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House | May 14, 2015 | Committee Room | Appropriations: Tranportation

Full MP3 Audio File

Okay committee I've been told it's 15 minutes after session and we do have a quorum. We want to get started. On your left the community this morning we had a head on collision give some water get an order and now to answer your questions on the provisions or questions on any part of the budget as presented this morning during committee meeting. So committee take a couple of seconds and reconsider the questions you were thinking about when you left. And has to be recognized. In order. The Chair intends to have questions, discussion and then amendments after that. So, any questions from the committee? Representative Martin. Thanks very much Mr. Chair, but on the special provisions page six, the vision on outside county council. I believe before we adjourned either the staff or chair has mentioned that currently DOT already has certain authority to work without that council, and this expands that authority. Would the Chair or staff just mind repeating that or clarifying it for me? If I remember right Mr. Bell that or do you have an answer for that? Or Mr get an honor. That will clarify that they can become accountable for all transportation relate, open the debate on transportation, so the project is extended to mortgage  concession claims by department employees and also in take up transportation aspect of imposed all project also they're kind of taken by the department OK, follow up question Mr. Chair?  Follow up. Either for staff or chairs or might have the answer. Have we done a formal look at either the cost savings, or performance improvements, or any other ups or down of the privatization of legal services with DOT have found so far. I know well this bill. To make that kind of issue don't rather make adjustment.  To authorization and so the preliminary data eliminated the data points from which to draw inferences and so the reporting requirement was put in place for it to be quarterly, that has been changed to be a semi annual before they obviously capture more activity and evaluate at that point in time and a question what is the both the reasoning behind that initial move and what's the reason behind this move to further privatize. I cannot remember Vager[sp?] In his discussion but initially discussion I had a couple of years ago was the use of attorney general Attorneys process, to [xx] but for authorization are not sure. Chairman Jeffry [xx] with this in the budget. The reason for it was the Department of Transportation wanted the ability to go outside the Attorney General's office and use attorneys that were say specialized in environmental concerns and so fourth, but it cant be road project, so it's for the amendment [xx] so that's for the case a follow up to that. Follow up.  I know our [xx] does have environmental attorneys. I know a couple of them and I think do they not have folks that can handle workers' comp claims in the AGs office now I don't have an answer to that question. Anyone on staff? there is no way we can, what do you find out? We have to get follow up. Is this provision something the department requested on this? Yes Okay, additional questions at this time? Okay we will combine the next next subject of discussion. If you save your

questions in the discussion we can also do questions during that time discussion or questions Representative Bob Gardner I have a few question and comment about the now the and to make comment about it, that's great, now we just implemented 817 and now I can't find where it is but we're just we're just changing it around and chucking a bunch of it. We don't even know yet whether it's going to work or not and I and do not know what that page was and I don't want to say I don't understand why we're doing that. I do understand why we're doing it because we scored a lot of projects with STI and then a lot of people didn't like the way the scores turned out so now we're going to sell some bonds and we're going to set some projects up outside of STI and we're going to things mobile anyway especially ones that already have air permits and you know to me we're just putting politics back in where we're trying to take a mile and Okay representative Tyn I have you comment to that.  Correct me if I'm wrong representative  but I believe you're referring to the place about 50 million in year two for the bond? Is that accurate befor I comment you and you too.  One at a time spring. Yeah that's free Okay, and we were asked to credit place to understand be physically responsible, should that's the direction later so that's not an indication of moving out of this, we would have to go through the people and both have the senate so we were just making sure that we held that place older in there. The FTI formula adjustments that may also be the portion that you were asking about? The formula is currently 3.0 we are looking at 4.0 work group is currently working on that and they are instructed by 817 to make adjustments as we continue, they actually asked us formally to comment in regards to those specific things as to what we felt as a body would be appropriate in making those decisions and happening anyway, it's not a new direction from this budget or from this body and the chair has felt that the best way to make that comment was to put it to the members of the house as opposed to just making a chair statement and including people on the process we chose on the outside not to make specific requests like change this percentage to this amount, change this percentage to that amount we're simply saying those are some things that we are concerned about and want to make sure are being captured somewhere inside of FTI[sp?] so we wouldn't even be able to predict how it would change any project, Mr Chaplin[sp?] Okay that was [xx] I understand, thank you for that information Okay, further discussion for the take amendments, I've been asked if we are going to have discussions during amendments and I said we are not going to discuss nay questions this time amendment and I believe we have amendment from Representative Torbett, I have seen to have that in front of you I'm missing a feed. I want to get to Representative Mort this time copy of each of this, each one, representative Martin I do have another one I think it is in the works also this is the 2 out of the 49. Yes. [xx] Yes, I forgot the equipment[sp?]. [xx] recommendation of the order, it's up to the Chair. [xx] I've got them all right here.

