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Senate | April 15, 2015 | Committee Room | Education and Higher Education

Full MP3 Audio File

If members are in the room and not sited if they will I hope we start now Senator Roberts is here and senator Raven is here so I hope we'll be able to conduct that meeting we have some handouts coming around now take a look at those you'll be referring to it during the meeting welcome the Education Committee meeting I'd like to the soldier on arm will require to some matters go to break break and we appreciate them they're ever good and faithful and we've got pages here today Charles Kooper come down what's your name? Crumbler? who wrote that last line I want to use that hand I know I wont mind that from you, sure I want to ask you a question when get through passing those things and Senator Rabin who sponsored you, and then there's a name that erased Senator Rabin, do you have a sponsor here today? She's not here. For not being on the committee I'm not surprised she's not here. Anyway I don't know who that was but they did not make the cut. Charles and Mr. Crumbler, step up to the mic there will you? I know you've not been asked to do this anywhere else in your life and you probably won't again. Where do you go to school? [xx] Academy. What grade? Sophomore year. Sophomore in high school, what do you want to be down the road? The one question I'm not prepared for. Alright you're not prepared. In a tenth grade all I wanted was a car and a girl. Do you still want it? Don't said that. Carnol[sp?] Ravin yes sir. Seen as how Mr. Crumpler and I friends and [xx] I haven't made my mind on what I want to become when I grow up yet either. Here is [xx] [xx] [xx] I'm speaking know. [XX] was a wise man. Thank you. So thank you for making an appearance here in public for the record. Turn that mic off hit that button nine. Latin thank you sir. Gentle man in the [xx] one out of two is not bad either, I want to welcome you to the committee today we got [xx] might take a little while so hang in there and lets begin with the issue of tuition [xx] [xx] [xx] the mic is yours, the floor is yours. If you will go to the pondium Chairman, is that your bill? Only have a PCS  data  Sir [xx] [xx] xx] [xx] xx]PCS is before us thank you Senator Tillman. The reason why I brought this forward is because my time as I go throughout the states, talking education I've seen a lot of confusion about the teacher attrition data about it comes out because it labels it this time as 14. Something percent and people assume that is teachers that left their profession unhappy, and one, that's a misrepresentation and really a miscommunication has been misquoted [xx] a lot whether being papers or a misunderstanding with parents and teachers that I've spoken to about what that's really saying. So first we want to have information that's accurate, so what's going on and why especially because we want to know what's going on with any teacher that's changing her job or his/her profession so we can know what's going on, why it's going on, is that good or is that not good what we can change because we see in bold it's 14% teacher attrition it doesn't say that 7.8% of those were contracts that were not renewed, they resigned in lieu of dismissal, interim not recovered, teachers that the school system said we adopt that you should be a teacher anymore because of your performance or conduct but also doesn't state that 30% left the early aid but remained in education. That's not a bad thing about teachers moving, it's going to remain in education in north Carolina continue to serve the people so we want to find out exactly what that data looks like so that we can figure out is it the good teachers that are moving on? Is it the poor teachers that are moving on? Because I'd like the good teachers to stay and the poor teachers to improve or to move on, but we don't have the data to really determine that because it's all kind of lumped in a way that's misuse and misrepresented. So that's why I put this forward and the staff, if you have any questions our staff can continue to explain that. Senator [xx], thank you

for bringing this bill forward you [xx] wonderful idea there. We need to find out where they're really going and what's really happening because if you say our turnover rate is 14% that's highly misleading and in a lot cases it's only accurate in the sense that they did leave and go somewhere and that's not the true picture downed up to probably eight or 9% maybe less than that. It actually left to [xx] education, the staff wants to extrapolate it's your call otherwise I type question from committee and I don't know where to start but I will be there senator Robinson I saw you first thank you Mr chair thank you to say what you said check one question I think we need newsletter I agree we need to know what is going on where will we be able to get the number of to the return wrongly I know that my be a difficult one because we don't get what return means so it is a matter of wait a while I don't know how you would explain there but I like to those would it is a special good teachers so good teacher would stay stay. And over the years there have been reasons whether it was press there, paperwork, whatever, administration [xx] change that drive them out of the register if the retirement is here any way that we can get the number retired earlier my ask a question on this yes go ahead so you are saying only define that as random before the maximum date of service how would we define that earlier would mean?  