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House | June 11, 2015 | Committee Room | Appropriations

Full MP3 Audio File

If we can bring the committee to order please. This is the Appropriations Committee, if you think you want to be in Finance it's one floor down. Let me start by welcoming first, introducing our Sergeant-at-arms, we've got Carton Adams, Joe Austin, Martha Gadison, Young Bae, Charles Godwin and Cory Bryson with us, and thank you. Pages today if you'll stand up when I call your name, Sabrina BreweR from Mecklenburg, Representative Daughtry is the sponsor. Carson Guts[sp?] from Wake, also Representative Daughtry, Mathew Capollo[sp?] from New Hanover, Representative Davis Parker. CastleBerry from Wake. Representative Robenson, Douglas Cole from wake, Representative Holly and Cody Moses from Meconberg[sp] are representative Jitter[sp]. Welcome, we have on our agenda this morning there are four bills that are no destined on reference to House Bill 372, house bill 372 was reported out of help relatively late yesterday afternoon, we will not be taking it up from today, just watch, there will be another full appropriations meeting. Next week, mid week probably to take up that bill and perhaps some other bills. The chair will be taking this a little bit out of order because I believe we are missing the bill itself on house bill 119 and we're missing this bill's summary, excuse me the committee's to house bill 250 and once the paper walk around on those two I will work on them, so lets move immediately to house bill 119 representative Ford and you worked for that okay we can forward on okay we will pull house bill 119 off is representative Centrah[sp?] here? representative Bumgarder can you tell on house bill 287 among insurance role Mr chair. speech that bill was very beautiful On how, No no for next week. For next week, possible next week with that 354. House bill 372 will be for next week. Rep. Webson Fangary[sp].. Thank you Mr. Chairman this bill is One of our PCS owner okay, this bill is one that the parliament inventions ask for technical correction and creates a study committee on health insurance premierms and I can go through a long explanation and here we appreciate your vote Representative Torbett Thank you Mr. Chair, thank you you are representing Bobgodner can you give me a little on there why does they thought there was need for study committee on health care manifest? I did specifically ask that creating a committee to study premiums and what happens storms and I didn't ask if representative of the departments here he can speaks about that. Follow up Mr. Chairman.

Follow up. Yeah I was trying to have a study committee usually you have, not a desired outcome, but you have an end game. We trying to figure out what their game would be, what their hopes what the discovery or just what the objective was on the study committee. I understand that Mr. Popkin[sp?] is here from the department if he wants to be heard? Thank you Mr. Chairman, representative Bob Garner. This is a department requested study what we had to do is review rate review practices in other states to try and to ensure that we were following best practices here. This was requested by the department simply to try to review, and see if there were any efficiencies we any efficiencies we can identify in other States practices. It's $150, 000 appropriation requested and if of course any appropriations that you see fit to provide to us or reimburse from our regulatory surcharge so ultimately would be a net zero impact on the general funding follow up Mr. Chairman?   Representative Tobert, Thank you. Thank you for the answer. The first thing just pop in my head when you were commenting is that, is that something that you don't do on-going all the time? well we do certainly monitor general practices in general, but some of our internal analyists had had to do a more comprehensive detailed analysis than our existing staff normally have an opportunity to do, but this was a preference if we were able to go ahead and pursue it, but it certainly it's not in response to an identified gap or issue. This was just something that we had hoped to try to stay current with. Final follow up Mr. Chairman. Well proceed. If you could look somewhat beyond the horizon, and let's say, this study group is concluding its work do you have any hope for us, or we think we'll see, or any hope thing along those lines? I don't know that we had a particular intended outcome of this, but we do know that there are a whole range of options that departments of insurance across the country use in receiving findings and reviewing them, and so my understanding again is our analyst had hoped to get a chance to look at it more, in more details fashion than our normal monitoring is, but we didn't have an intended outcome for the study, we simply hoped to get a chance to look at it up close and report any recommendation that we might see but not with a particular outcome in mind. Thank you Mr Chairman, Representative [xx] for learning studies place. Representative Neo, thank you. My question is on section five, and I know you said this is just a technical. But this is increased a penalty from a class to a class c felony, and I'd like you to explain the difference in the class eight and class c. Do you have a concentration note, and has it been to a J committee. Thank you for that question. Yes. This is a situation were we have had instances of fraud involved lose to the victim, that involved parties over $ 100000, and we requested raising the felony level to the consisting with the felony levels that existed on the standard general broad or criminal offences of that kind for the equivalent criminal offence, if the law succeeds a $100000, the felony level, shifts up to a class C offence and we have had, not many instances, but occasional instances where the loses has been significant, and the district attorneys have felt that the low level felony offence that exist now, for the insurance specific application, is not enough of an incentive that they have chosen to persue it vigorously. There has been a incarceration note conducted on this, I don't believe this bill has gone to a J committee, but the incarceration note has been completed, and I believe the number of instances that this comes up showed no specific identified cost and the penalty would allow for an active jail term potentially with the classy felony, I believe I have the felony levels her and I'll pull those out if you'd like   Representative McNeil Questions? Representative Glazier I'd like to follow Mr. Chair, Representatives McNeill's question and have exactly the same question as I I read section five and I agree in the need to increase the penalty for the higher 100, 000 over 100, 000, but here is what you have in C2 if the value is less than 100, 000 so 99, 500 it's an