OK. OK, I've been asked to go in numerical order which makes a lot of sense. If you have before you H97 [xx] 11 D1. Representative Torbett, is recognized to send forward the amendment. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. During our meeting earlier before the recess and before the session break, it was brought to my attention there was some language I thought was in there, it obviously wasn't. So this amended back to the initial intent of the Chair's and things we had during committees earlier in the process about the distribution of additional revenue not just the normal revenue the judicial revenue today pretty much divided among the 100 counties equally to the extent practical and I would move for approval Mr Chair  further motion discussion on the amendment AMA 11 Theme one. Representative Martin. Thank you Mr. Chair, I think I mistook that chairman Torbid said, but I just want to make sure, so I think Mr. Chairman you said that when we talked about the special roads day you described this provision having being there, but it's not there so your member without it? That's correct. That's correct. Okay. amendment.  You're recognized to speak. Thank you very much Mr. Chair. I'd speak against amendment because the concern I had in our discussion day Chairman Torbett had I think cuts along this issue, then without I think we would all agree that it should be goal to ensure that the funds are equitably distributed around the state, but equity like beauty is in the eye of the beholder and the way I read chairman Torbet's amendment here based on how he just described it and also described it this morning, it would to the extend practicable ensure that each county regardless of any other metric, physical size, population size, number of miles or the condition of the roads or anything else we get the same amount of money and I think that we might have different ideas on what equity is but I'd like to think we all agree that that not the most efficient than an invested use for transportation in dollar, I have an amendment later on that will address also, so why the full concept has ensured all parts of the state, we need to be smart about it, I don't think this one does it. Okay, if you have question to the the intent of this is to allocate the incremental additional funds not the entire budget [xx] additional funds it's a natural percentage of the funds that is but [xx] funds to be equal, the other funds are distributed on a [xx] basis. I [xx] thank you.  Okay for the discussion of the bill number amendment 1131 Rep. Bumgardner. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have an issue with allocating an equal amount to every county because some counties obviously don't have the number of rows or people that other counties have, and to do that it's going to water down places that really need more funding and it's going to spend money and my opinion this is my opinion, we are going to spend a lot of money in places that maybe we don't need to be spending as much and it's going to make everybody get less and places where transportation funding needs to be increase it's not going to be. So I really don't support this amendment. For the discussion of the debate on amendment. Amendment is supposed to have a lieutenant I think it's conjecture on one side and what we've talked about as chairs down to the process is that as you just mentioned this is not the entire that is going on as usual, this is just the portion of revenue that was added and dispersed evenly law in 100 counties as applicants if I think that its either the people are not understanding what we are trying to do or just I actually have a contrary position to what we currently have sir. Okay, thank you for discussion

