleagues I just rise to thank everyone for the participation in the debate and I am very hopeful because I think we have a lot of things in common, and we heard a lot about the differences in philosophy into reality and what's happening in the ground where we want to be, where we hope to be, all the investments that we're talking about making in workforce, and what it takes, and that this PC incentives box that we check that's not what we want to be the most important thing attracting companies in North Carolina, but I think

that it is important right now and it is just one part of our strategy, and with that Mr. Speaker I would appreciate your support on a yes vote for the conference report and give some certainty and keep North Carolina open for business and let's continue the trend that we've been on of growing jobs by continuing good companies. Thank you. Further discussion, further debate? If not the question before the House is the adoption of the conference report to House Bill 117 on it's second reading. Those in favor will vote aye, those opposed will vote no. The clerk will open the vote. Is Representative Whitmire on the floor? The clerk will lock the machine and record the vote. 84 having voted in the affirmative and 24 in the negative the conference report to House Bill 117 passes it's second reading and will remain on the calendar. House Bill 372 actually before we do that, Representative Lewis is recognized to send forth the committee report. Representative Louis. [xx] so the house committee report. House bill 272, [xx] substitute [xx] original bill. Calendar and member the actually original Bill unfavorable calendar Committee Substitute Calendar, and members the Bill has changed it is now the Speaker's Appointments Bill 2015 is their any objection to this Bill being added to today's calendar? Hearing no objection, the Bill is counted for today. [xx] Speaker be recognized? For what purpose does the gentleman from Durham Representative Hall rise? Just to speak on the calendaring which we consent to and agree to just for the perfect record. The gentleman is recognized to speak to a point of personal privilege? Thank you Mr. Speaker regarding the calendar of the Speaker's Appointment Bill again it is the traditional appointment of people on that Bill did get had in finance excuse me in rules and was unanimously reported out and so we can send it to it being put on the calendar today thank you Mr. Speaker. Thank you. House Bill 272 the clerk will read. Representative B Richardson House Bill 272 a Bill to be entitled an act to appoint persons of various public office upon the recommendation of the Speaker of the House of Representatives enacts. For what purpose does the gentleman from Harnett Representative Lewis rise? Mr. Speaker the Bill before us. The gentleman is recognized to debate the Bill. I apologize Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker the Bill before us is the traditional Speaker's Appointment Bill that names people to various posts throughout the state, I know of no opposition and would ask for the body support Thank you Mr. Speaker. Further discussion, further debate if not the question before he house is the passage of house bill 272 on it's second reading those in favor vote aye, those opposed will vote no, the clerk will open the vote. Representative, clerk will lock the machine to record the vote 108 having voted in the affirmative and none in the negative house bill 272 passes second reading and will without objection be read a third time. General assembly of North Carolina act. Further discussion, further debate, if not the question for the house is the passage of senate bill, strike that, house bill 272 on it's third reading those in favor will say aye, aye Those opposed no the ayes have it house bill 272 passes it's third reading to be sent to the senate by special messenger House bill 372 the clerk will read [xx] the difference between the Senate house representative house bill 372, a bill to be entitled an act to transform and reorganize North Carolina's medicaid North Carolina health choice programs to revive plans for oversight in administration of the state wide health information exchange network to increase Medicaid rates primary care physicians, and to continue Medicaid primary care case management. Senate appropriations base budget committee substitute adopt 18 15 sixth commission in gross 1115 submit the following report empower Senate appropriation base budget committee substitute [xx]. 1015 sixth edition in growth aid. 1115 substitute proposed conference committee H372-PCCS40515-TR-3. The conferee is recommended

for the senate and house representatives without the support conferees [xx] report sector number 17, 2015. Conferees from Senate, Senators highest chairs, Senators paid chairs. Senators Tucker, Rachel, Crowick[sp?, Ranger[sp?], McKissick, Brown, Apodaca, Jackson come for house of Representatives, Senator Lamberth, Chair. Representatives McGrady, Dobson, Abeler, Louis, Haines, Mulorn, Jones and [xx]. For what purpose does the gentleman from Presice[sp?], Representative Lamberth rise? Move that the house concur with House Bill to the conference report. The gentleman is recognized for a motion, the gentleman has moved that the house do now concur with the adoption of the conference report the House Bill 372, the gentleman now has the floor to debate the motion. Thank you Mr. Speaker and colleagues. Medicaid is a joint partnership between the federal government and each state, it was designed over 50 years ago to protect some of our most vulnerable citizens, our children, disabled, blind or others who are faced with an unfortunate economic hardship medicated sole donation as a safety net for those needing health care as health care markets change over the last twenty years evolving a very sophisticated integrated health systems medicated North Carolina has tried to keep pace with the changing model of care, as the demographics change North Carolina, so have the budgetary commitments to this program past legislatures have wrestled with Medicaid budgets that have grown over the past decades we've had two recessions since the roll over to a new century and medicaid is designed to be counter cyclical it expands when the economy become slower and Will loose their jobs while in truth today we all know what the unemployment levels have been since then in 2000 about 1.2 million North Carolinians were enrolled in Medicaid we're closer to 1.9 million today during this time period North Carolina experienced one the nation's fastest rate of population growth and a proportion of North Carolina children living in poverty increase from 19th in 1998 to 46 in 2014. We ranked 46 in infant mortality, and we can do better. Medicaid responded in the way in which it was designed to meet the needs as a safety nail. Medicaid growth was occurring at the same time health systems were expanding with new drug treatments, and technology greatly adding to the cost of healthcare while extending years to [xx] life through what often seems miraculous treatments and cures for some of our most challenging diseases. So as this perfect storm was growing, our state took over the individual counties portion Medicaid, economy was struggling and more people were living in poverty. Past legislators took a number of proactive steps to contain the increasing cost including the reshaping of the behavioral health services by capitation of services under regional LME MCO. Also establishing a proven medical home model known as community care in North Carolina. That helped better manage care while utilizing proven protocols to reduce cost and adding an assessment funds for hospital providers to bring payment levels up to their cost to care for Medicaid. While many have suggested that Medicaid is broken, if you look at the power beneficiary calls, controls put in place have actually resulted in per member calls being lower. While the drastic increase in the moment being the primary culprit to the increase in Medicaid budget demands. The cost of lone have not been what has driven me to reform Medicaid. It is the the desire to lead the nation in a reform plan that focuses on quality, access, patient and provider satisfaction and efficient delivery of care. A model of care that breaks down the sorrows between providers. That gets beneficiaries in the right place when they need help that has providers working together and coordinating care from birth to end of life. Quality of care can be measured and best performers rewarded by the focus shift to managing care across the sorrows with an emphasis on healthcare not sick care. This reform plan is a blend that allows the beneficiaries slake form up to three prepaid health plans at a state level. EIther a provider led entity referred to as a PLE or a commercial plan. Well geographically up to 10 PLEs that will operate regionally across the state.

The plan requires that federal approvals through a variety of wavers, because this time frame is unknown the conversion to prepaid health plans will occur 18 months after federal approvals given the market time to prepare and adjust, the plan includes a concept of an innovation center to help providers and beneficiaries during the transition, it protects our essential providers by requiring their participation in networks, it provides protection to providers to ensure the legacy is not pulled out from them on rates. It establishes a medical laws ratio of the 88% directed to direct patient care. It establishes under state control a robust health information exchange and creates a transitional reserve as we move from the traditional fee for service to a full risk capitation. While this plan might not have all the aspects you might have preferred it is a very good framework that results solves the reform conflict and moves North Carolina forward just as many other states are already doing. With the folks on quality access, patient satisfaction and budget predictability North Carolina immediately jumped to the forefront in the nation as a model of care with the right focus it is unfortunate the media has characterized this plan as privatized or medicaid plan this is not privatized medicaid the state retains control over medicaid the state sets the rates defines the benefits determine and accepts eligibility risk sets the performance goal and retains oversight with road best HIE plan, well I can go on and on I ask for your support on this plan as for a journey that require years to implement and adjustmrents waiting to be made along the way by this general assembly, please join me in voting green to move this plan forward. Thank you. [xx] does the lady from Mackenburg Representative [xx] rise? To ask Representative Lambeth a question please. Does the gentlemen from Forsyth yield to the lady from Mecklenburg? He yields I do, thank you my question is, will these entities be able to change any of the optional services without coming back to the legislature for any kind of approval? Great question all the benefit level will be the same and all the eligibility criteria will be the same, the general assembly will have oversight and can change only eligibility if it's requirement. The secretary of HHS has broader responsibilities under this plan, the secretary could change the benefit level, but as you know it takes months to go through a state plan amendment, you get federal approvals, and if there were any concerns about any benefit level that the agency would change, the legislatures can step in and deal with that, the benefits will be the same all across the state regardless of whether it's a commercial plan or a PLE plan. So assuming, Does the lady wish to ask an additional question? Follow up I'm sorry. And does the gentleman yield to an additional question? I do. He yields. So I'm assuming that you're saying that they can not change the optional  services because North  Carolina does have a lot of optional services that we offer, so are you saying DHHS could change those? Yes ma'am you're correct, the PLE or commercial plan could not change the benefit level eliminating optional services so we're eliminating any other services without the approval at HHS which will also trigger a change in the plan, which will trigger a state planned amendment with the federal folks. follow up. Does the gentleman yield to an additional question? Yes sir. He yields. Could you point me to where it is in the bill? I do trust you I just want to see. As you know it's a long bill. Yes. Another staff on the floor that might Jeniffer. The chair will grant staff access to the floor for the member. Thank you. For what purpose does the Meclenburg Representative Rob rise? I just want to say he can get away from me on it but I do want to see it. Thank you. Thank you. For what purpose does the gentleman from Wake representative Dollar rise? To speak on the conference report. The gentleman has the floor to debate the conference report. Thank you Mr. Speaker, members of the house and I rise today to oppose the