age felony in which you can get share time, but you can also get probation depending on whether you have a record. If you go $1 over, it jumps not to a G or a D or an E or an F all of the it jumps to a C which is classifications that we generally think are just shy of madder and you can be in jail for years, and years, and years, and years, and years that makes no sense at all to me in the scale and has got to be seriously out of work, with others maybe the age is too low but the C is definitely too high and this really needs to be reviewed. To equate this to enormously violent offences that are B and C's and it just I agree with representative McNeill they are a real problems here. Representative Fair Cross  Thank you Mr chairman question for the, Go ahead ask your question. Thank you again on that same section was the sentencing commission involved in any recommendations or was that decision made by the [xx] attorneys. Go ahead. No sir. The [xx] commission was not consulted and I certainly empathize with representative Glazier concern about that our interest was only making this penalty level mirror the obtaining property by false pretence which would is a general statute 14-100. That is the threshold and penalty level that 's included in that and so we have thought that rather than having the insurance penalty be significant different in lower we would just make a correspondent to the criminal offence but we are not compelled to try to find any exorbitant penalty for that is simple it should match the criminal offence that they mirrors these actions.  Representative Bobgodner given the discussion on this point you'd be willing I'm on the track of two committee and would, if you are Ok with this I would ask I guess the rules chair when it comes back to be reported in to get a referral back to the  Jay committee to just look at the criminal penalty. Would that be okay with the sponsors?  Thank you for that Mr. Chairman and I'm also on J2 and I'd be happy to have a hearing on this bill in J2 if you want to refer it there. Okay, are there any other question Representative Tuobe  Thank you Mr. Chairman. I'm going back to the health insurance premium rate review modernization study either question for Representative Bemb Garner or the gentlemen from the department. My question is, you mentioned saying on the other 49 for doing, I understand that that we do them all the time. Was it calculated in or do you foresee any out of state travel for this review committee in desired or trying to find those outcomes from other states? It's not been my expectation thank you Mr. Chair, that there would any out of state travel. My understanding is simply that our analysts had hoped to potentially with some other experts who looked at this area conduct a more comprehensive review of other states practices for rate review but we were certainly not intending to have any travel or site visits or anything along those lines. Thank you Mr. Chairman. I was going to ask about the reporting hours but I see it is noted specifically under section nine so I'll conclude my questions. Thank you Further questions, further comment. Understanding representative I would just move for a favourable with referent referral to. Sorry. and your motion is, representative Mishaelle[sp?] Mr chairman I think the problem here is is that, if we're going to send this to J2, that we shouldn't take any that we should not take an action other than just sending to a recommendation it'd be sent to J2 for further look at and that would be my motion. Restate your move the motion please the motion is that bill be referred to J2 without prejudice Mr chairman Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Chairman, we don't need that motion. The motion we need and I'd be prepared to offer it is, we move for a favorable report for House Bill 287, with a recommended [xx] referral to Judiciary to You referred the motion for the Representative Enslo[sp?] I just like to comment that the reason that motion that I would support that motion is because what we are approving in this committee is only the appropriations part of the Bill, thank you. The vote is on the motion then. All in favor of the motion indicate by saying, aye, aye. Opposed? We will move the Bill long thank you, Representative Ron Gutter[sp?]. Now we're going back to House Bill 19. We should have the summary of that now, Representative Graham. Thank you Mr. Chair and to the members of house bill 19 is a fairly simple bill to amend it's existing law to include a legal guardian or legal custody custodian of a fallen officer or fire fighter for a waiver tuition at the UNC system and the community college level. It's supported by the UNC system and also has support of the this law enforcement associations and I certainly appreciate your support. This bill did pass the university committee unanimously and this is where we are today, I'll be glad to try to answer any questions discussion or questions on the bill of Representative Speshall[sp?] Well, I like the idea concept of having an idea of what this is going to cost Thank you, I with speak to folks relative to the cost of this and since we're talking about something is very rare in North Carolina. There is no data that I've been able to find in terms of cost because the cost will be very minimal at this point because we just don't have data to support or to demonstrate what the cost would be and I would defer to staff on Mr. Chair if there's an opportunity for that Is anyone on staff, could add to the answer that's been provided to the question, you see. Yes sir, [xx] of Physical Research, a physical note was done on a companion bill senate bill 37 and there was no estimate available but we do expect the if to be negligible there are handful of