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House | May 12, 2015 | Committee Room | Education: Universities

Full MP3 Audio File

Call the committee on house education universities to order, as always a little bit of house keeping first we are joined by our sergeant at arms today Mr Young Bay Mr. Bilmose, Mr. J Marine[sp?] and Cory Bryson. We also have a few pagers with us this week, Kathy Malone sponsored by Chris Malone, Elly Ratchcliffe sponsored by Sarah Stevens and Zachary Ropes sponsored by Representative Paul Stem. We also have a school group with us today we will recognize them briefly we we have John Paul the II high school students with us today if you can stand and give us a little wave. Welcome to the house committee on education universities. Without further ado, we're going to go ahead and move forward with our first Bill, there is a PCS on this Bill, we can have a Motion to accept the PCS, Representative Collins, thank you very much, and without further ado, Representative Elmore you're cleared to present House bill 602. Thank you Mr. Chairman. What House Bill 602 is, is an evaluation of dealing with our teacher pipeline. As we know just from statistics that we're seeing that in we're feeling the effects of it a little bit right now but in the next five years. We are going to have some issues with the number of teachers in the class room and what this bill will do is look at current programs that are happening in evaluating their progress and their successes and also their shortcomings dealing in a different pathways for a person going into education programs. If you look at section two of the bill you can see that the number one deals with preparatory program that is targeting high achieving high school students in trying to recruit them into college of aides, number two is a pilot that will deal with recruiting students that are on the campuses and may have not thought about going into teaching, but trying to recruit them into the colleges and evaluating that process. Number three is looking at one of the universities that does an MIT program, that's where the student goes a additional year to receive a master's degree of teaching. Number four deals with what's called the two plus two program with that is a recruitment of community college students to the university schools have had, looking at our alternative listening centre, that's our lateral entry centers and also looking at NC inspire at the University of Charlotte. This valuation will be done by a third party and they will be giving annual reports during their three year study and I think that this would give us a good data and information as we work to prepare to try to solve this future problem. Thank you Representative Elmore, are there any questions from the committee? Seeing none do have a motion to accept the PCS? Let me raise a question Representative Michel On section one on and a special donation dontion to Harper island state to hire somebody is that what I'm reading in there? Representative Elmore What it deals with representative Michel is we currently we don't have a program that exist at all in universities is trying to recruit students that are on campus into the education programmes so to try to study that issue we have to create a power and that position is for that powerd because we have nothing that exists that we can evaluate Follow up Yes I guess my question is how does how does this tallywith was section two of the bill. I guess that's what I'm trying to get at That's what it sounds like you're trying and you do get it that I'm involved in section two That's correct if look at section two number two one university program that folks is on recruiting undergraduates students and to teach prepatory programs, the teach here education marketing pallet that's what that funding in section one is for follow up. Follow. So the program does not exist at this chart this will put the program into existence is that correct? That is correct because there is no such program that exists at all in the university system. Are you sure? Primarily recruiting kids of campus into the colleges via. Representative Insko.