Mr Chair well I guess my responses I am not sure because you have to have a maximum and that maybe a staff question in the back in terms of if we can look at it in terms of maximum time they have to serve the lead before their time as opposed to the way that till they had the 30 years and age and whatever is clear about what the requirement is staff you may want to take us to hear regarding this meeting and how nasty earlier how late etcetera. Currently the way that is reporting is they have teachers who have the LEA for personal reasons and one of the things noted under that is teachers resigning or resigning that's where retiring with reduced benefits. Okay we have actual senator [xx] you are next then Brown I [xx] at the appropriate time. We had that already we go the PCS approved you're talking about for the whole of bill PCS now, we're hold up for a minute Senator Kurtis but I've got that. Senator Bargin[sp?] then Senator Brown. Thank you Mr. Chair. I know here in the summary that the SPE is required to adopt standard procedures for gathering this information it is currently the policy to offer the opportunity for an exit interview. I'm being proud to cause my across the street neighbor is has 50 years of teaching and she is a decorated teacher wonderful, and we can a lot form those exit interviews do you what goes on now or is it a [xx]  I start up to have information on what [xx]  I'm sorry currently there's a survey that's done and they also in some instances have the option for an exit interview.  So some day some time we can't count on the exit interview I thank you. Thank you. OK, Senator Brown.  Thanks Mr Chairman. Senator [xx], I think one key issue I dont know if youll address this but I'm just going to bring it up, I think supplements that can be paid teachers on a local level have a huge the impact on this issue. I dont know if you've included that as a piece of what we should take a look at but I think you have situations where people live in a community and they see what other teachers in other communities may be getting for supplements but that's their community, they don't want to leave but I think over time it does have an impact on how they feel about the profession and in most cases cases because it could be two counties right beside each other, and the supplements that can be paid in maybe a wealthy county compared to a low wealth county in some places, there's a pretty huge difference and I think that has a huge impact on decisions some of these teachers make. I don't know if that's something you might get to address in this bill, but I think it's important information to have.  Senator Soucek[sp?].

 Yes, Senator Brown, that's a great point because all these questions what they're doing is and how do we get down to the meat of why are teachers making decisions on what they're doing, and what can we do as a State to promote having the best teachers stay and the best teachers either do something else or become good teachers? So that's a good question and one of the things we're going to have to do here because the State Board has brought up an issue on the timing of the effective date whether that's feasible or not and we're still looking at depending how fast it might go through the House so that is we're going to be talking about and open to the House adjusting a little bit and what you brought up here might be something that could be very simple it's very is what all the county supplements are and that might be included as well so we can see Foushee[sp?] I mention that and we'll see as we move forward if that might be something can be included well. Senator Brown, you got a good point. If auction[sp?] means you still county leaving, if you go from Landoff[sp?] to Guilford County for $10, 000 raising supplements, that's attrition according to where we're looking at now, but to me that's not attrition. You're still teaching, you're just teaching in a different locale. But if you look at why and real down and whether you can get the data on that, I don't know but it can make a big difference in moving from one system to another and sometimes they're bordering counties like Landoff and Guilford. Okay thank you that is all we, Senator Richo. Thank you Mr chairman, looking at the language of the instruction, I got a question relating actually they are two questions, first is to subsection A, is hard to follow on Senator Baringham how do you propose to collect the data for the second half section that reasons