waivers under the current program right now and I believe for UNC the number of wavers for academic year 2012 13 is about 13 dollar, 13 with average tuition waived to 3500 for academic year 2013/14 there were ten rivers graded in average situation width was about 44000 representative fought at the appropriate time Representative Brody, Thank you Mr Chairman, just a question, because I don't know the answer to this one is this a redundant benefit for example if somebody is hurt exactly like you say whether it's a guardian or it's your real children does the sole security system have provisions for they may not require the system to provide you provide waver of tuition but they provide enough money so that they can go to the university would this be a redundant benefit, it's all I'm asking  well that's a good question well I'm not not knowing that system and understand, I would like to differ staff if they could,  could staff respond to that question thank you good morning Tawanda Forster, staff attorney research division. When someone dies the child can get or minor can get the apparent social security money but there is no education benefit in that so it does not go directly towards tuition. Representative Stevens  Thank you Mr. Chair and I too

think it's a great idea to help out law enforcement families but don't we already having in statute as well $100, 000 immediate benefit if you are killed in the line of duty as part of the workers compensation law and don't we have substantial other benefits that could be used for this same purpose? I guess that's a question to staff,  yes can staff respond to question do you need it restated Again? Could you restate the question, sorry, for an officer killed in the line of duty isn't there also an automatic $100, 000 payment from workers compensation in that set up separately in statute? Representative Stevens I am not that familiar with the workers comp statutes to be able to speak to with the benefits are we can certainly ask one of our colleagues to has more expertise in that area to get back to you. Chairman Dollar and then Representative Cleveland well, unless I'm reading something wrong here on house bill 19, all we're really doing, we have an existing benefit that if memory serves me was actually a house initiative I think I may be wrong about that. The bills passed at the Senate, all this bill does is simply add legal guardian and legal custodian because you could have a scenario and I think it has scenario where you had a natural born child that was able to in the unfortunate circumstance that we're talking about here, was able to access this tuition in way out but an adopted child was not, so this is just simply making sure that really that all of the children that is very narrow, relatively small group of individual who lost their parent may not have been a biological parent but is a parent, the mom and a dad in very tragic circumstances and we're just trying this bill create an equal have a quality among those children or between one family and another so, I think that's the best the heart of what this bill very simply trying to do. The speaker, you want a further respond? Yes Sir. Mr has, said exactly what I was going to say. This is an expansion only to the extended the legal guardian of the custodian, is also being covered. Parents are already the existing law, this will give penalty to other families with the similar legal standing.  Representative Stevens do you want to follow up? Thank you, and didn't that bring several different set of question sort of me. How far do we go with legal guardian is that a child that the mother may have legal custody of, when it's a second marriage, is it a step child situation, does it matter what the other the real father dose, and may have his way of income that can contribute. I understand the intend of what we are trying to do here, but how far does legal guardian go? In a answer that questions?  Someone to post a research decision. The categories of legal custodian custodian and legal guardian, require a court order, of guardianship or custody. The term are pretty much unanimous when it come to the court order, the only difference in legal custodian and legal guardian, is the way that, that relationship can be challenged. For example, a legal custodian that's ordered a such by the court can be challenged upon a finding that there's a substantial change of circumstances in the child's life, I mean it's no longer in the best interests of the child to have that person at their legal guardian, and I'm sorry as their legal custodian. For legal guardianship, if the grant and guardianship or from the core. And that can be challenged, if there is evidence that, the relationship between the guardian and the child is no longer in the child's best interest, the guardian is unfit, or the guardian has neglected the guardians duties, or the guardian is unwilling or unable to continue with their duty. Representative of Cleveland. Mr. Chairman, can I get on the list please?   I got you there. Representative Cleveland  Thank you Mr Chairman. I understand that were just adding a few people to this list but I I'm looking at section three seven and reading that and

I guess my problem is we have to take care of those who serve us we have to worry about their family and their children and I really have no problem with that but I think we are getting a bit generous and section 37 were saying they get the waiver anything have any scholarship they can put them towards an incidental cause and what not and if we keep going this path I really don;t know where it's going to end or if it will ever will end.  I think some common sense as to to be brought into this Representative Turner. Thank you Mr Chairman question has been answered thank you. Representative martin Thank you Mr chair. I think Representative Stevens is asking the right question, anytime were looking to extend the benefit we need to ensure that there are clear cut-offs but in the end the senior chairs points are spot on we've already made the policy decision to extend this benefit to children whose parents are killed in the line of duty and in the end thank goodness, there's only a relatively small number of those folks each year, so the cost there is already not that great.  