conference report for house bill 372, but before I lay out my reasons why I'm voting no I do want to thank Representative Lambert for all of the hours, days, weeks of hard work that he's put in on this bill, Representative Lambert has brought diligence and faithfulness to a very, very difficult set of circumstances in my opposition today to the congressman's report is a no way a reflection on Representative Lambert's good work and I will point out several points that he has championed in this bill that are very good and that is protection for the LMCO's as you know that's for our public manage care from mental health and behavioral health retaining community care of North Carolina intact at least until the capitated contract start which will be probably a minimum of four years, the requirement for after 58 insurance protections for providers and consumers the requirements for a single judge formulary as well as caveyard for demo services, and cave yards for those who are due the eligible voters, who are eligible both for medicare and medicare services. These are significant and important features, but they do not outweigh the fundamental flaw in this bill which is the introduction of commercial insurance management in our medicate program. First insurance HMOs have failed repeatedly in North Carolina, they were tried in the hospitals down in Mecklenburg County a couple of decades ago they failed, they failed in the mental health system a very few years ago, and they also failed in the state health plan back in the 80s and 90s every time leaving problems for this state to fix and not worry that maybe the situation here a few years down the road the challenges that we faced in Medicaid have not been the fault of the doctors and the dentist and the pharmacist and the hospitals and the nursing homes and all the other providers. People will tell you that we have spent two billion dollars fixing Medicaid over the last six years, that's true, but what they fail to tell you is that we took back a billion dollars out of that system, and when we put in that two billion dollars the money went to a fixed at administrative problems, money owed to the federal government loss of state and federal funding for the program, the truth is that Medicaid claims cost in North Carolina has actually gone down over the last five years while the program grew by over 200, 000 recipients. This is a fact and let me just repeat it because it is true. The truth is the actual Medicaid claims cost in North Carolina went down while the program grew by over 200000 recipients. According to the Caesar family Foundation, North Carolina ranks 42nd, yes, 42nd in cost for full time enrollees. It is by far and away performing better than the majority of manage care states in this country. And North Carolina's cost per enrollee are also dropping. Let me just give you one statistic. From 2010 to 2014 we actually a 9% decrease in the per member per month cost in Medicaid. In the past three years the Medicaid program has been in the black on a cash basis per $60 million in 2014, $130 million this year, and is projected to be in the black based on the rebase numbers for 2016 and 2017. We need reform in North Carolina that is based on caring for citizens and not for a group of stockholders. All physicians and hospitals and so many other providers that I've named deserve the opportunity to reform Medicaid. They have a great record of controlling the actual Medicaid spent in North Carolina, and that is where I think they have earned the right to reform this program. We don't need to go down the insurance path of Virginia that has a far more expensive program than we have in North Carolina or South Carolina, where their General Assembly this year was looking at withholding money from the Insurance HMOs because of poor quality of the

care for their citizens they've had complains all over their state, do you hear complaints from Medicaid patients here in North Carolina? It's very rare, it's very rare indeed or Tennessee when you look at Tennessee a decade or two ago they went through 10 years trying to figure out Tenncare, and when you look at one of the most recent states Florida with cost over runs of over $400 million request for double digit increases going to those manage care companies barely a year into operation. Other articles that just came out within the last month, where they are going to be requesting another $500 million. If we want competition a lot of folks talk about competition, let it be with the provider of the services. Why more than double? The administrative cost we are currently paying by adding middlemen between our doctors and patients. I just don't see where the value is. It is a fact North Carolina medicate, yields one of the low cost programmes in the nation and our patient are satisfied with the care they receive, no one talks about this, but some two million North Carolinians who receive medicaid services and their families have high consumer satisfaction where are the views of the patients and the families in this process, over the last five years several public hearings have been held and universally we have have doctors, dentists, nurses, patients, pharmacists, therapists, families healthcare providers of every stripe all across the state who have spoken very loudly, very clearly with a unified voice and they have said these, they have said let us have the opportunity to reform the healthcare system, let us put North Carolina ability and knowhow into crafting a system that would be truly innovative, a system that rewards the health care outcomes. Unfortunately my friends, those voices have largely been ignored. I do know that this is the beginning of a process, it's the beginning of a seven to eight-year process, there will be many more bills, many more amendments, plans, reports and waivers yet to be written. more general assemblies and governors will way in before this process is over, and I hope and in doing so we will take the opportunity to craft a better solution, I'm disappointed today because we have had the opportunity to do something truly unique an opportunity to build on a nationally recognized system of care, And there's one other final item that is particularly troubling to me about this process and that is that there is a provision in the state budget that we passed last week, a poison pill, that provides the community care of North Carolina's contract and the patients centered medical home model will be terminated in March of next year unless this bill before you passes today. In my book that's Legislative Strong Army you could use other terms, and no matter where members stand on this conference report I do hope that in the future we as a body need to reject these tactics in the future. Under these circumstance and for the reasons that I've laid I will be voting no on the conference report, and again I deeply respect all of the tremendous work that Chairman Lambeth has brought to the table as well as others. But I do believe that it is dangerous and unwise and uncalled for, for us to put these types of provisions in law. Members should be free to express their views and devote their conscience, and again I hope that in the future we will have more opportunities to take a look at our program, take a good look at it, to understand all of the professionals all across the state who have worked so very hard on our behalf and on behalf of two million North Carolinian's and give them the first opportunity the first chance to truly reform to be innovative, and to deliver the goals that we all want which are not only stability and cause quality in healthcare so that we can make lives in North Carolina healthier that's the way you'll control cost long and that's the way we improve the lives of our citizens now and in the next generation. For what purpose does the lady from Orange Representative Insko rise? To debate the motion. The lady has the floor to debate the motion. Thank you Mr. Speaker. Members just because this Conference

Report is better than the original Senate Bill is no good reason to vote for it. I talks a lot to my friends and family outside the state about North Carolina exceptionalism. We hear about American exceptionalism since I have lived here 50 years I've grown to really believe that North Carolina has a special exeptionalism. We have done significant steps through our history to actually advance and promote and support the least among us, as I believe we are taught to do in the bible. One of those recently was Smart Start, we led the nation in developing early childhood education. Another one was Community Care Network of North Carolina. It was developed by by the providers who take care of the patients. They wanted to do a better job. They partnered with the state. It's the kind of public private partnership I thought we all supported. There's no reason, to do away with that program or to compromise it now there's no reason for us to go outside the state groups, they do not know better than what we are doing this conference report will increase the cost of Medicaid, it will. If we don't change it, it will. I do hope that as this goes into effect that we will watch carefully, be alert, learn from our behavioral health mistakes learn that we don't know what's going to happen next year this year and how we are going to have to adjust are as Representative Dollar has already pointed out, we had the lowest rate of growth in the nation in our medicaid program. Our cost per person has actually been reduced, we have the lowest administrative cost, we have the highest rate of provider participation are our standard mainstream providers, participate in our medicaid program at a higher rate than almost any other state in the nation. In other states in the nation provider do not want to provide care to medicaid patients. They can't find enough physicians to provide care to their medicaid patients. North Carolina has a reputation of taking care of it's own with it's own providers. We have CCNC has helped us reduce our hospital admission rate and focused on wellness. I want you to vote against the conference report, we can do better but even if all of the things I said weren't true one of the things that's wrong with this bill is it doesn't have a minimum provider rate. That means that we don't have control over our provider rates unless we step in. The General Assembly has always set provider rates because we have always wanted our provider rate to be higher enough to keep our providers in the community. when you lower the provider rates do we think we save money? We don't save money, when we lower provider rates the utilization goes up. It's smart to keep your provider rates high this bill does not guarantee that our provider rates will not go down. In addition even though Representative Lambeth assured us that we the optional services and we do have one of the best optional service packages in the nation. On Section 18 of the bill, this is the old which no provision in the Medicaid State Plan or in the Medicaid Waiver may expand or otherwise alter the scope or purpose of the Medicaid programs from that authorized by law enacted by the General Assembly, that sentence is now gone. It means that optional services can be eliminated and provider rates can be set, changed by the department. I think that's a really big loss, I think that the time frame is too short I think we've given our providers and we've pitted them against commercial care, companies that have been in business for many years, it's not a level playing field, it's not fair playing field, so I urge you to vote against the Conference Report and I urge us all to be very watchful as we go forward, thank you. For what purpose does the gentleman from Jones rise? The Speaker would that