for teachers leaving their profession, have you proposed to collect it? All right, senator, good question Senators [xx] or staff, the staff can address that? There is a place on the survey where they can self report why they actually leaving the system of the school. Okay, we can get that for the self reported [xx] it used to be statistically valid. What if they choose not to report and a significant number choose not to report? Well, I always have an option, I'll know that you'd make them report, it's a good point, but I don't know how you make them do that. It has to do with E and F what is, is there a definition anywhere of hard to staff? It's a hard to staff schools whether the schools or positions, I mean what is hard to staff? When I got my definition the staff may have a more technical definition and so we as sub subject [xx] the staff? I don't have that definition this time but I can check for you. That's a great point we need to find where the definition is, or we need to create it, and if we can't create synically then safely then that probably have to be removed. Okay I have Senator [xx] Rabon. I guess listening to what Senator Hudson said. Is it possible to have something put here at the tox[sp?] to the latter day of the data no plus or minus where we're rather than straight reporting, this conclusion can be drawn plus or minus, three percent of which is more in keeping with some of the more precise points I've seen done the stuff I think Grace is looking for is statistical accuracy. Is that [xx] to have any comments on them? Currently doesn't speak to that in the bill. It might me something worth discussing. Senators we'll hold that because that's something we can't look at senator Tuck I recognise you Thank you Mr. Chair I think the term from a statistical perspective it's called degree of confidence and that could be added. Alright, good suggestion seeing no other hands, we have a motion, no other hands we have a motion from Senator Curtis for a favor report of the Bill of the PCS. Included all in favor, I, I. Any opposed. Discussion on motion all the I's now have it no notes, thank you senator. Good job. We're going to move back now to the top of the agenda for the community college board of just states selection of candidates that will go to the floor and at this

time I am going to announce that we have four that we consent and we have two positions that we are going to name we may sign two positions that we consent for and we have four candidates. Therefore, if they said sponsor wants to speak on behalf of their care, they may or may not. At this time we'll start with the first name that I have is the J. Reigns black wall, sponsored by Welson [xx], so he could not be here, I'm saying same over here sen. Clerk I will speak on behalf of Sen. [xx] that I am the other senator of Cummling County and bring [xx] is being [xx] but that is okay okay, okay very good and senator Smith did you have I was just going to speak on it as well but if the senator Clerk can do that since he represents part of Cameron County. Alright, those in favor of Mr. Blackwell, OK we'll move on to the next name and [xx] nominated by Senator MacKenna but first of all let's go ahead and take a vote. All those in favor of submitting [xx] Blackwell as one of our four nominees aye, any opposed. OK I don't think we need to do this since we got forward so we can stand we'll just take them all as a group when we present the vote we won't do them one by one vote like normal, Senator Cook you'll know let me say Senator Cook, Senator MacKenna is he here today? Alright you would like to speak two minutes on behalf of your candidate, Mrs Terry Garner. OK we individually I was just corrected by a legal staff. [xx] You can speak from right there if you like or up here either one you look better back there [xx] Alright the the floor is yours Senator.   Good morning Mr chairman and members of the education committee I do stand here this morning quite proudly nominating Terry Garner. Terry is a retired lawyer from Laurinburg, North Carolina, Scotland County. I have learned in the last 72 hours that he's been convicted to having too much gall and they removed his gallbladder. Because of the crime and so he's not with us physically this morning, but in spirit and he asked me to beg your forgiveness for he's not being able to attend here today due to those health those reasons. He is as I metioned a retired attorney there in Laurinburg North Carolina here is the past member of Scotland Board Of Commissioners he is more head scholar at university of North Carolina chapel and again, just an absolutely fine gentleman. He brings to the table his knowledge, skill and experience of  rural North Carolina, and he's worked for the community college system. I'm very aware of his past work and his He's worked for Rural North Carolina, especially Scotland County which is the 100th poorest county in North Carolina currently, and he desires to serve. He has the time, the ability, the skills and the knowledge