When we talk about adding in an additional group of folks killed in the line of duty who had children for whom they were a guardian, et cetera it's a very, very small number there, so in the end while we do need to be good custodian of the tax payer dollars we need to make sure that were not putting so many barriers there that in the end it's the child who, through no fault of their own, doesn't have an actual parent but instead has guardians, that they're not suffering, where the national child or adopted child would not suffer so I think Chairman Bowlers[sp?] points are very well taken while we need to look at this carefully, without a doubt having already made the policy decision to extend it to National Adopted Children, it makes good sense to take the very, very tiny step so we don't punish these other children. Representative Insko and then Representative Richardson, Representative Insko. Well, I think that I'm just going to repeat what Representative Martin just said, I'm looking at the title of the bill. This is for children who's legal guardians or legal custodians are law enforcement officers, fire fighters or rescue squad workers. These are very modest to low income families, but they happen to be guardians of the children instead of parents of the children. So this is a very narrow extension and not in any way too generous. It's a comfortable extension. Representative Richardson and then representative Faircloth, representative Richardson. Thank you Mr. Chairman. My question is, should we add a clause, and maybe this is just me that based on the financial need of the family at the time of entrance into college, would that help us ensure, and I know that these people have lost their lives based on their services to us, but would that be a clause that we could add that determining what their financial need is at that time, and then making this available to those who qualify on a financial needs basis? Representative Gram. You know I'm standing before a group here and I'm trying to and I think there's been some real nice comments made here in support of this bill. I would not at this point want to do that, I think it is very clear what the intent of this bill is, I brought this to to the committee on behalf of the young men who lost his father in my district wanted to continue in the [xx] did not have the financial means to continue with his education and for the best of my knowledge they are not in school because they did not have financial support, so this point am very comfortable with language and I am very comfortable with the intent and I appreciate the support.  Kelvin Dollar for further response. well, I'll just cut to the chase. I don't think we want to be taking away from the current benefit that we are providing for the having children of law enforcement office, firefighters and rescuesquad workers, I don't know many of them that were fabulously wealthy, I don't think you necessarily want to go down that track.

Representative Faircloth. Thank you Mr. Chair and my question has been answered. Representative McNeil. For a motion at the appropriate time. I believe Representative Floyd had requested that honor. Any further discussions? Representative Floyd. Bill 19 doesn't have a referral. You had the motion, any further discussion. If not the vote is on the motion. All in favor indicate by saying I, I opposed, the motion passes. Thank you Mr. Chair. Thank you Representative Graham. We now move to House Bill 250 Representative Holly, I believe you've got a short clip. Do you want to show that first? Or do you want to, okay. If we can dim the lights and bring up the Mr. Chairman Representative Shaw I move that we adopt both committee substitute for purposes of discussion. Thank you, I was going to do that next but we do have a PCS on House Bill 250, the motion is to put the PCS before us all on favour of the motion indicate it by saying aye? Opposed. The PCS is before us, Representative Holley you need any introduction to this or? No thank you Mr Chair. We are going to do a brief clip on Pilot Project that has already been done in [xx] camp. Thank you. This is a story about three locally owned convenience stores with one thing in common, they sell fresh produce. We got strawberries, the cabbage, quash, zucchini. We have like grapes, oranges, bananas, Apples, orange, bananas fresh and good to start. As a part of a pilot projects with local health departments these stores added fresh fruits and vegetables or expanded their supply. The health departments provided technical assistance for food safety and marketing agri-refrigeration as well. It's been a success. Actually I have a lot of support from the customers from the neighborhoods and driving through is like wow! Convenience store have that kind of stuff? That's amazing, and thank God it's working out for us very well. This simple step can have three key benefits. First, it brings healthy foods into areas where they aren't normally found [xx] serves the population of tips so it's going to end, and sometimes I try to put something healthy in his slice, and I'll say OK, it's time to take take apple, take banana, take mango it's very sweet, and I give you good price for us to try it. And it therefore  sometimes they taken some  fruit And put the chunky food outside.   2nd, it can benefit North Carolina farmers as well you can raise produce so you can act and put it all in this farm and produce and have tonnes and tonnes of produce, but if I don't have a place to sell it its going to rot in 3 days and have lost everything, so having access to your market has to come before you willing to go out and plan a bunch of extra produce And 3rd, it helps the store owners expand their business with a product that can have a high profit margin. I see the profit as a lot better in a lot of different items in my store, the percentage wise is a lot higher in everything else even higher than hot dog remember it is on a soft drinks  it doesn't seem like but it is. David Josh and Hessus all make money from selling fresh produce. We're growing and I think this is becoming part of the community and should be sustainable for many years I hope, And they all have strong relationships with the people in their communities  I like this shop and I love it and I do just because when I see thirsty community, if you like to see discus them as walking to the store on daily basis, OK and you stay healthy, feed them hope healthy choices can be right around the corner. Find out how you can help at ncallianceforhelp.org We can bring the lights back up. Thank you, Representative Holly. Thank you Mr. Chair I don't want to repeat what was in the video and what was