on the debate and the motion adopted the amendment form. What do you mean by verifying amination because of that the funds say it's better be additional revenue generated this provision includes all contracts which are similar. No that is not. I think to change the there is a change in the amendment or just a change. Displaces the amendment and we will come back to it once we have the clarifying language I will tell the men to sponsor. Gentleman. Yeah OK, move to AML 12 D1, also Representative Torbett, Chairman Torbett. Thank you attention it was I guess a missed word that needs to be changed, two words actually. I move to amend the bill on page 13 line 40, I believe in the word management and substituting the word review, and I think that's the title of one of the committee. Need your approval Mr. Chairman I thank you. Any comment about this technical change of the name of the organization? OK further discussion, further debate? All opposed please say Aye. Aye. Opposed No. Amendment carries OK, next amendment the Chair has is AML 13 B2, Representative the Chair recognizes you, to [xx]. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I move to amend the Money Report on Page K2-113 got it there, and the reality is that as I look at transportation it appears to me that we could possibly help our rural areas if we were to take a little bit, to in fact ensure that we are concerned about public transportation in those areas. As I sipped[sp?], it just appears to me that the possibility of being able to amend this budget look forward to taking a little from the resurfacing and providing for some of our rural areas to have a way forward for public transportation, particularly as we try to develop jobs so that people will be able to get to and from them Representative Martin? Thank you Mr. Chair. This amendment doesn't do anything for my district but I've been deputized by Representative Baskerville, he does have the role he says this's a good amendment that will help folks get around in this district so please in favor and on behave of representative Martin and I support it myself. Because of the chance having to sponsor. Thank I think the we respect the ladies and amendment here, but we look early into this and I don't think nobody anymore from any person they were heavily in support of the rule, and they have a transit then Representative Shepherd was passing them over the last two, three years now so I would ask that has said that some of those concerns have been addressed, and that there is Respectfully, another on the amendment. Further discussion for the debate all in favor. I assume Representative Terry moves for adoption. I will move for adoption based on the fact that I think there is a need to show good faith to our rural neighbors. Thank you Representative, and again you heard the motion, and all in favor say Aye. Aye. Opposed No? No. The Noes have it, the amendment is not adopted. OK, my numbers seem to be out of order, so I will be leafing through the program momentarily. OK, I'm not seeing a 14. Is there a 14?

 The next one I have is 15. Look, Mr. Chairman. [xx] No, yours is not the only [xx] OK.   Mr. Chairman, that's it deals with the same issue I think, the  displaced them and deals with all sorts of obviously have you all here. Lieutenant 15B1. Yes sir. So are asked what to do with it oh and Tine asked anything but I just want to make the Chair aware that that deals with exactly the same provision that Chairman Torbit's displaced amendment doesn't matter to me how you want to handle it. I just wanted to make sure you knew that. So you would like to take this up afterward. I would defer to Chairman Torbett in his records. The chairman Tor do have any opinion on that? I would take an hour like it matters not, OK despite long with the more amendment to be taken back afterward, Next amendment is Representative Martin AML[sp?] B2. Representative Martin, you're recognized to send forth your amendment. Thank you very much Mr. Chair my moment deals for special reason on page two line 2-6 and there are a couple of concerns I have with that provision as it's written right now the first concern is its reliance on average daily I'm sorry let's see on the data usage and my concern is that it will rely on data that just take in account from the pit traffic opposed to overall load on the road and probably the better measure would be to look at the load on load throughout the arena not just on certain pit days coz that's very irrelevant to the cost. So, I think we don't need to have that [xx]. The other concern I have is the is given on line six to hurricane evacuation routes, which without a doubt are important to our state, but we've got that sort of issue and other types of disasters we have to say, and I think the processes set up to already consider thinks like hurricane for long with other pressing needs to, and so there's no need to go and catify[sp?] giving special preference to that. So for those reasons so I think it be best just to delete the whole section County, Representative Torbitt. Thank you. First I"m a little bit confused. I'm holding two amendments and one of them voted in from Representative Martin and they seem to be directly contrary to each other so when one is asking and that would remove it and another one is asking that change it. I just say that we don't support this amendment mr chairman We are looking at AML 16 B2 at this time, OK. Representative Tine. Need to say the safety formula doesn't actually take those things to refer to. And that's why we are in the football point. What point of vaque[sp?] will ask for whether of not we won it, it's taken so we are asking that question directly, and the pick average daily traffic data just to inform that takes in excactly the concerns that you expressed, and to the exclusion of the pick which if when we are in committee was presented by DOT, this isn't just an area that may have judges during the year from tourism for example, but it could be that certain roadways during November and December, high traffic congestion that disrupts traffic considering to do business due to being around a mall for example. So it takes into account the movement of traffic throughout the year during the times that have particular issues also and just ask them to consider it again, not in any particular way but right now those considerations are not been sign of formula right now, so I ask that you support the amendment  OK, oppose the amendment I think Chairman Torbett perhaps need a little clarification on my approach to this given the extremely limited time we had to get amendments done and not really engage any discussion I felt it necessary to have a plan A and plan B something