to do so with great admiration for his state and for the school. Thank you Senator. Thank you very much sir, Alright two minutes we've stretched there for you we'll go back but first lets go a head and take the vote on Mcdonald to have someone to make a motion got to be a member of the committee? Here. I have a motion over here with senator Withered all in favour Aye any opposed alright the name of Terry Gainer will be submitted to the senate and we'll then go back to senator Clerk you didn't really get a chance to use your two minutes or your candidate Mr Biden Black will so you have two minutes okay it may be too long but the real things indeed to recommend [xx] being background [xx] showing the government relations for their North Carolina [xx] via hospital system, this has been an outstanding public servant in Cumberland County, he's a former County Commissioner, he's a former President of North Carolina County Commissioner's Associations. He's a former city council man in [xx] former mayor [xx] and he's also a recipient of the Order Of only fine and I just can go on

and on and on about the great public service they're being used and I ask for your consideration. Thank you Senator we will not need to go through that vote again. You did nominate him and we did vote for Biden Black so his name will be submitted and then we move on to Dr. Peter Conco[sp?], nominated by Senator Clay Wick[sp?] as, Center Clay Wick[sp?] would you like to use your two minutes for your? Yes, sir, I would. I would like to nominate Dr. Conco[sp?] we you have this resume, it's outstanding, he is pastor at First Christian church Ministries in Kernersville. Aside from his great mission work where he served in more than 25 countries around the world, he also is an outstanding community servant in our local community. He also has served on the board of directors of Kentucky Christian College, he's been active with our mayor's counselor. He's chairman of the board of Hastings International. Chairman of the Board of Next Step Ministries, Board of Trustees with Mid-Atlantic Christian University until last year he served in that capacity. He has distinguished awards, he's served on the Oxford Round Table, he's been Businessman of the Year, professional businessman and administrators Distinguished Award, he was voted the most outstanding young man in America in 1986 and he's coach soccer for many years, he spent his life teaching and mentoring young people through his community service, church activities, and his active involvement in participation in educating our young people and we appreciate your support. We have Dr. Peter Kunkle, stand put forth for nomination by Senator [xx] all in favor, aye, any opposed, the ayes have it will move ahead through the senate goal, and we have our forth nominee and that is Mr Clerk Tweety and he's nominated by Santa Cook, Santa Cook you have your two minutes. Thank you. Clerk Tweety today with the State Board of Community Colleges, he is an excellent excellent candidate most of you met him at around to clerk this morning on your desk is a summary if he's borrow and a letter for me so another boy was  peeling all those, his many accomplishments, just so far should he of excellent character, he is  a hard working man and I'm very, very proud to be able to introduce him to we and I recommend him for this position. Thank you Senator Cook[sp?] and Mr [xx] is here as well as [xx] and they would stand up so that those that are here you can see who they are and on the back left right their and the back right here. The motion is made by Senator Cook that we put the name forth of his candidate Mr Clerk Tweety the motion is made all in favor, say aye, Aye! Any opposed as we have it and we will send this four nominations forward will select two to go on to the community college board of trustees. Thank you very much for your help with that one and as this time we're moving on to the scheduled with us here alittle bit and will bring forth senate bill 343 which I will ask chairman Suche to take the mic and know we will go down here [xx] the motion to accept the peace from the senator Brown I do all in favor say Aye opposed No the Ayes have it and PCS is before us do you have a question? yes senator Such I'm wondering is there incarceration vote on this bill and I some how missed it or something? This is on the bill right. No mum we don't have an incarceration at this point.  Can we request one, At least it have to go judiciary and I'm sure we'll get one.  OK Thank you. Alright Sir do you question? Like wise Just comment, just comment on the stuff We'll get there, it's going to go through another committee Okay that may have some information on that I think that question should be answered go to J2 we will be placing the policy here. And Mr. Chairman. Yes Sir Senator Tillman. There is a good question it will be highly respected wherever we get wrong numbers because we've no doubt no history to check it, it would be very speculative that we will have whatever we can get.