said on the floor, but this is a bill that affects everybody in every county in the state of North Carolina, and we and we hope that you could have this support we have some supporters here from both the house and the senate. I'll be very brief. We did dedicate an entire house study committee to this last year. We looked at 28 different prototypes this was one of the ones that offers a layer in the solutions strategy hopefully to address the obesity the extreme cost, $54 billion a year attributed to items that are direct or indirectly related to overweight diabetes, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink but we if can offer and better connect agriculture to markets and help in a bigger, bigger scale address a problem that nationally is dragging us down in so many ways whether it be in areas of health, areas in worker productivity, areas in one out of four of our individuals young enough the military and eligible due to overweightness. This is just something, sometimes you got to spend money to make money. There is an appropriation on this, some people say it philosophically goes against the free market to argue that this is one of those cases where we need to look the bigger greater picture to try and address a problem that's really dragging us down in many ways and ask for your support. [xx] Thank you so much members for coming together this morning and obviously re visiting this matter I will be brief as well. I've been working on the Senate side with the companion bill, I'm working with Senator Pate and other and we do have those who are in our delegation. Representative former Butterfield Brown have been working on this two of the pallets are in Pitt county. One is in district in [xx]  I can definitely share that. We've gone with the Mayor, the County Commissioners and we've all gone to the location this is working, it's working and we see that we're getting good results and I will simply say, that, I see this as a win, win, win. It's a win for the economy, it's a win for farmers, win for the community and I remember keep often and these raw spots that you walk in, you're consuming what in those stores and I think when you create win-wins across the board for our community for health, we also create wait for the state and thank you for your consideration again. Thank you senator, I've got a pretty long list already, I just want to tell folks got a session today at 10 o'clock I do intend to take a vote on this before we leave here. Representative Avalon and Representative Millers, Representative of Avalon.   Thank you Mr. Chairman and here's where I'm going to get labelled as hard-hearted and cruel and throwing people under the bus, there was a statement made in your clip that stated fairly emphatically that these owners of these convenient stores made money selling their produce and you've mention that you talked with city council mayors, you've talked with county commissioners, did anybody think to go to the banks? and let's use the free market system, I know you addressed this Representative Wittman but I'm not sure that you approached it with that solution in mind and I find too often down here we interject ourselves because we are the easy way to get money and we can dictate where to spend it, how to spend it and I just basically have a concern that the community as a whole hasn't been brought in see this process and I'd really rather see it set up that way and as good as the intentions are, I'd like to see you go back to the drawing board and setup a free market approach because it can work if you talk to the right people and get him committed does the direction of everything in life today is for the good of the children and the good of the community, the good of the pension so I just a little concern that we tend to solve everybody's problems with somebody's else's money.  Any of the primary [xx] correspond, I plan to have the answer that certainly hit square on that year ago as passed when we did have, we turned out as

many stones as we could to find prototype that were working and could work what we found with the corner stone in [xx] in case anybody missed it the whole intend here is when you have various where the first thing that available is a honey bun, a twecky or a mark a waver-able hamburger having something nutritious as an option to buy if he so chooses key now some will say, some of the foods not fit to eating I would argue that all [xx] if you are going this round and you are making for it, it's so appeasing and not going to be [xx] you are going to lose out little quick what we found in the that we're working in Pitt county I think was David [xx] I cant't remember the name he was here and he spoke [xx] down stairs underneath this. There was a tipping point. We did look at some various ways where certain [xx] etcetera, and I won't speak for Representative Holy, but as far as the overall picture of trying to find one of hopefully be several solution structures, no golden [xx] in various measures, address and find ways to mitigate our obesity problem this is one of them. How you go about it with regard to where the money comes from, there may be something if there was an amendment in the future that would have different ways to address that, I think the bigger picture getting places where you can have nutritious food and what places for people get. I'm not an economist, I'm not a banker, but if you have something to offer it would certainly be received. But on the other hand we dug and dug and dug and this is a tipping point to our health and that's where the request for the appropriation comes from.  Representative [xx] Follow up, I noticed in your clip a lot of the display was open no need for refrigeration that wouldn't cost anything, and I guess my question is where did the gentleman get the money for coolers for his beer and sodas?  