be the gentleman from Rockingham Representative Jones? Yes sir I, you want to speak on the conference report?   I would like to debate the conference report. You have the floor. Thank you ladies and gentlemen in the house, so this is huge. I hope that I hope that this doesn't goes understated as this session winds down. And I know there are a lot of issues important that we're finishing up before we close down the session, the anonymity of what this represents, and I would submit that while this is not a perfect bill the perfect is not an enemy of the good, and it is a win-win win bill. It's a win for the recipient of medicaid services in the state, because I believe it clearly incentivise better health outcomes. I believe So we and ultimately for the providers in this state, that are protected, there are limits placed on administrative costs, and I know that I and everyone of the primary sponsors of this bill supported the provider led entities that are kept in this bill. With all due respect I know that Representative Dollar who I have tremendous respect for and has been a champion on this issue for many years, pointed out the commercial managed care, and I know that's troublesome many, but I also know that there has been a provision that does create a plain field that I believe is a fair plain field, that keeps the provider led entities in every region of the state. It does allow them to compete with those commercial managed care, and it also requires a commercial managed care have a limited overhead expense, and I believe that, that will be something that the providers in the state will be happy about. And Mr. Speaker. Yes Representative, May I ask Representative Jones a question? I would be happy to yield with the conclusion of my remarks. Thank you. It is a huge win for the taxpayers of this state the folks that are actually footing the bill for these services. I think everybody here that has been here for any period of time knows that for years, and years, and years Medicaid has been considered the budget pack man, that eats up all the dollars, that people on this chamber in light of being [xx] on many, many other things and we could probably have 120 opinions in this chamber about how the money could be used but I think we can all agree that we would like to see savings come from this Medicaid program and that we would like to see some budget certainty, and this bill does provide for that. Now a lot of people have have worked for many many months during this session to do something that we have wanted to do in the state for many years. And they deserve to be commended that we've been able to come to an agreement between the house and the senate who had very different plans, very different ideas, and I believe that the stakeholders from different groups that I've heard from, nobody thinks he's perfect, but there's a lot of support out there as has been said by the opponents and the proponents. It's one step, but it's a huge step, and it's a step that I believe that we need to take to that this session and not continue this can down the years as we have had hopes for many years. I hope that you will join and passing this bill and voting green and Mr. Speaker I will refer to the lady from Orange if she has questions. Representative Insko. To ask Representative Johns a question, I yield, Representative Johns yield, [xx] Representative Johns you are a dentist I believe and dentists are curved out of this package I believe. Yes dentistry is buy and large on an outpatient basis and dentistry that's performed in a hospital setting is not curved out, but outpatient dentistry is curved out. It is curved down in several states and there are good reaons for that, a demo practise is a very different model than the provider models that we are talking about, that comprise 98% of medicaid expenditures, so yes, dental is as far as the outpatient services is there is a curve out. Follow up. Does the gentleman yield? I yield. And so that really means that dentists won't be managed under the managed care organizations or even under the provider led organizations

they would still be directly working with the department, the division of medical assistance or whatever it's going to be called in the future. A family dental practice will not be a capitated service and as you say will not being subjected under this bill, but again I would point out to you and anyone that would look at that provision that the reason that such practices are curved out in several different states is that it really is a very different animal, and a capitated model would not work very well in a small family dental practice like it might work in a provider network or you might have hundreds of thousands or even more than a million potential patients so it's a very different animal when you talk about capitating something as small as a dental practice. Thank you. For what purpose does the gentlemen from Haywood rise? to speak on the conference report. You have the floor to speak on the conference report, Again it's hard to refer to this as reform for me I would think of it as more a regression because the problems we have in North Carolina for populations that are uncovered which you would think if you were going to reform medicaid you would cover them, but this does not speak and all it's silent on expansion medicaid expansion. We just talked about JDIG some 500 million where we are leading behind 10 times that 5 billion by not expanding Medicaid so we're subjecting our real hospitals, our providers across this state to the transformation of healthcare which would be a good thing to capitation, and health outcomes and keeping people healthy but without resources and leading half a million of our citizens out after having paid for them. This is a huge job issue. Representative Farmer-Butterfield mentioned the jobs that we would lose by not doing this, this adds to the cuts to our rural hospitals it doesn't solve them it their's no reform here in a progressive way to help our rural hospitals we lose jobs, we lose peoples healthcare uncovered We choose again I'll just say we choose not the North Carolina solution of a medical home which we have led the nation with in Medicaid reform real reform for better outcomes for lower cost, for higher access, we don't choose that, we harbor that, we obstruct that, instead we put in these HMOs but are proven not successful but proven failures in every, every aspect of large population healthcare coverages. It's not reform it's regression this is a wills real step backwards for North Carolina, the citizens need to know what's happening. There will not be better satisfaction, there will not be lower cost, there will not be better health care in the rural areas, there will not be better outcomes. So to call this reform is to misunderstand the intent. It's anything but. Mr. Speaker? Yes Representative Blust. I rise to see if Representative Queen will yield for a question? I will Representative Blust. Representative Queen as I understand the bill, there is going to be provider led organizations competing with the insurance led organizations all over. If what you are saying is true and what some earlier people who said is true about the has some advantages, won't this competition be one sided won't the providers just

run the insurance latter organizations off the plane field and show us once and for all that is the model, If what you are saying is true be showing it's true in the near future? It's a little hard to predict where you set up a situation that is driven by the HMOs that 12% administrative cost right off the top is an HMO they'd like 15, 12 what it was comprised, the provider load organizations are half that, less than half that, so why start off doubling your administrative cost just to bring in a bunch of an organization that's proved to be a low performing in every metric we're trying to fix and we're going to stir up, it's going to be pandemonium and chaos across a whole sector, healthcare sector that's already in deep transition and change. We're not funding it, it's, unfunded mandates across the to local hospitals and health care providers, is not coordinated expand medicaid bring our citizens' five billion back into our state and reform could be possible, that includes the people who aren't being served and create the jobs that every one of our districts need. We talked about economic development matters on the last JDIG discussion, for every million dollars we deny from the expansion we lose 20 jobs, 10 primary jobs and 10 secondary jobs. That's 100, 000 jobs that would be a lot that we paid for, our citizens have pledged allegiance to the flag they've paid their taxes this legislature and this governor are denying it to come back. That would be a huge, 10 times more than JDIG would just passed. It's 10 times more, 10 times more in every one of our districts there's not a member in here that wouldn't give 800 to 1000 new jobs in their district.  Mr. Speaker, May I ask a follow up? Representative you want to handle that?   I will thank you. Representative Queen you did everything but respond to the question you went off on some tangent might make a great presidential candidate some day. If it's true if you are assertions are true that the insurance led organizations will have this tremendous handicap, this 12.5% and the other dire predictions, and the provider led will only have 6% because they are doing so well, won't in the competition the providers beat the you know what out of out of the insurance companies? And we will know in a few years that hey the predictions were correct maybe we have to take some action, but won't the competition show us that if you're confident of your prediction. I am confident that the provider led organizations have a much truer track record and what we are doing here in your question I think is why would we do this? Why would we stir up everything like this jut for the heck of it? It's just in the healthcare it's changed for no purpose it, it's better to do nothing than something that's worth a flop. So it's not reform I can say that so do I know what this consequence be I know it will be fewer jobs, harder on a real hospitals which are stress my real hospitals are stressed, it won't be helpful without expansion I can say that for certain. So I encourage you to vote against this conference report and see if something better can be fond in North Carolina.

Mr speaker. Yes Representative. May I ask Representative Blest the gentleman from Guilford county a question? Representative Blest do you yield? I yield. Representative Blust I assume for your line of questioning of representative Queen and from what I know of you and other stands you've taken you believe that competition in our free market system is a helpful thing, do you think that this bill creates a free market system? Representative I've made no assertions here I was just asking a question I've heard the third or forth person assert that the provider organizations are so of doing so well that there's no need to have this other type organization at all and I was simply inquiring whether what's the have to compete that the one that do so well aren't going beat the pants off of the other one it would just seem like if you believe that you wouldn't be afraid of the competition because you knew your team was going to win. Follow up Mr. Speaker. I yield. Thank you believe Representative Blust I think you make a good presidential as well because I'm not sure I heard an answer to my question either representative Blust. Do you think this bill sets up a free market system for? No, as to my understanding of the bill and again I made no assumptions on it but my understanding of the bill is it's an hybrid model that both sides all parties agreed we can handle and we'll see whether competition is a good thing. I would think from the healthcare system know there is not a total free market in this either and my understanding is it says hybrid model that will lead to more competition. For what reason does the gentleLady from Wilson representative Farmer Butter-field rise? Thank you Mr speaker to ask the bill sponsor Representative Lambeth some questions. I yield. Representative Lambeth and looking at the report I'm I correct in assuming that jobs will be gained and other jobs will be lost, with this model? There will be new models of care that evolves so there will be an opportunity to create new jobs. As volumes transition out of high cost settings, like an emergency room which right now is overutilized by the medicaid population, those volumes will potentially have an impact on staffing within those clinical sites. So, yes, you're correct new jobs and some jobs that will have to be transformed. Do we know whether that, follow up. Do you yield for the follow up? Yes I do. We know whether not to do jobs, will offset the lost jobs or vice versa? Too early to tell remember this is about four years out, two and a half, four years out a lot of work to be done between now and then, and part of the review over this period of time will be to look at as the system changes and contracts what are those opportunities and where might people be at most risk? So it a little bit early to tell. Follow up. I yield. Next question helps save the nets, such as the public health department in the rural health centers. What impact will this have on them? The bill does have a provision called, the central providers. The central providers or the safety nets, like fairly qualified health centers the free clinics, overhead departments, there is a requirement that those essential providers will be in the networks because of the role that they play and the value they play in providing services to the low income and medicaid beneficiaries. Follow up. Follow up  I yield CC in C, how will they participate? Can they be appeal E or commercial plan or how will they fit into things, or is it it will be totally faced out. CCNC stays in place until the point in time we capitate and switch over at that point they will be contracting with the PLE's who want to buy their services. So rather than a single state contract, the community of North Carolina can contract with the PLEs or the commercial plan and serve and sell the services that they offer that way through the ministries support. I do believe the CCNC will have a role, they have