Senator Tillman you are recognized to explain PCS. Thank you we're having more series of topics and pictures in the classroom many times in front of teachers and sometimes it's more than one student attacking a teacher, and this has become a serious problem across the Nation and it is beginning to manifested in North Carolina at about 1, 300 and some reported attacks on teachers last year and many of these, sorry to say, do not get reported. I don't know what the actual number would be, but you can be assured that it's higher than that I think it's a serious offence and needs some serious attention to highlight that this is a problem, and that you'll get more than a slap on the hand if this occurs. That's why I brought the bill forward and if you have questions we'll be glad to entertain them Mr. Chairman. Yes I see Senator Wade. Thank you Mr. Chairman. If someone is accused of a felony and they're convicted of felony, will the judge still have the possibility of what the sense will be, won't be mandatorious[sp?] Yes, DA's will still have discretion in what to bring forward because when you look at every case they're different, some are taxed or are much more violent than others and vicious and some are not, and I certainly would not be for bringing forth the felony, just stalling something that was very minor. There're all kinds of occurrences that could happen. You might be a teacher in trying to break out a fight, you might get inadvertently hit, but that was not with intent to harm the teacher and so forth, so there're many it will take some discretion from the DA's what charge to bring forward and certainly the judge will have discretion as always. Senator Pate Thank you Mr. Chair, I note that the bill limits this to a student who is 16 years of age or older. What occurs if the child is younger than 16 years? It'd be like it is now, it'd be a misdemeanor, be no change there. I saw a question from Senator Robinson. Thank you Mr. Chair. Senator Tillman couple questions or maybe to start. How do we define assaults in here? You just began to allude to it they're different degrees of what happens. What is that reporting system and how are assaults defined within the this system, it may be a sad question I don't know   Senator [xx] I think you've found the same problem that law enforcement has. What is the difference between an attack, an assault? And what's the difference between a [xx] shelve slap circle, we've never been able, I have not been able to see direct corrolation there but I'll ask the staff if they won't do they may have the definitions. Senator Hatsell may have one. [xx] Assault Bedford with research division. I left the Durham County District Attorney's office just a couple of months ago. Assault is not actually statutorily defined in North Carolina, it comes from the common well we accept both an over action as in a national strike as well as the show of force, intimidation so even if a person felt short of striking but obviously was aiming to intimidate and violently assault you. We'll recognize that as well follow up Senator Robinson Yes, follow up so I want you to clarify if [xx] the scar law says in terms of both kinds of actions. If a person was intimidating didn't infact strike and I'm not a lawyer may take some to [xx] but what [xx] you all say in terms of what does that constitute in terms of is it a misdemeanor that carries so many certain sentence or what? We the weakness I say as as if the actual striking the over dart or shower force it is differentiated for instance if the victim is a male it is a class one misdemeanor if the victim is a female it is a A1 misdemeanor presently as the law reads assaulting a teacher

and assaulting a female or both A1 misdemeanors if your teacher happens to be female, the way that the law reads right now there is no difference between proving that she was the teacher at work doing her duty when she was assaulted versus the same A1 misdemeanor by just having her testify that she is female so at that level it's the highest level misdemeanor would be assaulting a female or a handicapped person or a child under 12 does that clarify any of that? Thank you I saw [xx] Thank you Mr Chair, question I think for staff on this one you talked about the A1 misdemeanor you help me understand what the A1 misdemeanor is as opposed to other levels of misdemeanors in this case. As far as sentencing A1 misdemeanor you have a higher range. If you take for instance being that sentencing is based on someones prior record level let say you have a student that has no prior convictions. At an A1 misdemeanour the judge has the discretion within the sentencing block to give the students up to 60 days active. It's within the judges discretion as an A1 misdemeanour to give a suspended sentence, something in the community as far as sentencing that's all within the A1 misdemeanor block. If you have the same student in superior court with no record at the class I felony act of sentence off the back is not even a possibility. It actually a community sentence, so a judge would have to give them a suspended sentence in the Class I frelony block for a student with no record. If the record increased, if they had multiple prior convictions then they may see active time as far as the felony, but the judge has quite a bit of discretion as far as the one missing year, for the maximum 150 days active if the person had more than four convictions. Follow up. Follow up. Is there, could assault on a school employee if it inflicts serious bodily injury be charged with a felony or any discretion for district attorneys in charging that assault if there's bodily injury? It depends on the level of the injury even without the individual being school personnel. If you take just anyone of us that was injured, there's a Class A-1 misdemeanor that is serious injury, then there is a Class F felony that is serious bodily injury. Generally there has to be a protracted illness, infection, risk of death to get up to the Class F, but that's even without here is the past member of Scotland