we frequently do here as legislators in the general assembly, so that's the reason why there are two amendments in case plan A does not work. Plan A I think, they are just to allow better considerations of the full vote on road and also to ensure that all potential emergency [xx] and disasters are given equal consideration, and so that's why I'd urge it's adoption. Had a moment of personal comment whatever that's called in it's official dialect, had a little known island myself and my town is 7, 500 permanent residents is 35-40, 000 during the season, so again tourism seasonal count is important to us whether it results in more roads, more lanes so be it, but it is important to our town as far as a lot US where I come from, just a personal comment on that. Attention for the amendment and I will stand on the move for its adoption, and before the discussion motion. All in favor say aye. Opposed No. The nos have it, the nos do have it and the amendment is not adopted. Next amendment I have in order is AMS17D1. Can I get a copy of the amendment, Mr. Chairman? I have two copies. recognized to send forth this amendment. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. This is just didn't think there was some small chance you all might not adopt my first amendment in part because the concerns you expressed about average the y load on balance in other parts. So this amendment addresses my second concern the mandate to include the improvement of hurricane evacuation routes, but then gone is the fact that in fact there are plenty of other potential disasters across our state, and it adds in one of particular concern, which is the possibility of an incident at one of our nuclear power plants which hurricane is going to involve the necessity to move large numbers of folks from an area. So it seems to make sense if you're going to consider hurricanes which are do think that we need to consider that we also look at nuclear power plant evacuation routes. Thank you. Any comments from the chairs or anyone else? And another personal comment it just so happens not only do I live an an island but I live about eight miles from a nuclear plant in South Port and about nine miles from the biggest ammunition depot[sp?] on the East Coast so we got it all covered.  We couldn't have that in Okay, when you call me on the amendment, I assume [xx] adaption. Yes sir. Okay on the favor of the [xx] on the favor say Aye,  Aye, opposed No, The [xx] Ayes have it. The amendment is not adapted. are we ready to take up AML 11 in, it's on its way what other amendments do I have, I don't see [xx] shall we have a replacement [xx] we don't have any other members after 17?   [xx] The Chair is consulting with a stash[sp?] [xx] so you have 15 and you have a 11. And we're going to take out 15 out of 11 [xx] that Bill has it got an amendment and for the deadline but it has gotten stuck, I think did not in traffic ironically, [xx] but never mind. Okay, you and I have amendment. So discussing on the bill. Is anyone discussing on the bill of question on the bill from MAL[sp?] 11.