had a discussion about taking risks and also forming PLE but that has to be determined. One last question? I yield. Is it okay Mr. Speaker? /LMEs. Will they be exempt for the first four years and then what? the MMCOs which is behind the health network continues to operate as it is through the switcher [xx] and at that point they have an additional four years so after eight years life expectancy somewhere in the calm of the debate over reform will have the opportunity to settle it in the new system, there can be a reasonable unfair discussion about the role that they play and whether they should be rolled in the PLE commercial plants about 30% of the patients in those LMEMCOS have some type of physical condition or problem and so it's our healthy discussion have in the future as to whether they should be included because of their patients who have some type of physical condition. Thank you may I speak on the conference report? You have the floor to speak on the conference report. Ladies and gentlemen I'm going to be very brief, Representative Insko talked about the fact that this will increase the cost of medicaid that is very bothersome especially given the fact that we have avoided expanding medicaid, we could have had over 40, 000 jobs, over $2 billion in federal ponds to finance reform in North Carolina versus all tax dollars going to other states and to [xx] we could have had health coverage for over 500, 000 people. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm saying to you that what we sent to the senate was a better version of medicaid reform and indeed the more I listen to information, thanks to Representative Lambeth being so generous in providing knowledge and input on this report. The more I realize that the whole purpose of medicaid reform is being sabotaged based on what this report is providing too, I ask that you vote no. Thank you. For what purpose does the gentlelady from Mecklenburg Representative Cunningham rise? To speak on the conference report, you have the floor to speak on the conference report thank you Representative Lambeth I want to thank you for the work you did as well and Representative Dollar I appreciate what you said, but one thing that I'm concerned about in the Medicaid Reform is that, due to the role that the insurance companies are going to play in the management of the health care status of all the people in North Carolina that are all Medicaid. So I'm just going to do a little [xx] for you, Representative Connie was here. She's gone now, but I bet you if she was in here and you asked her about her heart surgeon, any type of major surgery you all probably would think about that too. I wouldn't want to be knocking on the door of an insurance company to get my heart serviced or to get approval of some of the services and they do, do that, but just because the least of these Some unemployed people, some people that haven't been employed for a while, and some people think it's an entitlement to have Medicaid services. some cases it may be, I don't think so in most cases, but if you think about, when, you're sick. And you might need to get that approval and might have to wait a week, might have to wait two weeks to get that insurance approval. You don't want to be that sick. wait on an approval if you got liver disease, or you got pancreatic cancer, if your heart is not working right, and I don't think anybody wants to be waiting insurance carrier to determine what their outcome is going to be for the rest of their life, and I understand that we must make some reform, but I think we need to be looking at making some reforms on medical costs as well while we're doing the Medicaid reform because it has been up, up, and up. And wages are flat, insurance premiums are going up, and people

are going to be less healthy by the time they get in the system even if they get in the Medicaid. So I think that the hardest part is to know that the instruments carriers are insurers or whoever you want to call them, we had a provider led system with CCNC. Since 2003 they saved us between 312 million up to $400 hundred million annually. That system was led by physicians, it was created by physicians and now we're telling them we don't trust you anymore. Well I trust my doctor, I trust my cardiologist. I trust them 100% more than I can trust an insurer. I'm also concerned that in the next several years we may be moving behavioral health and I think I might loose my mind around it if you do that because that system we've done that one before. I've watched that in the process and we've done that before and it's not any better, but I believe when you have patience, excuse me, when you have a provide elite service is a well more put-together picture, most of the time the business is on the outside when you go in the room with the physician, the business is handled at the desk, not inside. So I think we need to just think about how fast moving, you said it'll take four years to do that, that's fine, take four years. But I'm hoping once this is done is that we collect the data and we collect, we search, before we move on to behavioral health and mental health before we start messing with that because we've been through three or four changes that I guess in the last 20 years and is still not right. But to provide a lead, I've worked with CCNC I've been in one of the fair lift qualified incentives in Mecklenburg county the CW Williams Clinic, and I know the work they do and I've seen the data as a nurse as healthcare provider. I don't know how better you can get. Thank you. For what purpose does the gentleman from Wake Representative Jackson rise? To speak on the Conference Report. You have the floor to speak on the Conference Report. Thank you Mr. Speaker and Ladies and gentlemen don't worry I don't have a 10 minutes speech for it now or today so you won't have to listen to that. I don't know about you, but one thing I don't get a lot of calls is about is about the services my constituency are getting from the medicaid program. The calls I get are about getting qualified for medicaid, but once they get qualified I get very few calls, about whether or not they're getting the services to which they need or entitled to. Today we're going to make a big change in that system and we're going to turn it over to full profit companies, and make no bones about it they're in the business of making a profit. They'll either A make a profit, or B they'll walk away, leaving the taxpayers of North Carolina holding the bag. So you have to decide how you feel about this. Do you believe that our local hospitals and your local providers, medical providers, are wasting so much money that these four profit companies can come in here, take it over, make that profit and still provide their services? I don't think our doctors in our hospitals are wasting that much, I trust them. Maybe it's because my wife works for a group of six, seven, eight, physicians at the hospital who one comes in without insurance or with Medicaid, their grouped is one of the first ones to take that patient, but I trust my locals, I trust my doctors. I wish we did, I think the way these managed care companies are going to make this work is they're going to come in and they're going to cut a lot of services, and what you're going to do is you're going to be sitting in your office those of you who are still here in five or 10 years and everyday your phone is going to ring, and it's going to be about somebody who can't get qualification for that procedure they need, that test that they need, or that treatment that they need and you're going to think to yourself, what happened? Why I'm I involved in the medical decision making process? And you'll be able to look back at this vote today and you'll know why. I ask you to vote no. For what purpose does the gentleman from Forsyth, Representative Lambeth rise? Ask Representative Queen a question. Representative representative do you yield?  Yes. Representative Queen do you know what the quality of care as measured across North Carolina for Medicaid patients is?

I don't have direct access to that, no. Representative Queen do you have any measurement of access to providers across the state, how we measure that and how many going untraded? Do you yield?   I do yield. On specifics donor I do have just general comments from positions and medical providers that I represent. So I have their reports to me. Follow up. One last question, representative Queen do you know from the report provided from the PED what the percentage, the per capita medicaid expenditures in North Carolina are compared to the nation?  Representative Queen do you yield? yield. I do know that they are relatively low, do you have that right away? I do. What is it? Mr. Lambert if you. This is Ashley report provided to legislators, it's a report card on how North Carolina does. North Carolina ranks 28 on per capita medicaid expenditures, not close to the top in my view but on the lower half of Medicaid expenditures.  Members the house is about to go into recess to discuss something unrelated to this under this bill. For what purpose does the gentleman from Rile representative Hager rise? speaker for announcement. Gentleman's recognized for an announcement. Thank you Speaker for CAP1228  withdrewing [xx] during recess. Members before we do that the chair would like to recognize a number of clerks and secretaries, of legislative bodies from throughout the united states and Canada who are here for the what's going on this week. Would you all please stand so that we can officially welcome you and thank you for being with us? Thank you for being here today. Please let us know if Miss [xx] is not a good host for you. Any further notices and announcements at this time, I see a number of lights, for what purpose does the gentleman from Durham representative Paul rise? Thank you Mr. Speaker, I may have missed it, what time are we, I want to follow up that as you speak you speak with the rules chari. For what purpose does the gentleman from Harnett representative Lewis rise? For an announcement. The gentleman has the floor for announcement. Mr. Speaker the house committee on rules, calendar and operations the house omitted 4 O'clock PM in room 1228. Any further notices or announcements? The chair sees a couple of lights, but the chair believes those lights of Graham and okay, for what purpose does the gentleman from Durham, Representative Hall rise? For an announcement Mr. Speaker. The gentleman has the floor for an announcement. Democrats will Caucasus in the Caucasus room at 3:30 immediately after this recess. And members just for your planning purposes the purpose for the recess is to for number one, the Republicans need to focus on the terms system matter and the other thing is that, the rule committee will be taking belief three bills, the rules I notice will go out and those bills will more than likely be added to this evening's calendar. The Chair believes they are not controversial madam and rise now for trying dispose some of those bills is try to clear the day since we are towards the end of session, we're trying to get as many things out of the was as we can, so those will be read on later on but for those members that are specially interested the rules committee will be meeting at 4 pm. Further notices and announcements. For what purpose does the lady I'm sorry Representative Stevens rise? For an announcement, The lady has the floor for an announcement. It only affects three members of the house here but we had a conference committee set up for my office when session was over why don't we plan to meet here at 4 o'clock right here in the chambers. Members subject to receipt of message from the senate committee reports, conference reports, re-referrals bills and resolutions and appointment of conferees the house is going to stand in recess until 4:30 house is in recess. The house will come back to order. Members earlier two bills were reported in one was removed from committee on judiciary two it's senate bill 370 it is the E-signature vehicle title and registration act the chair is unaware of any controversy on this bill the chair intends to add that to this evenings calendar again with senate bill 370. Title is E vehicle title registration, is there any objection to this bill being in this evening's calendar? Mr. Speaker, could I just have one minute to take a quick look at it?