County Board Of Commissioners, he is more head scholar at university of North Carolina chapel hill and again, just an absolutely fine gentleman. He brings to the table his knowledge, skill and experience of rural North Carolina and he's worked for the community college system. I'm very aware of his past work and his. He's worked for Rural North Carolina, especially Scotland County which is the 100th poorest county in North Carolina currently. desires to serve. He has the time, the ability, the skills and the knowledge to do so with great admiration for his state and for the school. Thank you Senator. Thank you very much sir  Alright two minutes we've stretched there for you we'll go back but first lets go a head and take the vote on Mcdonald to have someone to make a motion got to be a member of the committee? Here. I have a motion over here with senator Withered all in favour Aye any opposed we also want to keep it in the context of kind of the educational side of things if we could. I did see a bunch of questions as far as Senator [xx] I believe. Mr. Chairman, the problem I see is, that we're actually idenfying any assault and not necessarily what Senator Tillman's speaking of which is literally technically an assault inflicting serious bodily injury. To me the issue here becomes, what is the definition of an assault for purposes of creating a felony? Because what we're doing here is we are creating a potential felony for a situation that doesn't necessarily involve inflicting serious bodily injury. We are deemed for any

assault which may not even involve a touching and that's the concern that I have. Mr. Chairman. Yes, Senator Tillman, you're recognized Your thinking is exactly right Senator Hardso. It's already a felony when you do verbally harm and verbally injury, so we would need the bill. I'm talking about those attacks that do involve physical attacks that may not involve injury. Okay? That's what we're defining here, but what I would suggest this is going to judiciary committee Mr. Chairman and this things although what we're asking Senator Hobbs so they're not necessarily in education thing, it is a judicial thing and I'm hoping we can pull two or three members of the judiciary committee together to work on further defining what this assaults are not necessarily bodily injury but it's not just an inadvertent push or shove. It's got to be more than that. How you define that is very difficult, okay, but that's what we've got work on but I appreciate the question, a very good one, sound like a lawyer to me. someone trying to have a [xx] Lopk Mag, given that conversation I have plenty, some of the saying legal concerns about it, but I'm going to let that be because I'm on J2, and we can vote, and I'm happy to know that senator Tillman is open to photo looking at defining it, knowing it so it doesn't have unintended consequence. You're going to take it away from J2 I don't know I am have more questions here. I'm Mr, chairman but anyway I want to just stick with educational more than educational angle on this I'm concerned if I will rely looking the picture in terms of using this particular approach to attend the problem of the fate for teachers there my be some stronger thing that we can do within the current scheme by creating the staff by even if it will be male aware we are talking about basically when it rain the opportunities of these particular children who obviously are rained have some kind of problem in terms of being well enough adjusted going forward. In terms of their future employment we basically are eliminating for them any opportunity for future employment. Over 60% of our employee years do not have people with felonies, and in North Carolina right now you can't get a felony expunged so their life would basically be over, that's number one. Two, and I want to ask staff this, what are the consequences for them in terms of public schools, can they come back, are there rules about felony and coming back, being involved in a public schools. We know it may challenge them in terms of any opportunities for college. Admissions, this will be on their record and any kind of higher education opportunity, it can even limit their opportunity of housing for their families. If perhaps their low income down on their luck need public housing, their's also rules in public housing they don't allow you in with convictions. So we are setting up a spurling effect that may be bigger than the problem compared, and we're speaking into the problem we're trying to solve if we have other options. So my question for staff are in terms of just the educational system itself what, can you advise me of what some of the collateral consequences are for this student with this felony if they get convicted of this felony. In terms of being in a public school system and any other educational consequences. Staff. If you know. Sure, there are number of folk in the audience that I'll tale a [**] at but I'll [**] on some of those people on. There are I don't its the felony in and on its self would cause you to be suspended or excluded from school but that is what [**] act was committed quickly to suspensionaly expulsion possibly there could be consequences for college admission purposes but again I think it depends on the type of conviction the felony extra. But like I said I will, there are folks I know in the audience who can speak to that much more articulately that I can. Follow up Mr chair.   Follow up. Can you say who some of those folks are Miss Chane could say who somebody else sort of him. Mr. [xx] Yes And we are we have other bores who are coming with us to get to I don't want