Okay we'll have recess for five minutes, hopefully we'll have amen[sp?] allowed in here okay to remain the active session we have amendment before us vast, section 11 version three, representative Torbit to represent amendment, thank you Mr. Chairman, it's pretty much what we talked about a minute ago, it makes certain that it's not one big lump of resurfacing that they glump typical normal resurfacing been done according to the house always been done this is just the additional grow on revenue to focus on of county were like to the extent practicable okay further discussion for opposing the discussion okay. Further discussion. The motion those in favor say aye, all opposed no all opposed no the aye's have it none opposes anything else? Rep. Martin. Mr. Chair, I think as will Rep. before this amendment I've done reflection to reflect for the same reason I got aim of 20 versus one. Is that? We will replace 15 with 20.  Email 20 version one, you're recognized to send forth your amendment. Thank you, Mr. Chair. The horse is almost dead here but let me give one last whack, produce I'm sure this decision by the official, in effect we debate. It is not anytime Vote on each regarding the population size or contested roads gets to pin him out but instead it's based on [xx] and manufacturing. Okay. Any comment, from the committee? Discussion? Okay, you've heard the motion. All in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed say no No. Noes have it, it's not adopted. OK, any further amendments? Staff, you may as well forward in time. OK, we move to approval, I'm going to have to help with the motion, approval of the House Appropriations Committee Report, here we go. Here we go, thank you. Just reading from the script from Professor Cameron. Killing[sp?] someone[sp?] And yet [xx] OK, made a transition [xx] adapt the Appropriations Committee four[sp?] as amended and further members of staff be authorized to make technical corrections and confirm the changes related to their various amendments adopted. Mr. Chair. Yes. Forgive me this is my fault, I was working something outside. Are we considering it a motion to adopt the budget? And I'm asking for that motion I just read.   Mr. Chairman? Moved by Representative Torbett Any further discussion? Representative Martin? Thank you Mr. Chair I may not be surprised that I do have discussion on it, and I'll first start by conseer[sp?] appreciation to the chairs for taking with it's truly a [xx] and I know it's very difficult and arduous step in trying to figure out the way forward from transportation due[sp?]. There are no easy answers there and there are some answers there that are going to satisfy everybody and the chair has they've taken some punitive and bold steps in this budget and deserve to be commended for the work the they've taken steps that assembly has not been broken up so I really appreciate you all willing to out there and put a [xx] case to do that, I figured that I absolutely, sincerely I don't know the right methods here.

I expect that that's the actual methods that we do reducing the gas tax but increasing fees so forth. I expect that that will get substantial further debate as it goes forward, so I'm going to try not to spend too much time doing that now. I do have other concerns about this budget and let me at least try to [xx] when I tell this committee of the true budget in our road one of them passed [xx] to get back the support, when I was a minority in this committee I voted for 4 candidate budgets but we dropped the bill, republican chairs did so I was fully prepared to vote for them but well I thought I could, and [xx] where I felt I can't and this is one that I that I can't vote again. I am concerned that we are taking steps away from some progress that was made previously on February on getting the politics out of transportation syndicate. To call this a politics prison transportation, but this would not be perfectly and I'm not going to do it, but I do think we're stepping back, taking terrible steps back from the good step forward in that direction, but the General simply did. Thank you. I am one way we have done that is as in the message you've chosen to try to increase revenue it's resulted in some panic loss to try to increase revenues, it's resulted in some funny laws to the STI process and that didn't have to happen in general we are taking this whole step again and I regret that I think also this project in the end fails to be a 21st century budget for the state of North Carolina.  I want to commend you all because I think your are all taking from big steps to catch up to the end of the 20th century which is something that I think I can be fairly accused of not having achieved when in chair so legitimate praise for that but the end we're not making the solid investment that we need to be making in other forms of transit that will be effective in certain parts of state in reducing congestion and moving our people also I think we'll all agree sincerely that we need a multimillion transportation network that has goods and people coming into our port get them on a road network across the state when to certain areas we need to get them on buses and trains to get them efficiently there we need to have all forms that despite this we've makes some great progress and some of those areas but not enough progress in others so let me conclude there again with present chairs for their cut and willingness to and make some really significant grown up decisions here that have not been made in the past but regrettably this is not a budget that I can support. Representative Martin. Are the comments to representative  Torbitt. Would you like to talk about the budget? Any Chairs we are on recess for about five minutes thank you for being back in session after recess before we left I state the motion not sure in my action may be motion as you told presentation committee report adopt appropriations Committee report as amended and further members of staff are authorized to make technical corrections confirming changes and various amendments adopted, led by Representative Torbit. All in favor say Aye, opposed No, The Ayes have it thank you ladies and gentlemen.