What I'm going to do, I'm going to take the other bill and then the gentleman can devise if he consents or we need to make a motion whatever. It's  senate bill 370. Senator Barefoot's bill is an act to allow the use of electronic means to sign and notate certain documents, required by the DMV and to provide that the secure party shall provide electronic notice of the satisfaction or other discharge of a security interested in a motor vehicle [xx] certificate title is notated by a   [xx] electronic means. I'm assuming it is an agency bill, it has that look to it but again senate bill 370. The chair will inquire the body again. The second bill is a bill that was seconded by the senate for concurrence. And that is house bill 698, is the Baby Carly Nugent Bill. And this as an act letting the commission for public health, to adopt rules to add a screening tests for severe combined immunodeficiency and other T cell infonus, to the new born wants screening program. That came over from the Senate to concurrence, it appears it passed the Senate 48 to 0, anybody have an objection there? Seeing no lights, seeing no objection, that bill is added to this evening's calendar. I object. Anybody have an objection to the earlier bill? The gentleman from Durham still looking that one up? Okay, we'll come back to it. We're now going to get back to the Medicaid bill, House Bill 362 it is before us, and it is the Chairs intent that we will vote on this bill by 5:30 this evening. For what purpose does the lady from Orange, Representative Insko rise? To speak briefly a second time. Lady has the floor to debate the bill a second time. Thank you Mr. Speaker. I also wanted to add that I greatly appreciate the work that Representative Lambeth did on this job, we're fortunate to have him here. I also said that regardless of the fact that it's a lot better than the Senate bill, that that's not a reason to vote yes on the motion to concur. I want you to just think about any doctor you've ever heard who said they made money on Medicaid. Ask any provider, they'll tell you they lose money on Medicaid they're lucky if they break even. So the reason that we have of a successful Medicaid program is because our provider incorporate Medicaid patients into their regular practice. They make money on the other patients, they're willing to break even on Medicaid, if we take money out of that system to provide profit for the four private companies that's going to squeeze, that'll produce a squeeze somewhere and they will take it out, in optional services or patient care, so this is not a win, win for North Carolina, and I decide to comment on the exchange between Representative [xx] and Representative Clean about the free market system and NCO that comes into the state will be highly capitalized. It is not at all unusual for them to create a very low bid, so that the state a lot of money in the first contract. They can afford to do that, they can afford to loose money the first three years, a hospitals can afford to lose money for three years, so it's not a place where the market system works, this is a place to vote no. For what purpose does Representative Mayer rise thank you Mr. Speaker to debate the conference report. You have the floor all sir. Thank you, I'm going to keep this real short, I think there's one thing the people of North Carolina need to know and that is if we put this plan into action your taxpayer dollars are going to turn into profits for insurance companies based on their ability to limit and cut services to poor people. That is not the way to handle a medicaid system, I'm voting against this bill. Thank you, for what purpose is Representative see Gram rise? Thank you I have a question for the bill sponsor. Representative Lambert do you yield? Yes Sir. The gentleman yields. Thank you Mr. Chair. Mr. Lambert, a couple of questions. Why? And I've heard you make referrence to the overutilization of emergency rooms keeping our cost high. Why do you think that is?

Primarily because the medicaid patient does not have a primary care physician or a good entry into the current healthcare system and they used the emergency room as their primary care physician. Good answer. I agree with you 100%. Can I just follow up Follow up. Representative Graham. That's the point I'm trying to make and I will make in my brief presentation. I don't want to be repetitive. Representative Graham to speak on the adoption. To speak on the adoption thank you. I'm speaking on the adoption and I want to emphasize a couple of points and I will sit down. Why would we doing a major medicaid and not consider expanding opportunities for those individuals that representative Lambeth just spoke to no insurance, utilizing our emergency rooms as their primary care physician, they have no opportunity for what purposes does the lady rise? Just a point of order and in several times today we talked about Medicaid expansion and that has absolutely nothing to do with bill, can we try to stay on topic. Thank you [xx] representative please keep in mind due to the question Thank you. I appreciate that Mr. Speaker Marylin [xx] so related to medicaid reform and that's what I'm talking about. I'm going to, I don't mean to be repetitive but I'm going to echo the same concerns that representative [xx] I do not see when we're talking about MCOs, [xx] a medical doctor who's working for an insurance company, not working for that insurance company looking at their bottom line, I don't think that's quality healthcare. I think our doctors, our providers who've been in the field for many years, and years, and years they have the expertise, they have the experience, they have the knowledge on how to keep costs down, and how to limit utilization of these emergencies rooms, and I think the PLEs are the way we should be going I thought that's where we're going, now we're talking about major co operations now coming into this state, managing our Medicaid recipients healthcare and I just don't believe that's the way we should be going, and I will not support this. I just don't like the way it looks, the way it feels, the moving part I don't think is going to be good to medicaid recipients and I just don't think it will be good to our working pool in this state, I will not support it, I think it of high profits for insurance companies and major corporations and I will not support this. Thank you Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker I have a question. Speaker. Representative Lambeth. Can I ask a question? Does the gentleman yield? Yes I do. Do you realize that the state will actually set the rates for the provider led, or commercial plans? Representative Lambeth, I'm not expert in this field I do know one thing, we are talking about MCOs coming into our state running our medicaid program, benefiting bottom line that's that's the profit margin I'm not going to support that. Follow up. You also realize that 10 PLE's will be operating around the state in. I do realize that. Thank you. Thank you, for what reason do the general lady from Wake representative Adcock seek the floor? Excuse me? To debate the motion. You have the floor. Thank you, several people have asked me to today how I feel about this bill, because they know that I'm a nurse practitioner and I came into the session today with an open mind because I felt that so much work has been done on this bill and I want to commend representative Lambert in particular for the, both the intelligence he;s brought to this conversation and also the heart because his intentions are really good to make this system better. And I have to say that it is in practitioner who has actually cared for Medicaid patients during my 28 career and a s a practitioner, I believe that the direction that we wish to get which is to create a system that rewards

for good outcomes and quality care is the right place to go. But I'm very concerned that this is not the right way to get there. You know if, CCNC's contract was ready to be renewed and they told us that they needed to double their administrative charge to 12%, I think we'd be taking [xx] and I think that we would explain to them we could not bear that cost, and yet here we are talking about creating a system where we would have less money for care even if our Medicaid spend stays the same, 12% towards [xx] is less money to go for clinical care. So I want to caution us to think about something that we know is essential core to the delivery of health care and that is do no harm. I'm very fearful, that if we pass this bill we will do harm. We will do harm to a system that we know actually is not broken, it is is working, will do harm to the providers who have created a system and helped to strengthen it, particularly over the last three years, but most importantly they will do harm to Medicaid patients who in many cases have no other choice, where they're going to receive their healthcare. I would urge you to.  Mr. Speaker a question of representative?. Representative Lambeth for what do you rise? Representative Lambeth for what do you rise?. Ask the representative a question. Does the lady yield? Yes sir. Representative Adcock do you realize that on March 2016 that CCNC will actually promenade?.  If we do not move forward with the reform plan. Yes unfortunately I do representative Lan but I'm ready for the budget and I one of the things that really concerned me, I called it the nuclear option for CCNC, it makes me very sad but I don't want to be extorted into voting for this bill because of that. I have to believe that we are a smart group of people and that we could do a technical election or something do something about that it makes me very worried. I feel like a lot of work has been done on this bill but I believe more work is yet to be done, and I believe that we should vote this bill down. Follow up question Follow up representatives do you yield? Yes sir. Representative Hancock can you tell me what the quality of care is and what matrix are currently used to monitor the care for Medicare patients? Yes sir I couldn't tell you right off the back  That would be great. I don't think it's appropriate to answer your own questions representative. Thank you very much. Gentleman from Wake still has the floor, have you finished with you remark? Yes I have, thank you very much. Thank you very much gentlemen from Stanly Representative Burr, and ladies and gentlemen pretty good start Representatives, we're taking about 5:30 it's the intent of the Chair to let the drafters fo the bill speak last that would be Jones and Lambeth, so Representative Burr you have the floor sir. Thank you Mr Chairman. Mr Chairman, members of the body I think what we have before us today is a major step in the right direction for North Carolina, it's a good deal and it's a good compromise you know that's something we all have sat over here and complained about with the senate, I have listen to many of you complain about the lack of willingness to compromise, well here you have that, you have the house which will pass the bill that was just for PLEs for provider led INTs organizations, you had the senate with managed care and here you have a compromise and I think that is good and I think that this plan is good for the recipients, the Medicaid recipients that will be covered under this plan I think this plan is good for the tax payers I think this plan is good and works to improve the structure for how providers will manage the plan in terms of those that join up and join and are part of the PLE. Overall I think this plan will work to improve the likelihood of success. In government we tend to put all our eggs in one basket, and this plan is making sure that we don't do that, that we have multiple options out there, and I've heard the Redricks today, about this big bad managed care companies coming in North Carolina. That's new for you, they're already here, they already work in North Carolina, they already do business here. They're over 7, 000 individuals in North Carolina employed by health care company that deal with different healthcare issues outside of medicaid, they're already here. So you're not talking about folks just coming in to North Caroline they are here and they'll be able to