to get too deep in the woods or something where it's been too long process go through a lot of these questions can be answered. If you could address that specifically [xx] do law school, so, she might And then we are going to try to move on. Can please identify yourself? Thank you very much. My name is Jane Wettach, I'm a Law Professor at Duke Law School. I specialize in Education Law. I will say on the one question that North Carolina school statute 115C-366 state that anyone who is convicted of a felony can be denied admission in the public schools it is just discretionary with the school's district but the statute clearly allows exclusion from the public schools as a result of having a felony conviction. Thank you yes Senator Tillman I appreciate that but you can exclude them from school without a felony, you got many other ways you can exclude if you're talking about excluding from school and permanent expulsion there're other ways you can do that other than a panel [xx] Cook look, how long to move forty because the program is to discuss the [xx] most of the questions seem to go to criminal aspects rather than the educational aspects [xx] to all aspects so I'd like to know in fact I'd like to call it a question Well I'm going to hold that motion for just a minute I know we'd have some hands up but we I feel that we've talked about the educational issues. We are getting in to, its got a long process its got J. Warren, its got the floor, its got the house we've got to work through some of those things unless [xx] it doesn't really feel like it's education right now. Senator Wade, go ahead Look, probably in between I found that you can't really solve a problem by taking a piece of it. It's quite obvious that responsibility and individual responsibility comes in to play in this scenario of the stall man teacher. Is there any way that we can include the part that says the person came to school with sort of an attitude, that says this and get back at sanctions on the family, or the family surrogate that sends the child to school with that kind of predisposition and treat more of the problem than just the one in the school, because if you don't, you're banking here that the penalties for the assault will deter other folks from doing it, I think you need to start it both ends and work at it and I wondered if you could consider putting something like that in this. Senator Telmen do you have an oppose to that? Make it legend for what will happen here is [xx] Not good enough and that's [xx] saying to this day and any other [xx] I see Senator Brian, Raid and Davison are going to call for the vote. We have senator Brian. I just got a comment, I just know when I was was killed in the assault would have taking place when I go to home. But that's what has changed in society and is a shame that you don't have even this video because you [xx] I think Senator Rabon touched down it is, past just didn't allow these things to happen back in my time, if just didn't happen. It's a shame you got to do wails type bill but this is a complex bill and I think it probably don't need to Senator Telmen just to work through all these issues. But again it's just a shame we got to do with this stuff. Senator Wade did you have a question? Thank you Mr. Chairman. Senator Telmen how many assults did you say occur in in schools  like that? Violent nature though there was over 1300 reported last year. Is 13 says for this to be on the increase? Sadly  there are increasing and sadly younger and younger kids are committing more violent crimes that is all also a statistics that is very alarming folks, didn't used to be that way. Follow up? Follow up. So on the educational part this is just your way of trying to do something to decrease the number of problems that we all are having with the schools with assaults? It will be a very serious offense and I think that will be well known. Parents and students have all

been well informed about this new law if it passes, and I do think it will say it's a serious things and none of us want teacher under attack and that's why I'm doing. Senator Davis. Thanks Mr. Chair. Senator Tillman you really have two questions, but want start the first. You said over 1, 300 violent assaults, of those how many of those actually result in a maximum penalty under the current law? I don't know [xx] were expelled for 10 days and then some of them were probably expelled for the whole year, I do not know that statistics. We maybe able to get it, we may not. OK, follow up? Follow up. OK strictly on education since studies intent what efforts has taken place within the education community they're reaching out with social workers sent[sp?] team to really look at what might lead to such behavior and how might[sp?] to the escalate and deal with violence in our schools. I wish I knew the answer if I did I'll be back running the schools instead of over here playing this kind of role. They do everything guidance and counselling in schools suspension out of school suspension counselling, social services this kids have already most of them been the gamut[sp?] of everything that they can try up to making it a felony. So we're doing we are this things and final follow up? Follow up if we have not communicated with the education community do you believe that this maybe premature and that we actually will bring them to the table to see how we might engage[sp?] violence in our schools Senator I've not heard from the Educational Community. They are not opposed to this Bill, so, [xx] I have talked to in CAE and everywhere else, they most think it's time time to do this. So, no, I think it's time to act and not go back and try to make these halfway measures because many of them have already been tried Thank you. We all out of time but we do have a motion for a favorable report. [xx] it will be a  action favorable to PCS, unfavorable to the original bill, all in favor say Aye. Aye. Oppose No. No. And the ayes have it and this will be moving on through the process. Alright, I'm going to continue. Let's go ahead and let's take two or three minutes and you know what we all have some questions. We're going to have to differ this Bill and displace it till next week. We have you on account for next week and I appreciate your attention here, we will have as were heading towards crossover we going to have to acute moving through this so we can get as many additional meeting if necessary so I appreciate your time and the meeting is adjourned.