Representative Polly. Thanks for asking that question, most of the convenient stores get their coolers from the vendors who are selling the products so the Pepsi and the Coke guy comes in and they put the the refrigeration in that's one of the reasons why we felt this might be a good match to help put refrigeration and the shelving in some of this areas that don't have it to house this fresh produce, and I also want to address the fact that when we were looking at this is just part of solving a huge problem and we do hope that if we market picks this up what we heard from convenient stores were we need help we don't know how. We don't know how to sell fresh produce and we don't know how handle it and that's why this program is so important because it gives them that resource to learn how to do it and it and it helps to needed connections Senator quickly so I can continue the number of people. Thanks Mr Chair I think that adequately answers the question the one thing that I would just convey is I see this as where good policy meets the economy and what I mean by that as we continue to make ways for healthier living there will be savings because just thunk about those who are going thee will be savings and were having some tremendous discussion right now this body regarding medicaid's possibly how that looks and the last thing I'll simply say, is, this is not a giveaway to that store. I'm just reminded this is generated, we manage through the Health Departments, and it's just not a handout to the store room. Representative Millers over here, to you left. Thank you Mr Chairman, and I'm going to keep my comments brief, I don't doubt the good intentions of you all are both in the house as well as the senate, and I do think you have a good heart about this matter. But good intention don't always lead to good results and the video that was shown, as well as the testimony that was given, as well as the bill we had on the house four, are regarding the budget. Is that this will be a wonderful debate if we are citizens in the community, if we were a capable organisation, but we are State Gorverment we have the power, to take peoples money by force, and we have the power, to spend those moneys. And to me this is

clearly outside of the role of government first and foremost, I've heard it quotes here, in the video, that there's a high profit margin on this, Again I think it's a good testimony why it needs to be done privately and not at all, in the icebergs subsidize inefficiently by government. I heard by the bill sponsors here, that you can't he can lead a horse to water, but he can't make it drink. Exactly. I mean as a kid, I could be and section one of this bill, this bills another findings, and I had garden in my backyard. As a kid, you can lead a horse to all you want to but you're not going to make it [xx] and I heard the phrase that you've got to spend money to make money, it's very simple, spend your own money to make money don't spend other people's money to make money. I'm highly against this bill, I probably have  good intentions, this is clearly outside the role estate government. I love to have this talk independently by a way of charitable organizations, not by the charity that has become the state North Carolina Representative Holly. Thank you for your comment, Representative. I would like to say one of several things, this is not a hand out, this is a hand up, and we have had so many counties coming to us and say, we don't have access, help us have access,  so where since it came out of the study bill, what's that? There are things being done in parts of the state that aren't being done in to the state and the state of North Carolina has to step up and be the resource and a catalyst that starts something. We've spent a whole lot of money and trying to how about let's expand some businesses that we currently have here, let's look out for the state of North Carolina. And I'm sorry I'm preaching. Representative Witlie keep it short if you could please. Representative  was next. Very brief. The meeting of the governor this place and staff, folks so many things that are fresh produce, if you're talking about vegetables, they don't keep long and they certainly don't keep if you throw them in a drink cooler, so don't be confused with that. The house budget does have this year, we had a healthy debate on it. The bigger picture in my book is we are trying to do something with our health issues, but this also does better connect agriculture to markets for the extra needed he makes it possible so I think its worthy expense. Representative Speciali and then representative Penolton. I got a question first before and then like comment what is the [xx] this is the same as what we discussed the other day the protocols. You are breaking up cost of this. The cost of this is approximately a million dollars to get this program off the start. Okay. Go ahead. I want to apply a dash and his seals for this success but that success comes at the expense of the taxpayers and that is something we have to realize I part all of you, your favour your energy for this I think is great, but again we are talking about we have been entrusted with tax payers money and you keep say that this is not a hand out it's a hand up that's great we got nice cliches and everything else, but the point is is I'm herding, but it says that these people are going to be paying it back. I've heard nothing about this is loan to get their refrigerators so it is a hand out in fact and you are going to make high profits from it for those succeed many will not succeed, and the reason many will not succeed is because when you go to a convenient store I've said it before and I'm going to say it again, okay I go to the convenient store to get a cup of coffee and a honey burn, I don't go there to get broccoli or black bananas and most people are the same way, if this works and in apparently it did for Haysues, that's great, he should have started it with he's own funding. Those areas, those entrepreneurs that believe that this will work, they should go for it. I think that's great, but the free market will dictate whether or not this is going to work and I don't think that we should be spending tax payer dollars on all these high ended ideas that we have Representative Penilton, Representative Graham Thank you Mr Chair, and I want to make a brief comment. I know we're running short on time but I support this bill for several reasons and I will quickly review why I do that. I live in rural county to get to a healthy food stands somebody has to walk we are talking about here is about fifteen or twenty minutes drive,