manage this through experience in this world and by allowing them to participate and allowing competition we're doing let me just say it by not putting all of our eggs in one basket. As I said I think this improves as well the predictivity for the taxpayers, it's good for everybody, it's good for the recipient, so I;m proud to stand here today and support it, is it perfect? Certainly not, but it is major step in the right direction and it's a step that's long overdue and it's something that I would encourage every member to vote for today and to help move our state forward in the right direction thank you Mr. Speaker. Representative Thopmson do you rise? Debate the conference report. You have the floor thank you Mr speaker, in the interest of full disclosure I supported the original house bill adamantly. I believed in the PLE model, I thought that, that would have been the right direction to go. As part of the compromise, we developed a hybrid model. So after that compromise was reached and I was fortunate enough to be on the conference committee, I made it a priority to make sure if that was the model, if that was the humble approach that we were going to take everything else in this bill had to be good for the providers, and it had to be good for the patients and I believe through the work of Representative Lambeth and the conference committee we've done that, that's why well be supporting this bill. Let's talk about CCN in the senate proposal it was eliminated starting next year. In this proposal it at least allows them to operate through capitation and then it gives a plan for them to go forward to have a role to play in North Carolina after that CCNC has saved money. It's been beneficial to this state, that's why I wanted to make sure that we gave them an opportunity to survive as we move forward with medicaid reform. This bill is done that. The LME and MCOs we wanted to make sure that they were separate and to give them time to integrate into this new system. In this bill it's going to be six years before that integration take place. So we've taken care of mental health in this bill, to make sure that they have a role, to make sure that, that integration is done deliberately and carefully. The loss ratio, the medical loss, original senate bill was to 15 this bill is 8812 which means 88% has to be spent on patients and providers. I think that moves just in the right direction. The chapter 58 provisions that representative Lambeth has talked about, that is protection for the providers and for for the patients that's in this bill. The single formula for prescription drugs where we don't have each MCO and each PLE developing their own formulary for prescription drugs. This bill takes care of that and gives a single formulary across the state, so the guess work is out of it. Again I support the PLEs, I want to make sure that they have a chance to survive under this new Medicaid reform plan because I think that is essential as we go forward. This bill mandates just mandates the only the PLEs can sent in request it's proposal for the regions. So it gives them a chance to play in Medicaid reform as we move forward. It was important that we had language in there that protect the least among us the dual eligibles they are curved out if you will in this bill because it's important to make sure that they get the services that they need so they are protected. Dental as is already been started as well it's separate it's mostly outpatient. It need to be separate in this bill that's taken care of. Ladies and gentlemen I don't know if the PLEs are going to survive I don't know is this things develop as this organisations get of the ground, I don't know if they are going to be successful, I don't know if it's going to be totally manage care in 10 years. But this bill at least gives those providers lead entities a chance to survive, and their is provisions in place gives him a chance to be successful in North Carolina, through the hard work or Representative Lambert the governing process in compromise, this bill does that. That's why today I'm proud to support this bill, yes in the beginning I did support

a provider lane only, I thought that would been the direction, governing staff the compromise was made with proper provisions in the measure, the dis provider lady entities had a way to move forward. Therefore because of that I am planning to support this bill and I will encourage you to do the same. For what purpose does gentleman [xx] seek recognition? To debate the conference support second time. You have the floor. Thank you Mr Speaker, ladies and gentlemen of the house I'd be re-missive if I didn't follow Representative Dobson's comment with a hearty Amen. I appreciate the comments that he had to make will not repeat them but it was very well said. Mr Speaker two hours ago or whenever it was that I folks I said that this is a good bill, it's not perfect, but once again the good is not the enemy of the perfect. The thing that I have found most unfortunate during this debate is that several of the members of the minority party decided that this was a bad bill, so they say they would not support and they wanted to talk about the lack of Medicaid expansion, now what's the problem? So that aspect of Medicaid reform I feel like that the people need to hear the both sides and as Paul Harvey would say the rest of the story for those listening, I would just remind the members of the body that Medicaid as a program grant that started 50 years ago back in 1965. It was supposed to be a safety net, and ladies and gentlemen almost one in five Americans is today are now on Medicaid almost 50% of the births in this country today are being for by Medicaid dollars In 1965 when this program began it was projected that in 25 years in 1990 it would cost about $12 billion. The actual figure 1990 turned out to be $90 billion and today 25 years later United States is spending more than $500 million on Medicaid as you let that figure sink in you might think also about studies that show that Medicaid cost of state budget nation wide are now 23% of state budgets and rising. The federal cost of medicaid is double the state costs. The congregational budget office says that entitlement are taking over the federal budget within a decade will be 100% of the federal budget think about that as you consider education and national defense and transportation, and everything else. Mr speaker. As solid pay for. Mr speaker what purpose does the gentleman rise? Point of order [xx] point of order. Are we speaking about the national deficit or are we speaking about North Carolina medicaid reform? Thank Representative I'll ask the gentleman to please keep it more on track with the medicaid reform thank you. Thank you Mr speaker we will continue to talk about medicaid reform as my friends from the other side of the isle did. In addressing some of the points that they made. According to a congregational report it was filled in 2011, medicaid expansion by the lay will cost the state over $118 billion in the next 10 years. That's where we're saving the taxpayers of North Carolina and in the other 49 states, those 21 states that have not taken medicaid expansion. Question was asked a little bit earlier what about the medicaid patient going to the ER? And what's the problem there? What's driving that? Let's just keep in mind something medicaid is a program where one person is getting services that someone else is paying for. And I would submit to you that a person that is paying the cost might consider going to the urgent care for 10 or 20 times less the cost but a person who's not paying for that cost has no incentive to do so. The beauty of this program is it incentivize the providers, it incentivize people to keep the cost down while actually providing a better service it is cheaper to be more preventive, it is cheaper to focus on wellness to focus on things early on and I think this will actually incentivize that to happen, so make no mistake about it this is not a perfect bill, but it is a good bill. It is a necessary step that needs to move forward in North Carolina and something has been talked about for years and years and years. Its time has come I'm glad we are not kicking the can once again down the road that we were actually during this session of the general assembly we are doing something about it. It will improve the Medicaid system, it will lower cost, it will give our tax payers going forward more certainty and I

hope you will support this bill. Thank you. Thank you gentleman from Forsyth Representative Lambeth you have two minutes. Thank you Mr. Speaker to speak a second time. I've often facts don't really matter down here. I want to share some facts with you. Fact is most states are moving to population health and outcomes, fact is states set the rates and there'll be risk-adjusted actuary, fact is there will be time to adjust as we move forward. There's still a lot of work to be done secretary and recommendation will be brought back to this group. The fact is providers will be at least ten PLEs managing the patients. They will be the predominant model in North Carolina. Fact is 88% of every dollar goes to direct patient care, fact is your emails have not been hot and  heavy with complaints about this plan because providers were part of building this plan. They sat at the table with the senate and house members we had many  many meetings. We incorporated their concerns and issues. Fact is we actually can do better North Carolina for these Medicaid beneficiaries. We're not measuring quality. Do you think quality in North Carolina across all the providers is equal and good? I can tell you it is not. We can do better about these patients because some don't have a primary care doctor and that's why they go to the ER's. We can do better about these patients, and they deserve better quite frankly. And I'm applaud that you would stand up and say what you said about taking care of these patients. This is about quality health care, this is about access to health care, and this is about doing what's right for these patients in North Carolina. Thank you and I appreciate your vote for this. Further discussion, further debate. If none the question before the house is the adoption of the congress report, the house bill 372, those in favor will vote ye those opposed will vote no the clerk will open the vote. The clerk will lock the machine and record the vote. 67 having in the affirmative and 38 in the negative the conference report to house bill 372 is adopted. The senate will be notified bill is ordered enrolled and sent to the governor by special messenger. Mr. Speaker for what purpose does the lady from Wilson Representative Farmer Butter-filed rise? I've asked that my last vote be no on that report thank you. The lady will be recorded as having voted no on house bill [xx] 372. House bill 372, Representative Zachery on the floor. Members earlier the chair inquired about adding the baby culling[sp?] [xx] bill, is there objection on that bill being added to this evening's calendar. For what purpose does the gentleman from Richmond representative Goodman rise? I'd like to change my vote on 372 to a no please. The gentleman will be recorded as having voted no on the conference report on 372. Hearing no objection, the House Bill 698 will also be added to this evening's calendar. Members, we will have bills tomorrow, but we will have the third reading at this point on 117. The Chair knows there are three additional bills, madam clerk have the bills that the chair is in possession of from the rules committee been read into the courts office, been read into the house yet? [xx] The gentleman from Hannick Representative Louis is recognized to send forth a committee report, the clerk will read. Representative Louis college, and operation of the house committee report Senate bill 97 state advise of the counsel, Indian education favorable? Counter as to committee substitute number one is the objection of this bill being added to this evening's  calendar senate bill 97 state advisory council on the Indian education. Hearing no objection bill will be added to tonight's calendar the clerk may continue. Senate bill 472 local incentive for historic rehabilitation favorable. Senate bill 472 account option rule 36b is their objection of this bill to being able dated to tonight's calendar again this is senate bill 472 local incentives for historic rehabilitation? Hearing no objections so ordered. The clerk may continue. Senate bill 195 modification service agreement amendments favorable house committee substitute unfavorable senate committee substitute. Unfavorable as to the senate