Thank you Mr. Chairman and I'd like to either ask the bill sponsor or staff to give an update on the Friday institute kind of research they do. Representative Almod would you like to answer that or the first step? I'm being told the trip starting with the front institute is here. Mrs Charles if you can come to the mike and state your name for the record and if you would like that question repeated Hey, my name is Philip [xx], I'm the Director of Policy Research at Florida[sp?] Institute I think you the kind of work we do, we have been a lot of work for the last several years on evaluating major state for instance, the use of [xx] funding across the state develop the learning plan to support the work that these legislature asked for. Actually the items that Representative Elmore has listed the kind of thing we evaluate on regular basis. Sure Follow up Representative Insko. Representative Brody. Thank you Mr. Chairman. Could you tell me why we need to allocate this money to a third party I just kind of read through this and I guess each one of these, why wouldn't each one of this do their own evaluation of each one of this one through six here, instead of having a third party do it. Representative Raymond. I think if you look at the goal of the study it's not only looking at quantitative data, it's looking at qualitative, meaning we're trying to really see what it is making the program successful just not the statistics associated with it. General administration has done an excellent job on showing us the problem statistically this takes it a step further at analyzing this programs and seeing the quality measures in it and that was the goal of using the third party. Follow up any additional questions from the committee?  Yeah I got. Representative Michel. You leave me alone and I have to figure out something and this goes back really to section one this is to recruit under graduate students you are going to recruit from any institution undergraduate student are you going to just limited to undergraduate student at ASU representative Barrymore well the goal since the program this nature doesn't exist at all, is to try it their like we've done with the other looking at particular program at the with other universities see what the success are of it and then hopefully we can take those successes and duplicate the program follow up, Representative Curty. Thank you Mr. Chairman, Representative or more, I'm trying to get my hands around this, this is new and I applaud you for what I think you're trying to do but I'm not sure, first of all a couple of questions if you don't mind Mr. Chairman. There [xx] right now our universities do not recruit in any way students into the teaching cell. Representative Maymall, you're free to answer her series of questions. What you find is when you're looking at the offerings, they're scholarships and different programs that are available but many of them are totally unutilized because there is nobody connecting the dots for the students that the program exist. Okay, the follow up. Why did you chose the college of education at Appalach? We tried looking at the different programs from different regional areas of the State, so if you look at the list collectively, you see that we have picked a program that's in the eastern part of the state, we picked a program that is in an urban area, we've picked a program that is at a historically black university to try to. With the issues we're trying to look at, especially with where these students go, with issues of lack of teachers going into rural areas for example, that's the reason why we try and place them problems in different areas of the State, to track the students where they go through [xx] Okay, and I'm absolutely these are friendly questions, just trying to drill it down. So I guess what you've done is, you've singled out [xx] to host this power program, and then $91,

000 will go to them to set the program up with staffing, etc. and then the 700, 000 total over two years will go to the Friday center and through this power there or is this two separate things resign them for power then the Friday senator is going to go look the six entities across the state. So, there're two components. Apple Action knows nothing to do with the Friday study Okay, so and I go back to my first question and the is why was Applelauchion[sp?] chosen to be the power and not some of our other institutions like you and say Charlotte are you in St. Chapel Hill or NC State or whatever. Looking at all the factors that we were trying to look for, we also tried spreading them geographically so if you look at the program that are being evaluated we got one in East Carolina, we have the one at Upland state that requests questions revolve around. We have one here in [xx] at [xx] that's being evaluated we have one at North Carolina A&T and then we have [xx] which are in different places and NC inspired the University of Charlote[sp?] we tried spreading the map geographically. What's the goal? Final question. At the end of this two-year period the power ends in two years, correct? And the Friday[sp?] institute funding ends and what is it that the end result is that you're trying to accomplish the goal is we understand that we're going to have a teacher shortage and that we can't just depend on the traditional model of a student going to a college of [xx] for four year period and coming out. We're just not getting enough students that way. This is evaluating program that look at at it in different way and hopefully after the information we collect, if we need to do a big program, we can and we know what we're doing or if we could duplicate programs we can, or we can back fill existing programs with some twigs to help solve the issue. I'm sorry Mr. Chairman, won't follow that. [xx] Have you, I'm sure you've worked wit the universities about this concept? Yes. Representative Willyham Thank you Mr. Chairman, part of my question has been answered because having to ask what was the reason for the electing Appolaunch[sp?] state but the other part is that see as you say we are trying to get different universities in different parts of the State. And the East you have a East Carolina, so I'm interested in the fact one of the schools that seem to be having some difficulties and who was the traditionally teachers was Elizabeth City State University so I would think that would be a better choice than East Carolina. The Chair rules you out of order. I'm kidding. Still challenged by ECU, I'm kidding. Proceed with your question, take that under advise is it So I'm just and especially with the location of the city, so far east there and so I've it'll just, as a question, I guess the question is that, looking at it was, is the issue considered pondering with what [xx] Yes, we looked at all the existing programs and issue you this I'll give you some details on the [xx] of scholarship. This is a scholarship that is targeting high achieving high schools students, it's actually a model of the teaching fellows tight program, there is only two schools that still do that tight program internally and Elizabeth Steady[sp?], Elizabeth Steady[sp?] State does not offer that tight program. Follow up. Representative Insko. Thank you Mr. Chairman, so there are five programs all ready in existence then you are adding the six that apparachen state and then doing the evaluation of all six. So I guess the last both questions maybe they are related so there hasn't been an evaluation of these other five programs that are done and could you just say a word about whether or not the enrolment at the