if we are talking about health care and promoting health care this is one of the ways we can do that is by eating healthy. To put this cold staff and low [xx] is know standing policy and I support it I'm not against roads food or any other chain or organisation having their display there nice vegetable displays on that I have people in my county who cannot get to this place who cannot get to this place without paying someone to take them to that store. So this is a good idea I support it it is a good policy and I thank you for bring it to us Representative Stevens then representative [xx] representative Stevens. Thank you I will be incredibly brief Representative Avila, Representative Millis, and Representative Speciale covered all my points. Representative Insko and representative Palmer. This is a public issue. Obesity is a serious public health's problem. Obesity is costing tax payers an enormous amount of money. You aren't going to get a short-term return on investment on dealing with obesity, this is a long-term return on investment, and the only question for me is does it work and we've already seen evidence that it works. This is a positive, constructive use of taxpayer dollars. We've got to solve the obesity problem. It's affecting our entire country representative Palmer and then representative Almore. Okay representative Palmer of Butterfield.  I'm sorry I thought you said palming. Thank you Mr. Chair. Representative [xx] Holly, Senator Davis, Representative Whitmore, Graham, have stated exactly what my points are. When you live in a community, and you had a grocery store and it left because there wasn't a profit level that was required, and you have a lot of senor citizens in the community, transportation is an issue, children do not have access to healthy foods, go to [xx] North Carolina in [xx] County and you will find that situation. People in that community have been trying  for years to get healthy food and a grocery store. This makes a difference. If senior citizens seems large transportation issues you got to put the food for the people around and it get affordable to them. These people have to travel 15 and 20 miles to get to a grocery store folks. You talk about free enterprice? You got to start somewhere maybe it will a part of free enterprise once it's proven that it is successful in the works across the state and it will become is explainable that we need to open the door and give us the opportunity for people in rural community to the East and North Carolina for a change please support this. thank you Representative Armour and Representative Arrow. Thank you Mr. Chairman I want to and the pre market perspective that has been argued if you go to one of our super centers or big chain stores that  cucumber is currently when you look what is coming from is probly coming from somewhere and help me with this and the reason why is the VHC prober and the produce production to product be early day ship it in. With government intervention and a lot of our farmers [xx] especially with the issue of tobacco many of our farmers have lost their cash crop that they use to turn a profit on their farms. One of the biggest economic problems we're having right now with the farmers lack of food processing facilities to take the products to get processed. If we're going to help our farmers in North Carolina, produce is a good cash crop for them they can raise a certain amount of produce and sell it. We're seeing this already with the rise of small farms selling these boxes once a month full of produce the people we're participating with. Something like this will create a little spark to help our local farmers and help especially these small farmers get the cash crops back in the fields. So I think from the free market perspective government interventions mainly involved in food forever, something like will help especially the small farmers in North Carolina so I'd urge your support. Representative Earl Representative Floyd, Representative [xx] Thank you.

I've heard a lot said this morning about whose money we're talking about and it's not government's role, this is everybody's money, all the tax payers I think most tax payers would see that this would be a good use of their funds. It's one of these situations that I see ways like pay me now or pay me more later and this is the inside role of the government because if we can invest a million dollars now, can you imagine the amount that we are going to save on the back end because as a result of folk eating healthier then we're going to see a reduction in diabetes and high blood pressure and a lot of these other issues and a lot of these people are, or will be, maybe, on medication Medicaid where we will be picking up the bill for the expenses, we will keep them from going to Emergency Rooms, so this is our responsibility, we're talking about keeping the cost down in Medicaid that's what we've talking about since we've been here is reducing the cost of Medicaid. To me, for a million dollars this is one of the best investments that we can make as far as reducing our cost for Medicaid and having a healthy to the public. Representative Floyd we will take about a little over 10 minutes I've got six speakers still on the cue, Representative Floyd then Representative Johnson. Mr Speaker I think that at one point at time I'm upgrading the convenience door  and I upgrade the convenience door for private, for private I upgrade it there and I saw what it took to make a profit. I live in sitting room suddenly and about five mile radious, wall map is finally coming into that community which is a senior population and just think about this now, just think about this, every group that goes across their town this great state collects single tax, everytime that individual to drive o next door and he who want to drive to next door someone put some gears and when we get some tax around that. So when we look at the whole issue is given by a project and is senated and I don't think we will see in North Carolina, that comes to North Carolina, before they come, they want something to come. If they don't receive anything I can assure you Virginia South