committee substitute favorable as to the house committee substitute number one calendar 36 B, is there objection to this bill being added to this evening calendar? Hearing none so ordered. Special messages from the senate, the clerk will read. House bill 912 senate committee substitute for the addition of the bill to be entitled on act to exempt bill, and personal property located in travel lands for property tax regardless of ownership, and authorized department of revenue to enter into an agreement with eastern vane of Turkey regarding the taxation of tobacco products, and to amend the requirement for distillery, liquor, and sale [xx] liquid distilled with [xx] [xx] conferees and senate committee substitute. Calendar [xx] rule 36 B, Representative West is the gentleman aware of any controversy surrounding this bill? Be counted, just a moment. This bill will be calendared for Senate rule 36B for September 23 which will be tomorrow. The Clerk may continue. Senate bill 647 committee substitute number 36B a bill to be entitled an act to amend the trapping[sp?] law related to [xx]. Bill is refereed to the committee on wildlife resources.  Senate bill 37 the clerk will read. Senator Barefoot senate bill 370 a bill to be entitled an act to allow [xx] certain documents provide by the Division of Motor Vehicle and to revive their security, [xx] provide link trying to notice of dissatisfaction as well the discharge of the security interest of motor vehicle for which certificate of title is noted [xx] General Assembly of North Carolina enacts. For what purpose gentleman from Gaston Representative Torbett rise? To speak on the bill Mr speaker. The gentleman has the floor to debate the bill. Thank you so much, ladies and gentlemen it's a pleasure to stand in front of you again tonight to help bring, to inform you of a bill that would help DMV. There is someone stated last week or I think last week from 19th century to 21st century. This will allow the electronic signature on application for [xx] registration, electronics notice of release of security interests. Two things that would greatly enhance the speed and efficiency of department motor vehicle. I stand for any questions Mr Speaker.   Further discussion, further debate?  For what purpose does the gentleman from Craven, representative [xx] rise?   To see if the gentleman who would answer questions. does the gentleman from gas [xx] from the gentleman from [xx] How much time do I have to ponder that? [xx] Does this mean, is this for titles as well? sorry, what is this for, could you explain it a little more detailed what kind of documents we're talking about? Sure I'll be happy to so section one electronic signatures, section clarifies that various documents move to division motor vehicles passing to have motor vehicles sale or lease maybe notice may they submitted with electronic signatures and electronic authorization provided there is no conflict with federal law, they then has reviewed this section and has asked that this section become effective in obvious 2016 to remain temporarily implementation needed. Section two, release of security entrance in a vehicle, electronic lane release. Under existing law upon the satisfaction of the security interest in a vehicle, security party lender must release a certificate title within the early here, of 10 days after demand or 30 days from the date of satisfaction. The division motor vehicles recently implemented new electronic lane release system tell me which lanes, and the lane releases for vehicles are electronically recorded, the new system becomes mandatory for most lenders of January first of 2016. Under the new system lane releases for titles which are electronically recorded should take valid less time to perform, is there any issue representative? Thank you. What purpose does the lady Representative Macklebur representative Klemer[sp?] rise?. To speak to the bill. Lady has the floor to debate bill. Thank you Mr. Speaker, Representative Tobit I had to stand up and thank you for this bill because I was in a DMB on Monday and I was in [xx] about 45 minutes, and there was only seven people in our new office in [xx] and I want to be at that 45 minutes it was about 50 people in there. And so I can really appreciate this bill thank you. Further discussion, futher debate if not the question before the house is the passing of senate bill 370 on its second reading. Those in favor will vote aye, those opposed will vote no. The clerk will open the vote. The clerk will lock the

machine and record the vote. 105 having voted in the affirmative and none in the negative. Senate bill 370 passes its second reading, and will without objection be read a third time. General assembly of North Carolina enacts. Further discussion further debate? If not the question before the house is the passage of senate bill 370 on it's third reading. Those in favor will say say aye, aye, those opposed no. The ayes have it senate bill 370 passes it's third reading the bill is ordered enrolled and sent to the governor. Senator [xx] will be notified. So house bill 698, the clerk will read. Representative Jeter, Lambeth, Adcock, house bill 698 will for the entire director commission for public health to adopt rules to end screening test for severe combine a moment deficiency and [xx] cell for the two to the newborn screening program [xx] North Carolina. What purpose does the gentleman from Macklin Bird representative Gider rise? For motion and debate of the motion. Gentleman recognized for a motion I would like to make a motion that we concur on senate committee substitute on house bill 698. Gentleman has made a motion to concur with the senate committee substitute the house bill 698, the gentleman has the floor to debate the motion. Thank you Mr speaker, I'd like to recognize, and thank my good friend representative Adcock. You did a great a good job in the senate finance yesterday getting this bill through committee, and of course here on Donny Lambeth day in the house chamber the other sponsor of this bill. This bill passes chamber 109 to one past unanimously in the senate, the only difference in ours, and theirs is a fee requirements that was handled in the budget. So I would ask for everyone support other than that the bill remains the same. Further discussion, further debate, if not the question for the house is the motion to concur for senate committee substitute to house bill 698. Those in favor will vote aye, those opposed will vote no, the Clerk will open the vote. The clerk will lock the machine and record the vote. 104 having voted in the affirmative and one in the negative the motion concurred. Senate committee substitute for house bill 698 is adopted. The bill is ordered enrolled and sent to the governor. Senate bill 9o7 the Clerk will read. Senator Jay Davis, Senate Bill 907, the bill to enact membership of the state adviser council on the aim[sp?] of education. General Assembly of North Carolina next. For what purpose does the gentleman from Robeson representative Graham arise?. Speak on the motion. The gentleman has the floor to debate the bill. Members this is a sample bill that comes to us from senator Davis, it basically adds five teachers to the advisory council, it has support of the adviser council education committee [xx] sport Further discussion, further debate if not, question for the house is the passage of sender bill 97, second reading, those in favor will vote aye, those opposed will vote no the clerk will open the vote. 105 having voted in the affirmative and none in the negative so the bill 97 passes second reading and with no objection coming next. Further discussion further debate, if not the questions for the house is the passage of senate bill 97 on its third reading, those in favor say aye, those opposed nay, the ayes have it. Senate bill 97 passes its third reading, the bill is ordered enrolled and sent to the governor. Senate bill 472 the clerk will read. Senators Vitao[sp?] and Jay Davis, Reverend Tarp and [xx]. Senate bill 472, a bill to be entitled an act to authorize local government  to appreciate money for [xx] and to clarify the standardized requirements for appropriating funds for local economic development, general assembly of North Carolina enact. What purpose does the gentleman from Lincoln representative Sein rise? To speak on the bill. The gentleman has the floor to debate the bill. Thank you Mr speaker. Senate bill 472 is the local incentives bill for historic rehabilitation. It would authorize cities and counties to make grants and loans for the rehabilitation of commercial or non-commercial historic structures whether the structure is publicly, or privately owned. The bill also clarifies the language of [xx] statue 158-7 that authorize citizens counties to make appropriations for economic development purposes including requiring all appropriations to have public hearings comply with the local government budget of fiscal control act, and be reported on the annual financial report. We had agreed on this in the rules committee unanimous support I

urge you to support the bill, thank you Mr speaker. For what purpose does the gentleman from Gaston Representative Torbett rise? Ask the bill presenter a question. Does the gentleman from Lincoln yield to the gentleman from Gaston? I yield Mr. Speaker. He yields. Thank you, Representative Gaston. Can you address first if there's any parallel, or any impact you would have on those states national, or state historic funding's  is any there separate? Is there anything tied, or anything that is Thank you for the question representative Torbett, there's no state money tied to that that's simply a local decision or a local option, thank you. Further discussion, further debate, for what purpose does the gentleman from Nash representative Collins rise? You asked Representative Saine a question. Does the gentleman from Lincoln yield to the gentleman from Nash? I yield. He yields. Representative Saine I was just reading, I don't know what page this is anyway subsection eight where it says a county, or city may make grants for loans for the rehabilitation of commercial, or none commercial historic structures whether the structure is publicly a private owned. Does that mean this will be available for house renovations for instance to historical homes for people to live in, or not? Thank you for the question, I can only answer to the best I know, and I think I think it's up to the local institute to make that decision as I read the bill, thank you. For what purpose does the gentleman from Wake Representative Stam rise? To speak on the bill, the gentleman has the floor to debate the bill. Members of the house, Mr speaker it's six and the last thing I want to do is prolong the evening, but I'm going to tell you why I vote against it. First of all I don't think it does much because they can all police in counties can already spend money for "economic development purposes" which according to court decisions is almost anything, but if you actually read what they can do commercial all night commercial means anything. Public or privately means ownership and then historic structures also means anything. And the reason I say anything is [xx] Kelly recently where they had to maintain a historic that's no a historic structure that's ugly old ranch house and they said but it's old, and how old was it? Turned out that house was younger than I was, nothing historic about it, so basically what you do here is just making a clear statutory authority for the city county to spend money on anybody's property. For what purpose does the gentleman from Cabarrus Representative Pittman rise? To speak on the bill. The gentleman has the floor to debate the bill. If this were about actual historic preservation we might be able to vote for, but since it's not I can't thank you. What purpose does the gentlemen from Oregon representative Steiner rise? To speak on the bill second time. The gentlemen has the floor to debate the bill second time. T Hank you Mr. Speaker. Though this is not my bill I was alerted to it by my local economic development folks, and downtown historic folks. We have a project that's in the works, a housing development that prompted in me an interest by property owners, and business prospects to indicate their plans to invest in our downtown in Linkleton. So I do think that it has some significant impact rather certainly methods to how we're looking at so I think yours could too. So I urge you to vote for the bill. Thank you. Further discussion further debate if not the the house is the passage of senate bill 472 on it's second reading. Those in favor will vote aye, those opposed will vote no. The clerk will open the vote. The court will look the machine and record the vote. 86 having voted in the affirmative and 19 in the negative senate bill 472 passes it second reading and will without objection will be read third time. North Carolina annex. Further discussion further debate if not the question before the house is to pass the bill senate bill 472 on it's third reading. Those in favor will say aye, those opposed no, Aye the house bill have it. Senate bill 472 passes its third reading. [xx] bill is ordered in road and sent to the governor senate bill 195 the clerk will read. Senator [xx] senate bill 195 appeals to be legal framework for the frame of regulation of motor vehicle, ancillary hand type self protection contract in North Carolina. General assembly of North Carolina enact.  What purpose does the gentleman from Brake, Representative Dollar rise? To debate the bill. The gentleman has the floor to debate the bill. Thank you Mr. Speaker, members of the house. This bill just very simply deals wit motor vehicle service agreement it clarifies several items one thing that it clarifies is that