schools of education are dropping off and and or have these programs is there any evidence less which one know whether there is evidence of this programs actually increased yet, could you comment then on the decline and enrolment of the schools education throughout the system or after ration. Representative almod There has been decline in the enrolment system wide the general administration has told us that we have less teachers coming out of the pipeline than we did before, but staff can may be address that more specifically. I'm not sure I can speak on the specifics, but some of the evaluations that will be done will looking at that type of information for instance on page two lines 10 and 11 the Florida institute is directed to study the number of applicants participants and progress sort 100% participant capacity so will definitely be examined under the course of the the three year study. Follow up. But the board governors has not considered closing any of our schools of education or have they? OK. Representative Brown. Thank you Mr. Chair. Just two question if I'm permitted for Representative Velma. Sure. Could the Universe Charlote[sp?] for not conducting a study like this? That's question one and then can I go ahead with question two? Are you assured of funding the money for this we're looking at right at a million dollars? Representative Elmore, I will say this Representative Bradley currently there's no referral to appropriation it is at the Chair's digression that we will create a recommendation for a serial referral through appropriate. Should this bill be passed out of this convent. Representative Elmore you're free to answer. What about the first question Will the universities themselves be able to conduct this? Can they not do it on their own? Well they're doing some of this work but more from a statistical nature this is actually developing into the [xx] qualities of the program. What are they doing recruitment wise? What are they doing with their marketing? How are they, what components of their program are keeping the students? What they are doing is a little bit different that's the most specific tracking that the fraud will look into. Follow up. Representative Michhel[sp?] want to ask the panel a question Mr. Chairman since ESU and ECSU [xx] CCU ought to be considered in that too but you answer my question. Are you going to make a referral [xx]. Yes sir. Thank you sir One final question. Representative Insko. Well I'm ready to make a motion Fantastic So I move of approval for the proposed committee unfavorable to the original with a referral to appropriations. Members you have heard the movement before you, all those in favor say aye Aye All those oppose no. Congratulations Representative of Elmo your bill passes. Next up we have House Bill 844, Representative [xx] and your entourage is free to present your bill. Thank you Mr. Chairman, colleagues there's no denying teacher shortages across the state DPR reports that the teacher turnover due to attritional retirement habors an excess of 14%. In the stem areas there's short falls are even more dramatic the [xx] journal reported a couple of weeks ago in a story that a class in a local middle school, a school that an A rating on our A-F scale is now on its third maths teacher of the year. The reason, retirement and inability and an inability to find replacement teachers. The bill you have in front you the STEM Teacher Forgivable Loan Program seeks to remedy this issue. The program provide forgivable loans to our best high school seniors who are committed to working as teachers in stem areas and education. In exchange, these outstanding students provide service in the public schools of North Carolina. For the next 45 seconds or so, I'll go through and tell you how the program works. Scholarship would be for North Carolina residents only. We're going to have stringent academic requirements, those requirements will include a look at SAT scores, ATC scores, high school GPA's. The loan would be for $5000 a year, however in the bill the intent of that