Carolina, which is taken all of  the house  now, is going to attract those industry. So the whole thing of it is do we pay now, or do we pay later? And that's the whole key, because what I've seen in my community, when I was in high school, there were a lot of attractive females that I would jump over this table for now, just to dance with them, but now they're bodybuilders you know, because they can't get the nutritious food that they need, so this is a good bill. The state of North Carolina in return from sale tax and gasoline tax will recoup the benefits. Representative Johnson then Representative Ford. Thank you Mr. Chair. I'm not going to repeat what was already said. What I am going to just say is that my county, which is not a small county, Gilbert County, is number one in the nation, for food deserts. Number one. are we the third largest county in the State, so we're paid a hard cost right now for Medicaid right now, and I wonder how many of those issues that deal with obesity diabetes we're number one in the nation and that's nothing to be proud of. Thank you. Representative Ford interrupt senator Glazier, representative Ford. Thank you Mr. Chairman, I think these convenient stores are making plenty of profit. I watched the clip, I saw the prices, they were charging three prices for the food you can get at a lot less in just about anywhere else, so they're in for the profit more powered to him, I hope they make all the profit they can but I don't think we need to subsidize them and like and more they can use. It's about profit, let him make the profit, let him sell the orange for a dollar and a quarter and all the other food an apple for $1,

1/2 etcetera etcetera so it's much cheaper everywhere else, so they're making a profit, let them spend some of that profit it's true you have to spend money to make money and that's for a private business not for government, and we got to keep that mind and government needs to get back to provide the essential services, end of story representative Glazier and then representative Brisson, representative Glazier.  Thank you Mr. Chairman I want to follow representative speciality that point he applauded Josh and Jesus, I equally applaud American airlines and do power Microsoft and Lenovo for their success but some of it also comes at tax payer expense, they are great profit institutions of business institutions but our budget is literred not in this state but other states and the nation, with corporate assistance, so representative Brisson point is a good one really has to be a larger discussion about what we target and how we target it but I wonder if we really want to start that larger discussion over $6600 Wait for small retailer and I don't think this is the bill that raises seriously that issue outside of the broader context unless we're willing to raise it on all of the other so I turned this sort of the results of what $6600 might be, and it's directs me the arguments being made about the incredible Medicaid budget issues we have hospitals health care and if this small $6600 per retailer in poor and rural parts of the state helps reduce that taxpayer cost also provides small farmers an ability to have an additional market. It strikes me that the slight cost is outweighed by the greater benefit and the larger argument of free market is something we ought to have but not on this bill unless we're willing to have it on all those others. Representative Brisson and Representative Pittman. Thank you Mr. Chair, just at the appropriate time for a favorable report for House Bill 250. We'll come back to you then Representative Pittman, them Representative Farmer-Butterfield then I'm going to go to you Representative Holley for the last comment. Representative Pittman. I guess after what Representative Brisson just said I'm too late because as one who opposes all those things in our budget that Representative Glazier mentioned I was going to offer an unfavorable motion.   We'll take your motion if the first one doesn't pass. Representative Farmer-Butterfield. I give thanks too late because I was going to offer a favorable report and Representative Brisson be to it, I will comment however that, if you look at the history and World War II we had people who could not go into the military because of health problems, and what did we do? We stepped in and we create hospitals in North Carolina, thank you. Representative Holley. Thank you Mr. Chair, and I'd like to thank everybody for their comments and concerns, one point that I would like to bring attention to is that we are not giving this store owners the refrigerators, the refrigerators is put in as a loner over a period of time it will depreciate and at the end of a five year period and then they could buy it at a reduced rate based upon it but we also will be able if it doesn't work in the store we can take that refrigeration out and put it in another location that it possibly can work this is not just giving something to a store owner he has to invest his time and his energy in this it is well we also have along list of local supporters across the state a lot of health advocacy organisations including the food banks and others who are in support of this kind of assistance and feels that this can be, I ask for your support of this bill and I thank you all for your time and the discussion food insecurity in this state of North Carolina want serious discussions, Rep. Brisson for a motion. Thank you Mr. Chair and I certainly appreciate a healthy discussion and you've certainly given everybody a chance to, and I just to remind the forks that before we did have a real therarol discussion it carried, well the same one that spoke against the days kind of spoke against it on the floor so we had strong support coming off the first floor and this bill is not changes that have for,  so this time I would like and to make a favorable report for proposed committee substitute house bill 250 and I'm not sure what it was that. On unfavorable as to the original call to division you've heard I understand you've heard the motion what I'd

ask is all of those in favor of the motion if you would raise your hands please. In the opinion of the chair I will call for the but the I's clearly have it. All in opposed, in the opinion Chair, they the motion passes. We stand, adjourn.