out of service agreements were not insurance products it also clarifies service agreements include such things as repairs the tires, wind shields, key [xx] replacements and things of that nature and it also defines [xx] auto theft protection programs in the like and that those warranty that go with them are not insurance products. This bill has been vetted through several committees it has been reviewed by the North Carolina department of insurance Auto dealers retail merchants he's consistent with the service contract model act adopted by the national association of insurance commissioners, and I know of no opposition. Further discussion, further debate. If not the question for the house is the passing of Senate Bill 195 on its second reading. Those in favor will vote aye, those opposed with vote no. The clerk will open the vote. The clerk will will lock the machine will record the vote 104 having voted in the affirmative, and one in the negative. Does the gentleman from Catawba wish to be recorded aye, chair record representatives [xx] as aye which will make the vote 105 in the affirmative, and none of the negative, senate bill 195 passes it second reading, and will without objection be read the third time Gentleman from North Carolina next Further discussion further debate if not the question before the house is the passage of Senate bill 195 on its third reading those in favor will say aye Aye Those opposed no, the aye's have it, Senate bill 195 passes its third reading, those [xx] in [xx] Strike that. Having passed it's third reading the bill is returned to the senate. What purpose does the gentleman from Orlando representative Warren rise? Without objection I would like my vote on senate bill 472 recorded as Aye please. Gentleman be recorded say I'm voted aye on senate bill 472. House [xx] momentarily chair poise the following Members, a message was read earlier from the Senate that the Senate did not concur with Senate bill 279 which was a bill to be entitled act amending the Professional Council's Act and the Senate appointed conferees the chair appoints the following members as conferees  Representative Stan Chair members Representatives Horn, Riddell, Arp, Fisher, Bishop and Blackwell. The senate will be so notified. notices or announcements. For what purpose does the gentleman from Orange representative Meyers rise. For a moment of personal privilege. The gentleman is recognized to speak for a point personal privilege. Ladies and gentlemen, members of the body I just want to let you know about a fascinating documentary I watched this weekend about the North Carolina General Assembly was filmed in 1963 it's called The Aye's Have It. It was the first year we were in this building and it talks about how our process works which has changed much since 1963, and what the legislature was like at that time and things have changed a lot since 1963 there. It's about 30 minutes I'll send that link to you by email so you can check it out. And I just want to throw out a shout out to Jordan [xx] who is a Masters student at UNC in the school of government and was an intern here, in the fiscal research division this year. And he's the one who dug it up from the dark archives of the internet and sent it to me. So I'll forward it on to you for your enjoyment What purpose does the gentleman from Wayne representative bell rise? I'm on a personal privilege. The gentleman is recognized to speak to a point of personal privilege.   Thank you Mr. Speaker members

this weekend in Wayne county in the city of Gainsborough we had 11 agencies unite, and converge on the city to combat crime, and our community was very supportive of what happened. Had over 90 law enforcement agency, excuse me 11 local enforcement officials in the city for two day weekend we were able able to arrest 27 people and [xx] prosecuted 136 charges in the county and I want to give a special operation because a for the operational support that our alcohol law enforcement gave. I'd like to publicly thank ALE branch Aid Mark center, assistant director Rodney Beckham of advisory agent in charge Eric Sweene, special agent Matt Knight and reserve special agent Chip Hughes for their support of our community and keeping our citizens safe. So thank you very much and I there are wonderful budget we passed last week when the health support defines men and women so thank you. For what purpose does the lady from Coyrt read representative Mikel have to rise? For an announcement. Lady has the floor for an announcement. The conferees, house conferees will meet with the senate conferees tomorrow on House Bill 765 which is the web reform, It'll be in room 605, I think you've got a notice on it, three o'clock tomorrow afternoon. For what purpose does the lady from Aidel, representative Turner rise?  For a moment of personal privilege, the lady is recognized to speak to a point of personal privilege. Members I'd like to ask you prayer for the family and the school staff central elementary in Idaho county there was a shooting this afternoon, one dead and of course one in custody. And their son was there when it happened. I don't know how many other students might have been there but please keep them in prayer. For what purpose does the gentleman for Mecklenburg representative Brawley rise? Moment of personal privilege? The gentleman is recognized to speak to a point of personal privilege. Well, I today was able to congratulate my [xx] on her birthday Len Taylor, September 22nd it's an easy day to remember, it's the first full of fall, but also it's another day that we might remember, on this day it's 1770 Nathan Hale was executed by the British, for being a captain in the continental line and his last words were, I regret that I have but one life that I give for my country, thank you. For what purpose does the gentleman from Cumberland representative Floyd raise? Inquiry of chair. The gentleman may state his inquiry. Mr. Speaker could you give us the outlook of this week. Was getting in to do that, thank you for your question. Where we are right now members if I can have your attention, tomorrow's session will be at 9:30, and I believe that we will have a relatively short morning. The two bills that will be on the mars[sp?] counter, at least the chair's aware at this point will be 117 which passed this evening by, on second reading, that will be on for third reading, and I believe there's one other bill, maybe two other bills that are on for tomorrow. We'd expect that we would be done sometime before lunch, tomorrow with that, with session, and that will be our session tomorrow there will obviously be some conference committees that need to meet and there'll be other meetings on going as well, I would say stay posted for any committee meetings to be called. Thursday at this point we will likely have some vote so that was not determined yet it depends on what happens out of the committee. The bond bill is going to be heard in the Senate I believe tomorrow, it is going to be modified from what it presently is as I understand out of the finance committee, but that bill, we will not take the bond bill up until next week. As far as the remainder of this week it does appear at this point that members will not have to be here Friday, Saturday, or Sunday. We have disposed, we've done some pretty heavy lifting. Part of the reason why we had it on these bills tonight was to try to get some of these bills out of the way, and try to get a really good map where we are. So I would say at this point, members can plan on not having to be here on Friday, Saturday, or Sunday be here of course tomorrow be here on Thursday normal week, and then the plan is to come back in on Monday, Tuesday Tuesday, and Wednesday, and adjourn on Wednesday of next week for the long session. So as far as Monday is scheduled knowing if whether you need to be here Monday morning, or Monday afternoon noon stay posted we are just going to see how the process goes, but right now that is the road map that is of course subject to change depending on things, but right now that appears to be our schedule, and I will say that given the ends of sessions, that I have been up before many of you have before it probably at least even though we are still here

in September is probably a little more manageable, and a little more of a friendly schedule than it is, and sometimes we're spending hours on the floor waiting for things to happen and we've intentionally, and I want to thank the committee chairs intentionally tried not to do that so that when you're here on the floor we're actually taking care of business, when we're not the committees are meeting at a very robust pace, and will commence facing the business so that's the schedule. For what purpose does the gentleman from Wake Representative Martin rise? Inquiry to the chair. The gentleman may state his inquiry. Facing that's influence question [xx] way, which day should we break out the purple suits? Probably Wednesday Further notices and announcements the court has announced and the clerk will read. Oh I'm sorry about pulling a ratification to bills resolution clerk will read The following, the Roman clerk request the following bill to have the right to presentation to the governor. House Bill 372, an act to transform and recognize Medicaid in North Carolina programs Chapter bills be noted [xx] is recognized for an announcement.     Health committee of finance will meet Wednesday, September, 23rd 2015 at 8:30 AM at at room 540 LOB Further notices and announcements? If not the gentleman from representative Louise isa recognised for a motion Mr Speaker, subject to the state of committee reports, conference reports, the rereferrals of bills and resolutions the house to now adjourned to reconvene September 23rd at 9:30 AM Representative Louise Moore [xx] by representative Blust, that the house can now adjourn subject to receive our committee reports, receive the conference report, we refer all bills resolutions. To reconvene on Wednesday September 23rd at 9.30 AM, those in favor will say aye Aye. Those opposed no. The ayes have it, we stand adjourned.