loan would be to cover, as close as it's practicable, an amount equal to the abs tuition fees and on campus, basic campus housing, meal plan expenditures. How far above that $5000 would go, will be up to the authority which will run the program. The loans will be forgiven if you teach four years within six and the idea behind that is that some of those students would want to unnecessarily need to get a master's degree, a two years master degree and so we'll give them six years to do that and then come back and teach for four. Also the loan will be forgiven if you teach for three consecutive years in a school that is deemed to be a low performing school. One of the other people that was important to myself and the bill sponsor was the idea of priority hiring and this means that school systems of the Africans where the applicant is domiciled when they receive the scholarship, that school system will have the first priority at hiring this new teacher, this new teacher who spokes in stem areas immediately after graduation. We want our smaller Counties in that regard to have a cahnce retain these talented students that they were responsible for development, we feel like that's good for the local community we feel that's good for families in those areas and we feel like that's good policy for the state. The program calls for a 2.9 million dollar appropriation year one and that would be recurring. Colleagues as our state and our nation is in a most trans formative moment the new manufacturing would come in the form of coding and in fields that start with nano and bio. There are 100, 000 stem jobs available right now That cannot be filled because we don't have students who're comfortable and competent in the areas of science and mathematics. The number of jobs available in the stem area is only going to grow. We need our best stem teachers growing, our science and maths based at home so that North Carolina can claim our fair share of that growing economy. Mr. Chairman.   A little longer than 45 seconds but thank you Representative Hannes, any question from the committee Representative Mitchell. I have these scholarships available for across the board and internal of the HOD colleges and university, both private and statel. I think the intent of the authority would be that they're available for the state schools and I believe the authority will decide which of the colleges and university get this program. Pretty much based on past teacher education long distance programs we had in the state. Follow-up? This is not a program for an institution this is for students going to an institution. and that's where my question is, is that student limited to state university or is it across the board the state and private other colleges. At the intend is that the students will be limited to state universities. Follow up representative Browdy. Thank you Mr. Chairman. One of the glaring things that came out of this and the bill analysis and the last couple of time out there, is that we are giving students a choice of four years at a public school at basically anywhere, but three years as one where you go with low performing school and I just wrote a note t myself low wealth schools which maybe the same thing or maybe different why is it that you choose the the four years and three years in that order versus flipping them around or even actually would question why you came four years any public school we are going to target this low well though perfecting schools why not just have it and in those particular areas that it doesn't seem like there is too much of a problem speaking for my own experience and I'm at Union county we don't have a problem attracting quality teachers there, and we're rewarding just somebody that go to continue on with the school system like that but I have my other county is just the absolute opposite and we really need those. So boil it down to this, why did you put the in that series and the other thing is would you consider it more effective if we would just target the low

wealth, low performing schools in this one.  Representative Haynes, I think I understand and what we were trying to do is come to to a sweet spot to meet the concerns that we were getting from folks who we're trying to figure out how they let everyone win, some of these scholarship money. So one of the things that we were having an issue with when we spoke about it was the idea that students from low performing in a low wealth counties would get this scholarship and then would not return home, would not come back and teach them, this was a complain that we heard constantly with the teaching fellows programme that folks were leaving low performing counties and one of them is Showand, Durham and wouldn't go back,  wouldn't go back to some these other places. And so we tried to address that by through a priority, hiring piece, at least to say hey, you'll get first crack, if you have an opportunity, you have a good opportunity in steminary for those kids you'll get first crack and then we also tried to address it as best as we could by doing the three year when they went saying, "Listen. " and on top of that if you're not from a low-performing county if you would choose to go into a low performing school will give you a year of grace on your program. I think it's perhaps not a perfect solution, I understand exactly what your concern is, but at that point hat was the best compromise solution that we could go in. But certainly I believe the bill sponsors will be open to looking at better ways to flush this out. Follow up? Representative Corney. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, just a couple of comments and then a question. First of all a lot of school districts across this country have taken stem and turned it into sterm because they've added the R, it's a critical component to education, so I just had to get that [xx] Also the other editorial I was saying is, I'm sorry one of those who felt like Teaching Fellows Program was an incredible program and I hope that in our infinite wisdom we return that program I know that there's a bill that will be looking at that. I understand what you're trying to do here and I have the same questions about the low wealth counties but I do have one question for you to define for me, what is, what do we consider in the statute as exemplary high schools.  Representative Hanes. In the bill we put some minimum standards on there, one of them were the minimum 3.0 GPA be considered for the program, there was not a FAT or ACT parameter put in place, we felt like we'd get that once we, if we were successful with the bill the authoritie would sit down and decide what those parameter would be certainly those are going to vary from school to school depend on there stands after school which have the ACT and GPS spread typically what we want to make sure though is that we have kids who can become men perform, have the components in and the stem areas and ultimately we'll be able to not just practice and other teacher evaluations [xx] would be able to thrive student teaching in class room. So we have these former programs that we've looked at where the average SAT at the high school were 3.4-3.5 with 11-1200 SAT scores on average across the board and so there is going to be some bearings across the board but for the most part, we're going to let the authority sit down and figure that piece out. Follow up. Representative Willingham. Thank you Mr. Chairman. I have a question Just a comment, but the minimum standard you say is 3.0 to get into the program. Now most students who graduate from high school with 3.0 is not going to have some problem in getting some type of scholarship assistance. And I'm just wondering is that really what we want to do, I mean we creating more money for those who probably are going to get a leeway. In another hand students who are in the program right now, what it look at in the sense that more of the

students that're in this term program are going programs that exist now. Are they 3.0 students or are they 2.5. Or 2.6 average students. And if we look at, I think if we look at our teachers today, I'm not sure if we took a survey and look at the teachers who are teaching and even some of those who are some how final stages had a 3.0 average when they went to college Representative Hans Thank you Representative Willingam first of all I would say there there're a lot of 3.0 in the State who do not receive scholarships. Second what I would say is this program admittedly it's for exceptional kids. It is for kids who ave shown a great deal of academic argument in high school and who have became committed and want to teach back in our where we are needed, where they are needed right now in the specialized fields and so in that regard I understand your concern but the program is absolutely set up for for exceptional kids and we need to get those kids and keep them in all public schools as much as possible in State of North Carolina. Follow up. Follow up. We are in this committee I think note one go for scholarship for high achieving students. So I'm just wondering how we just pounding on for those at the top and may be we need to take a look at those in the middle. Representative Hans Representative William I spent a lot of years working on policy school trying to help kids go to college and one way that I would explain this is to say that when you set out a scholarship program like this the minimum GPA requirement. It pushes more kids to work towards that GPA requirement, we don't have a perfect background on GPA's in schools this is not the we have a certain number of high achieving, a certain number of low achieving any kid who want to work hard enough to get a 3.0 and get the scholarship has the opportunity to do so. So, we're setting and the buyer said hey look if you want to get into this field where this jobs are available we want to employ you, or you want to teach math you got to do well in math in high school you got to do well in your science classes in high school follow up. Yes. Let me in another life I used to work for an industry and I run a program which was sponsorship program for large industry and we recruited engineers, accountants, chemists and this council program we had it was for people great on 2.5 and up and we found  that these young people did an excellent job and these people now engineers, and doctors and doing well so I'm not sure if there's correlation on this was success. This program with setting the level at 3.0 so, I'm just asking  that we consider looking at something just a little different, if you don't mind. Representative Heinz. Thank you Representative [xx] representative [xx] I will tell you and I believe our bill sponsors would agree that we will support to that legislation, we absolutely agree that there is certainly talent out there, that has not necessarily been mined, at this point it needs mining and I will certainly support you no legislation like that absolutely. Follow up? Representative Brody Thank you Mr. Chairman, in light of the fact you have to go to appropriations to get grilled again for your amount, is it imperative you've done your own research on the bill so you probably we know what we need to have in order to get it through, but is it imperative that the in order to forgive the loan that we need to go and allow them to go anywhere including high well schools or anything, is it imperative that that part of that part needs to be in that bill or would you actually consider possibly removing that part and just concentrating this effort on low well flowing performing schools, Rep. Hanes thank for the question that's not necessarily a question that I've considered and pondered in terms of how that would have impact the appropriation. For the bill, I'm assuming that was the question. I haven't considered that that question but certainly it's

something that would be all the bill sponsors would be willing to sit down with you and talk about before we make that step. Follow up, any additional questions from the committee? Representative Elmore. Motion at the appropriate time. I believe that time has come Representative Elmore, there is a serial referral to Appropriations. OK, I make a motion for a favorable report for House Bill 844 which serial[sp?] referral to Appropriations. Members, you've heard the motion before you, all in favor say Aye. Aye. All opposed No, the Ayes have it. Congratulations Representative Hanes, and we are adjourned.